Man Utd Thread:

[Armagh18]

Pogba was world class for about 20 games a season. That's not good enough for a team with genuine ambitions. He stank the place out rest of the time and was a terrible role model. Dilemma there is someone will always take a chance that he'll eventually knuckle down.

On Carrick, I understand a no 9 on form completely changes the narrative but surely he has to take responsibility for that. If it were last season starting with a fully fit Sesko, Hojlund still at the club and Zirkzee not a confirmed busted flush, to arrive in this situation would be unlucky. But the Dane is gone, the Dutch needs gone and the Slovenian has being showing massive warning signs on the injury front for the last 5 months. You can call it what you like, bad luck, inexperience, out of his depth, but the current situation is on Carrick.

You think he decides who is bought and not? Do you? If so you are missing the point completely.

I don't think I'm missing any point TBH. A good manager, an experienced manager with serious ambition would not tolerate going into the season so short. They would impress upon the board in no uncertain terms the suicidal gamble they took. Ferguson or a Conte would go nuts. They certainly wouldn't take it on the chin and come out and back the board on lack of signings and say everything hunky dory in the media.

I'm not saying I don't understand why he did it. The board's preference is a low maintenance yes man in there to run things for next while and hopefully pick up a few results. It's why he's still in the job. And it's why they're gambling the results might come.

Fergie took it on the chin for years. They did nothing in the transfer market under the Glazers, look at his last few title winning teams, backboned by bargin buys and players who came through the youth teams.

[Blowitupref]

Pogba was world class for about 20 games a season. That's not good enough for a team with genuine ambitions. He stank the place out rest of the time and was a terrible role model. Dilemma there is someone will always take a chance that he'll eventually knuckle down.

On Carrick, I understand a no 9 on form completely changes the narrative but surely he has to take responsibility for that. If it were last season starting with a fully fit Sesko, Hojlund still at the club and Zirkzee not a confirmed busted flush, to arrive in this situation would be unlucky. But the Dane is gone, the Dutch needs gone and the Slovenian has being showing massive warning signs on the injury front for the last 5 months. You can call it what you like, bad luck, inexperience, out of his depth, but the current situation is on Carrick.

You think he decides who is bought and not? Do you? If so you are missing the point completely.

I don't think I'm missing any point TBH. A good manager, an experienced manager with serious ambition would not tolerate going into the season so short. They would impress upon the board in no uncertain terms the suicidal gamble they took. Ferguson or a Conte would go nuts. They certainly wouldn't take it on the chin and come out and back the board on lack of signings and say everything hunky dory in the media.

I'm not saying I don't understand why he did it. The board's preference is a low maintenance yes man in there to run things for next while and hopefully pick up a few results. It's why he's still in the job. And it's why they're gambling the results might come.

Fergie took it on the chin for years. They did nothing in the transfer market under the Glazers, look at his last few title winning teams, backboned by bargin buys and players who came through the youth teams.

One season example 2009/10
Ronaldo sold to Real Madrid

Players signed that summer Michael Owen on a free transfer and Gabriel Obertan remember him?

[ClubScene13]

That squad was on its absolute knees when Ferguson left. Talk about getting out at the right time. An uncomfortable reality for some when coupled with having his fingerprints all over the Glazer sale

[quit yo jibbajabba]

Jesus lads. Bit of rewriting of history going on.

I did a quick Google of glazers transfers in season by season

And also David moyes first team

To say the glazers spent nothing and moyes squad was on its knees is Bryson levels of spin

[Captain Obvious]

Ferguson's last two league seasons

2012/13 - 1st 89 points 
2011/12 - 2nd 89 points (Lost on scoring difference to a team who since have been found guilty for cheating)

Decent going for a "squad on it's knees"

Glazers are the worst ownership of any big club in the world. Radcliffe who joined forces appears no better and is big racist to boot.

Director of football is responsible for transfer at Manchester United and over his head is the CEO. Both was chosen by Jim Radcliffe

Director of football is Jason Wilcox. Liverpool supporter hailing from Bolton an area historically hostile toward United. His playing career featured spells at rivals Blackburn Rovers during the tense 1990s title races and later at Leeds United, followed by an 11-year coaching tenure at Sham City for 11 years.

Omar Berrada is the CEO. He's the chap that had a list of job titles at Sham City during the years the Premier League found them guilty for cheating. Furthermore, historical social media posts reveal him openly mocking Manchester United.


Ratcliffe's choice of personnel is baffling, and it is little wonder the club's institutional decline has accelerated under this leadership.

[RedHand88]

Only Tottenham have a bigger net spend than United over the last 5 years.
Arsenal and Liverpool have spent less and have titles as well as regular CL qualification.

Of all the allegations thrown at the Glazers, I always find the lack of spending to be the most baffling.
It's not that they aren't spending, it's more that they are spending it on absolute guff and offer mediocre players obscene contracts. Not sure on the transfer committee structure within United but is this not more he fault of the manager or DoF than the Glazers?

[Armagh18]

Jesus lads. Bit of rewriting of history going on.

I did a quick Google of glazers transfers in season by season

And also David moyes first team

To say the glazers spent nothing and moyes squad was on its knees is Bryson levels of spin

Look at the backbone of that squad. Giggs, Scholes, Rooney, Vidic, Rio, Carrick, Evra, Park all coming to the end, Van Persie had that one season and then checked out when Fergie did. Rest of the players varied from middling to solid but definitely not world beaters. Younger players with potential like Smalling, Jones, Anderson were never fit. Welbeck, Nani both good players but wildly inconsistent. That 2013 win was carried by Van Persie having the season of his life, but by the end the squad needed a big rebuild 

[quit yo jibbajabba]

Man I can't be bothered but send the age profiles if you want. I think you'd go a long way to find someone to agree that squad was on its knees

[Look-Up!]

