Watch out on the road tonight. Wide Load on the way to Croker

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Just what has Leinster done recently

They provided a semi-finalist in last year's AI series; Ulster didn't.  Apart from (arguably) Tyrone, Uslter football is on the wane - how anyone can present it otherwise is a mystery to me.

Surely it has to be based on more than just the previous year (we did f*ck all in 2004 and won again in 2005)? Say, in the last five, what has Leinster actually won? What did he say that was factually incorrect? What unwarranted jibes did he throw?

[Jinxy]

Ulster has had its day. Leinster is on the rise!

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Ulster has had its day. Leinster is on the rise!

That may indeed be the case, but until Leinster actually wins something (semi-finals don't count!) it will always be a 'maybe'! 

[Jinxy]

Leinster has one plenty down through the years. These things go in cycles. The Ulster cycle is simply coming to an end.

[Star Spangler]

The Ulster cycle is simply coming to an end

Winners of 2 of the last three All Ireland minor titles, not to mention current Hogan Cup holders.  There's probably a wee bit of life left yet.

[Jinxy]

I think Down have proven conclusively that minor All-Irelands are no great indicator of future senior success. The fact that a couple of different Ulster schools have won the Hogan Cup in the last few years doesn't mean much for the particular county they came from. The Ulster teams seem to win it once then disappear. Pats Navan seem to win it, or at least make the final, every 2nd year! What does that say about Meath football?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Doesn't matter what you, or anyone else, says Jinxy, titles must be won. Your opinion is that Ulster football is in decline; you may be right but, equally, you may be wrong. If any team has a recent track record of converting underage success to senior success, it's ourselves.  QED.

[Romeo]

what the f**k was he on about wrt Deccie Browne

I thought that was disgraceful too.  

He might know a bit about Ulster football, but other than what he sees on the telly, he seems to know very little about the other provinces.  He'd fit in well on the board so.  

excellent!!!!

[Jinxy]

Doesn't matter what you, or anyone else, says Jinxy, titles must be won. Your opinion is that Ulster football is in decline; you may be right but, equally, you may be wrong. If any team has a recent track record of converting underage success to senior success, it's ourselves.  QED.

I agree that it's great to win these underage titles, but the fact of the matter is that a senior team may get more lads from a minor team that were knocked out of their provincial championship than another team would get out of an All-Ireland winning team. Thats the way it is with minors. How many players have we seen at minor level and thought to ourselves, "He'll make a serious senior footballer" and they just fade away into obscurity. I think the term "conveyor belt" is misused on a regular basis. I personally do not think that the players Tyrone have introduced from minor teams subsequent to the great Cormac McAnallen led team are anywhere near as good as that vintage. Kerry, Dublin and Meath have probably all gotten more quality players through from minor since then despite having none of Tyrones underage success. It's odd, but you often see lads come through that were in the top 2/3 outstanding players on their minor team despite winning no trophies, quicker than you will see lads from All-Ireland winning teams come through. From 2002, we got Sheridan, Farrell and King through. From last year O'Rourke has come through already. In between, Harrington, Byrne and Ward have come through. All are now established intercounty footballers (even though big Joe has gone walkies). So Tyrone may in fact only get one or two lads off each minor team if you are lucky. Pretty much just like everyone else. The conditions that created your current team, i.e. largely backboned by players from Cormacs minor team no longer exist.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Thought it was a reasonable enough show. Worth watching anyway. Pretty much what was called for - some decent analysis by serious pundits and few enjoyable enough features. The highlight was definately the Sligo kitman. McHugh was ok but as mentioned, there was no need for the comment about Declan browne changing counties. Also thought the Monaghan feature was ok apart from the hype about Monaghan "bringing the Ulster final back to Clones." The game was fixed for Clones since before a ball was kicked in the Ulster championship.

He might know a bit about Ulster football, but other than what he sees on the telly, he seems to know very little about the other provinces.  He'd fit in well on the board so.

In fairness there's plenty of pundits who know little enough about football outside their own province apart from what's seen on the TV. GIven that most pople try to get to as many of their own club and county matches as they can, and maybe another game or two in the provincial championship, its near enough impossible to be fit to put in the time and effort to attend games in other provinces.

[magpie seanie]

Jinxy - well said about the minprs thing. Never ceases to amaze me how people think you need winning minor teams in order to win anything at senior level. I had this very same conversation with a fool on Tuesday nigt and no matter how I dumbed it down and refrained from using words of more than one syllable he still didn't get it. He was basically telling me he couldn't understand how Sligo had won a Connacht Senior title without minor or U-21 success and that it would never happen again without us winning an underage title. Needless to say he was wasting his time trying to piss on my bonfire!

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

The conditions that created your current team, i.e. largely backboned by players from Cormacs minor team no longer exist.

All I'm saying here is that underage success may lead to senior success, no more no less, and it's by no means a prerequisite. Which 'conditions' are you referring to here, i.e., everything that was in place for Cormac's team is still in place, though the players have changed, but they're still winning medals. That doesn't mean to say we'll have the same success, but neither does it mean to say we're in decline.

[paddypastit]

Seanie, while agree that the point isn't absolute, it's not that long ago that our County Board - Mr Murphy was quite publicly saying exactly the same thing and was empahising that the use of the county's budget would reflect that.

[Jinxy]

The conditions that created your current team, i.e. largely backboned by players from Cormacs minor team no longer exist.

All I'm saying here is that underage success may lead to senior success, no more no less, and it's by no means a prerequisite. Which 'conditions' are you referring to here, i.e., everything that was in place for Cormac's team is still in place, though the players have changed, but they're still winning medals. That doesn't mean to say we'll have the same success, but neither does it mean to say we're in decline.

The conditions I'm referring to are a senior team that was crying out for a serious injection of new talent. As a result, a large number of that minor team were brought together into the senior set-up, PLUS (and this is very important) the minor manager became the senior manager. He knew the young players inside out and he knew how to get the best out of them. On the players  side, they knew how he wanted them to play the game. As a result an extremely tactically adept, playing/management group came into existence. This was a fairly unique scenario and one that is not likely to occur again any time soon. Also, were it not for the fact that there were a number of players of great character on that famous minor team, they might not have had the success they had at senior level, even with the talent they had available.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Fair enough, though time will tell...