Man Utd Thread:

[Milltown Row2]

I find it hard to look at the commemoration without cynicism. I suspect that at least part of the motivation in commemorating it to the extent they do is branding of the product. They should acknowledge the mistreatment of those families on days like today. It baffles me how people can feel an emotional attachment to these businesses. I'm glad we have the GAA (I know it's not perfect and some people get paid but still....).

I think in 1958 these clubs were less a business in relation to now and how they are branded , what happened to ex players was wrong but seemed to be the common thing! Doesn't make it right of course.. 

I think if such a thing happened today then the players and families would be well looked after. You have to look at it based on the time

But the plane crash was not a common thing.....

I agree with the sentiment that United should at least acknowledge any mistreatments. It is a major event in their history, and if I look at my father's generation, they are predominantly United fans and when I ask them why, Munich is a major reason. So United's fan base grew, and they still commemorate it (as they should), but the commemoration would mean a lot more if they acknowledge any mistakes in their treatment of the survivors

It was a common thing in that clubs didnt look after ex players when they fell on hard times, is what I meant.. I dont think the club knew that this palne crash would generate a huge fan base, that came after, long after. I think Utd should at the very least compensate (I'm not sure what was done at the time) the familes.

[Asal Mor]

They started to look after the families financially in latter years but some of those they had mistreated had already passed away. You'd have to imagine the marketing department have a hand in how it's commemorated (when you pay players half a million a week the marketing department has to have a hand in everything) but it all seems very hollow and insincere if you don't acknowledge that you ruined the lives of the wounded. I'm disappointed that Bobby Charlton takes part in it without commenting on the treatment of the injured. They were his team mates and if he'd sat in a different seat that night he could have been crocked and turfed out onto the street.

[Asal Mor]

I find it hard to look at the commemoration without cynicism. I suspect that at least part of the motivation in commemorating it to the extent they do is branding of the product. They should acknowledge the mistreatment of those families on days like today. It baffles me how people can feel an emotional attachment to these businesses. I'm glad we have the GAA (I know it's not perfect and some people get paid but still....).

I think in 1958 these clubs were less a business in relation to now and how they are branded , what happened to ex players was wrong but seemed to be the common thing! Doesn't make it right of course.. 

I think if such a thing happened today then the players and families would be well looked after. You have to look at it based on the time

I accept it was the culture at the time MR but does it not make ceremonies like yesterday seem farcical and disingenuous when they make such a fuss of the dead but gloss over their mistreatment of the wounded?

[magpie seanie]

What should Bobby Charlton have done that you know he didn't do? Some hero you are having a pop at an octogenarian crash survivor who has had to live with that all his life.

The club is owned by scumbags now and the Edwards family weren't a whole pile better beforehand. They should have treated the families and survivors better but they were/are businessmen who don't like to part with money unless they absolutely have to. Frankly these people should be treated with the contempt they deserve and mostly are by United supporters who have any idea of the clubs history. There's no way they'd listen to Charlton or even Busby. They fcuked over Busby's son after Busby died (the son had been promised he'd be allowed to keep running the souvenir shop I think) when they realised how much money they could make from merchandise.

The owners of the club may own it on paper and legally but they don't own the spirit of Manchester United and never will. That belongs to the supporters and always will and we will never let the memory die. Keep the red flag flying high.

[Asal Mor]

Charlton gets paid to take part in this charade knowing full well how his mates were screwed and turfed out onto the street.
Giles has often talked about how ruthless Busby was too. Great manager but zero loyalty. He regularly made promises to players when they were going well and left them in the gutter once they were past their best or got injured.
You're supporting a corporate entity, every one of whose players would skip off somewhere else if they got a better offer but keep flying that flag. Even better, buy the new official 2018 flag. The profit margins on it are great.

[Asal Mor]

Busby's son mightn't be responsible for his father's misdeeds but it's ironic that the club screwed him in the exact way his dad had screwed so many of his players.

[Milltown Row2]

I find it hard to look at the commemoration without cynicism. I suspect that at least part of the motivation in commemorating it to the extent they do is branding of the product. They should acknowledge the mistreatment of those families on days like today. It baffles me how people can feel an emotional attachment to these businesses. I'm glad we have the GAA (I know it's not perfect and some people get paid but still....).

I think in 1958 these clubs were less a business in relation to now and how they are branded , what happened to ex players was wrong but seemed to be the common thing! Doesn't make it right of course.. 

I think if such a thing happened today then the players and families would be well looked after. You have to look at it based on the time

I accept it was the culture at the time MR but does it not make ceremonies like yesterday seem farcical and disingenuous when they make such a fuss of the dead but gloss over their mistreatment of the wounded?