For me Carrick is the first manager who hasn't really been backed in a summer transfer window. An experienced manager, no.1 protecting his hard earned reputation and no.2 seeing the lunacy of no striker option, would have kicked up a stink. That was the point I was trying to make.

You can argue the quality of previous signings and question the vision and competence of the higher ups, fair enough, but not throwing money at problems is not something I would accuse Utd of up to recently.

I have always believed, and still believe, that the signing of Sanchez was when they lost control of the club. Busted the wage ceiling, Pogba threw the toys out and wanted same, and every contract they have signed since up to recently had to have a stupid over inflated wage because of the legacy from this piece of business. It's what INEOS are trying to address. Because they had to. Because it was unstainable. Because debt is out of control. But going too cheap creates a whole world of new problems.

[AustinPowers]

Man I can't be bothered but send the age profiles if you want. I think you'd go a long way to find someone to agree that squad was on its knees

Rio, Vedic , Evra were all 32/33

giggs about 40, scholes 38. Carrick and Park 32/33. That's the core of  the team

Ferguson got one last hurrah out of that team . He didn't have the time or energy to rebuild another squad over the next 2-3 years , so checked out. But he  did leave  the next man a huge rebuilding job

The squad might not have been on its knees , but  everyone knew  there would be a huge turnover of players  in the next couple of seasons

[quit yo jibbajabba]

Now do Rooney van persie nani 😀

Fair enough the defence older than I thought but thanks for confirming squad wasnt on its knees

The Liverpool teams of the 70/80s one or two changes was made every year no matter how successful the season was, ferguson had adopted same approach

People say fergie left a sinking ship, same was levelled at dalglish back in the day but same time fergie had to leave sometime and from memory had already delayed things. But anyway

[Armagh18]

Now do Rooney van persie nani 😀

Fair enough the defence older than I thought but thanks for confirming squad wasnt on its knees

The Liverpool teams of the 70/80s one or two changes was made every year no matter how successful the season was, ferguson had adopted same approach

People say fergie left a sinking ship, same was levelled at dalglish back in the day but same time fergie had to leave sometime and from memory had already delayed things. But anyway

Rooneys best days were behind him at that stage and he was definitely not the player he was, obviously same with Van Persie, he went back to his old permanently injured self. Nani? Super player on his day but woeful the next, never knew if you were getting Ronaldo or Obertan.

Who were these brilliant players that were going to carry the team for the next manager exactly?

[RedHand88]

Now do Rooney van persie nani 😀

Fair enough the defence older than I thought but thanks for confirming squad wasnt on its knees

The Liverpool teams of the 70/80s one or two changes was made every year no matter how successful the season was, ferguson had adopted same approach

People say fergie left a sinking ship, same was levelled at dalglish back in the day but same time fergie had to leave sometime and from memory had already delayed things. But anyway

Rooneys best days were behind him at that stage and he was definitely not the player he was, obviously same with Van Persie, he went back to his old permanently injured self. Nani? Super player on his day but woeful the next, never knew if you were getting Ronaldo or Obertan.

Who were these brilliant players that were going to carry the team for the next manager exactly?

Actually had to Google it because the years are getting on and I thought I was remembering it wrong.

38 goals between them in the league!!
RVP got the golden boot with 27 goals. Another 3 elsewhere brought him up to 30 for the season.
Best days behind them, dearie me....

[Armagh18]

Now do Rooney van persie nani 😀

Fair enough the defence older than I thought but thanks for confirming squad wasnt on its knees

The Liverpool teams of the 70/80s one or two changes was made every year no matter how successful the season was, ferguson had adopted same approach

People say fergie left a sinking ship, same was levelled at dalglish back in the day but same time fergie had to leave sometime and from memory had already delayed things. But anyway

Rooneys best days were behind him at that stage and he was definitely not the player he was, obviously same with Van Persie, he went back to his old permanently injured self. Nani? Super player on his day but woeful the next, never knew if you were getting Ronaldo or Obertan.

Who were these brilliant players that were going to carry the team for the next manager exactly?

Actually had to Google it because the years are getting on and I thought I was remembering it wrong.

38 goals between them in the league!!
RVP got the golden boot with 27 goals. Another 3 elsewhere brought him up to 30 for the season.
Best days behind them, dearie me....

Well Van Persie was obviously a short term solution with his injury record, as I said one brilliant year and then back to his usual. Rooney was supposed to leave that summer

[ClubScene13]

Now do Rooney van persie nani 😀

Fair enough the defence older than I thought but thanks for confirming squad wasnt on its knees

The Liverpool teams of the 70/80s one or two changes was made every year no matter how successful the season was, ferguson had adopted same approach

People say fergie left a sinking ship, same was levelled at dalglish back in the day but same time fergie had to leave sometime and from memory had already delayed things. But anyway

Rooneys best days were behind him at that stage and he was definitely not the player he was, obviously same with Van Persie, he went back to his old permanently injured self. Nani? Super player on his day but woeful the next, never knew if you were getting Ronaldo or Obertan.

Who were these brilliant players that were going to carry the team for the next manager exactly?

Actually had to Google it because the years are getting on and I thought I was remembering it wrong.

38 goals between them in the league!!
RVP got the golden boot with 27 goals. Another 3 elsewhere brought him up to 30 for the season.
Best days behind them, dearie me....

The years are getting on is right, squad on its knees a bit harsh maybe on my behalf. Just had an over riding memory of Van Persie putting them on his back that year and being goosed without him. But when another poster puts it in black and white of 89 points in back to back years then that's hard to argue with. The mind does funny things with time... few of them weren't long falling off a complete cliff in terms of form anyway but that can happen when most of a great team reach the end around the same time. What they would give for some of them now..