History of soccer in Ireland

[seafoid]

Eg the Ban, the garrisons, GAA oppression , 90s , the money , infrastructure etc

Does anyone know it ?

[From the Bunker]

Was mostly in the North. Teams from Dublin entered competition but it was fixed that they'd never win. Hence the divide....

[seafoid]

Shels won the Northern Irish Cup twice and Bohs won it once before partition.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Maybe if you asked some specific questions?

[seafoid]

How long did the Ban go on for and what were the implications for soccer?

[Rossfan]

"Ban" was removed 1971.

[weareros]

After FAI (Leinster Association) split from IFA in 1921, both associations called themselves Ireland and some players even played for both Ireland teams. The split was over Shels not getting to play Irish cup semi-final in Dublin against Glenavon. FIFA eventually intervened to insist on Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland to distinguish both teams in 1954. Perhaps if they had managed to keep it together during those years, soccer would be like rugby/hockey/cricket/golf and we'd have one association and team. But that's also simplifying things. There's a much stronger Loyalist following of soccer than rugby and other more upper class sports.

[Milltown Row2]

After FAI (Leinster Association) split from IFA in 1921, both associations called themselves Ireland and some players even played for both Ireland teams. The split was over Shels not getting to play Irish cup semi-final in Dublin against Glenavon. FIFA eventually intervened to insist on Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland to distinguish both teams in 1954. Perhaps if they had managed to keep it together during those years, soccer would be like rugby/hockey/cricket/golf and we'd have one association and team. But that's also simplifying things. There's a much stronger Loyalist following of soccer than rugby and other more upper class sports.

Boxing is a sport that doesn't ring with the upper classes, there obviously was nationalist clubs, as mentioned already, but this definitely looks like power and greed in the politics of clubs earning more money..

Maybe those in power in the North were looking for an incident like the Shels one to do it

Anyways, as a spectacle (for me) it isn't great at local level and won't be as the best players will always leave   

[weareros]

After FAI (Leinster Association) split from IFA in 1921, both associations called themselves Ireland and some players even played for both Ireland teams. The split was over Shels not getting to play Irish cup semi-final in Dublin against Glenavon. FIFA eventually intervened to insist on Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland to distinguish both teams in 1954. Perhaps if they had managed to keep it together during those years, soccer would be like rugby/hockey/cricket/golf and we'd have one association and team. But that's also simplifying things. There's a much stronger Loyalist following of soccer than rugby and other more upper class sports.

Boxing is a sport that doesn't ring with the upper classes, there obviously was nationalist clubs, as mentioned already, but this definitely looks like power and greed in the politics of clubs earning more money..

Maybe those in power in the North were looking for an incident like the Shels one to do it

Anyways, as a spectacle (for me) it isn't great at local level and won't be as the best players will always leave   

That's true. Boxing has held it together and those from working class Loyalist backgrounds have represented Ireland proudly at Olympics for example. Although there's been some political agitators arguing for a breakaway.

[Baile Brigín 2]

How long did the Ban go on for and what were the implications for soccer?

1905 to 1971.

The implication was if you wanted to play gaelic games and soccer you did one under a false name and hoped the vigilante committee missed you. I understand by the 60's it was redundant but it fed into a reasonably legitimate feeling that the GAA weren't primarily about sport, but trying to impose their version of Irishness on everyone. And that version was called fascistic.

Personally I think the either or attitude probably cost them players, especially in the cities and large towns and created a sporting culture war that still slightly exists. The GAA was gauche, FF and the priests. Soccer was cosmopolitan and an act of rebellion.

The Hyde incident in 1938 was a dark day for the GAA. He went to an Irish soccer international and was expelled from the GAA as a result. He was both an ordinary member and as President had an honorary title. The GAA effectively told the founder of the Gaelic League he wasn't Irish enough and caused a political storm by trying to dictate to the President what events he could or couldn't represent the office at. Absolute madness.

[Baile Brigín 2]

After FAI (Leinster Association) split from IFA in 1921, both associations called themselves Ireland and some players even played for both Ireland teams. The split was over Shels not getting to play Irish cup semi-final in Dublin against Glenavon. FIFA eventually intervened to insist on Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland to distinguish both teams in 1954. Perhaps if they had managed to keep it together during those years, soccer would be like rugby/hockey/cricket/golf and we'd have one association and team. But that's also simplifying things. There's a much stronger Loyalist following of soccer than rugby and other more upper class sports.

England refused to play any team that played the Free State. FIFA also intervened there.

I think it was Peter Byrnes book that argued that in the 30's and 40's it was soccer that was more nationalistic. They were playing under a tricolour to the new anthem and sticking it to the Brits. It was partially as a reaction to this that saw the GAA 'rebrand' in the late 30's - Hill 60 became Hill 16, Hyde gets expelled and so on.

[weareros]

How long did the Ban go on for and what were the implications for soccer?

The Hyde incident in 1938 was a dark day for the GAA. He went to an Irish soccer international and was expelled from the GAA as a result. He was both an ordinary member and as President had an honorary title. The GAA effectively told the founder of the Gaelic League he wasn't Irish enough and caused a political storm by trying to dictate to the President what events he could or couldn't represent the office at. Absolute madness.

It was shocking but even nationalistic/republicans did not support Hyde. Margaret Buckley who was first female President of Sinn Fein called him the Kings representative in Ireland for attending the soccer game. His fellow Roscommon man was a big critic, Padraig Ó Caoimh who gave his name to PUC. When he died, FG were afraid to enter the Protestant Church and FF opted to stay at home. Truth be told, I grew up not far from his final resting place in sheepwalk, as locals call it, and up until the late 1980s it lay like a derelict grave. But its nicely done up now thanks to EU funds.

[Bord na Mona man]

This book was a good read.
It mainly charts the fall off in the popularity of the League Of Ireland once English soccer started to be beamed into Irish homes.
Also, it deals with how soccer in Ireland has traditionally fallen short when it comes to business and corporate acumen that old monied rugby always had and the GAA developed with the benefits of free education.

There was a good quote from Brian Kerr. "Soccer was a working-class game. It was not for the middle-class Fianna Fáil types... Sport was controlled by the religious and the powerful, whereas those running football had little business acumen... [They] didn't have the knowledge or the foresight to look ahead. I remember being told once the problem with the FAI was that there were too many bicycles chained to their gates."

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stole-Game-Fall-Irish-Soccer/dp/0717140040

[armaghniac]

and the GAA developed with the benefits of free education. T

except among those put in charge of Casement Park.

[AustinPowers]

How long did the Ban go on for and what were the implications for soccer?

The Hyde incident in 1938 was a dark day for the GAA. He went to an Irish soccer international and was expelled from the GAA as a result. He was both an ordinary member and as President had an honorary title. The GAA effectively told the founder of the Gaelic League he wasn't Irish enough and caused a political storm by trying to dictate to the President what events he could or couldn't represent the office at. Absolute madness.

It was shocking but even nationalistic/republicans did not support Hyde. Margaret Buckley who was first female President of Sinn Fein called him the Kings representative in Ireland for attending the soccer game. His fellow Roscommon man was a big critic, Padraig Ó Caoimh who gave his name to PUC. When he died, FG were afraid to enter the Protestant Church and FF opted to stay at home. Truth be told, I grew up not far from his final resting place in sheepwalk, as locals call it, and up until the late 1980s it lay like a derelict grave. But its nicely done up now thanks to EU funds.

Wasn't aware of the  Hyde incident.

Why did they retain  the name of  Hyde Park  if he crossed over  to the dark side?