You'd have to look at what MS has said, they are owned by people who are intent on making money for themselves. Fans will  remember and not forget the hardships that the players families and those memebers of the press that were also onboard went through.

There many shows recalling that night are harrowing, and how players like Bobby and Harry went through, one thing sticks in my mind was the words of Jack Charlton on how Bobby changed personalities and he wasnt the Bobby he knew from growing up..

To me Bobby seems a very private person and wouldnt talk much about it, that shouldn't be a bad reflection on what he should say or didnt say

[magpie seanie]

Asal Mór. Quite apt.

[Maroon Manc]

The Edwards family really aren't popular among United fans, its nearly 20 years since I read about Louis Edwards became a shareholder at United and can't remember much of it but he certainly used unscrupulous means. United certainly should have treated the survivors of the crash differently but times were different back then and United weren't the financial juggernaut they are now.

Busby's family have been treated well by United, they had 4 free season tickets in the directors box I think or maybe they executive tickets up until the last 18 months, either way each ticket was worth £6000 a season.

[north_antrim_hound]

Charlton gets paid to take part in this charade knowing full well how his mates were screwed and turfed out onto the street.
Giles has often talked about how ruthless Busby was too. Great manager but zero loyalty. He regularly made promises to players when they were going well and left them in the gutter once they were past their best or got injured.
You're supporting a corporate entity, every one of whose players would skip off somewhere else if they got a better offer but keep flying that flag. Even better, buy the new official 2018 flag. The profit margins on it are great.

Harry Gregg is no fan of  Charlton and I think his apathy at how his team mates were treated is one of the reasons. Gregg is an abrasive character but he  shoots from the hip and couldn't give a toss how he is remembered at Old Trafford. Some of the things in his book is very critical of Busby to. Manchester's legacy and success today is built on that team and the way they were treated was a disgrace. Did Charlton ever thank Gregg publicly for dragging him from the wreckage, Gregg would have told him to F..k off if he did but that's not the point.
Great club but that was a terrible way to treat players who gave them so much.

[Milltown Row2]

Charlton gets paid to take part in this charade knowing full well how his mates were screwed and turfed out onto the street.
Giles has often talked about how ruthless Busby was too. Great manager but zero loyalty. He regularly made promises to players when they were going well and left them in the gutter once they were past their best or got injured.
You're supporting a corporate entity, every one of whose players would skip off somewhere else if they got a better offer but keep flying that flag. Even better, buy the new official 2018 flag. The profit margins on it are great.

Harry Gregg is no fan of  Charlton and I think his apathy at how his team mates were treated is one of the reasons. Gregg is an abrasive character but he  shoots from the hip and couldn't give a toss how he is remembered at Old Trafford. Some of the things in his book is very critical of Busby to. Manchester's legacy and success today is built on that team and the way they were treated was a disgrace. Did Charlton ever thank Gregg publicly for dragging him from the wreckage, Gregg would have told him to F..k off if he did but that's not the point.
Great club but that was a terrible way to treat players who gave them so much.

I said earlier, there are many clubs that have treated their best ex players with contempt when they fell on hard times, its not right but it happens, one example and I'm not sure if any of his ex clubs have done anything, Lee Hendrie, lost everything, even his parents home was taken off them when he was declared bankrupt, tried to take his own life twice! Not on his own in that regard

[north_antrim_hound]

Imm not familiar with Lee Hendries financial circumstances but I suspect he was paid a lot more than a Man U player in the 50s. You have to understand the players got severly hurt while on duty for the club and their resulting injuries deprived them of making a living in other ways. I don't think the two cases are comparable. 

[Milltown Row2]

Imm not familiar with Lee Hendries financial circumstances but I suspect he was paid a lot more than a Man U player in the 50s. You have to understand the players got severly hurt while on duty for the club and their resulting injuries deprived them of making a living in other ways. I don't think the two cases are comparable.

I think when you get to the brink of killing yourself not once but twice, you'd have to assume that he was in a bad way, and a small bail out would have helped.

I didnt say they were the same, i just said that plenty of clubs dont treat their past players with the respect you'd assume they should get..

[Asal Mor]

To me Bobby seems a very private person and wouldnt talk much about it, that shouldn't be a bad reflection on what he should say or didnt say

By being on the payroll and attending that farce without comment on what was done by the club to his team mates, he's condoning it, regardless of what his private thoughts might be.

North Antrim hound hits the nail on the head regarding the contrast between Gregg's actions and Charlton's.

[Milltown Row2]

To me Bobby seems a very private person and wouldnt talk much about it, that shouldn't be a bad reflection on what he should say or didnt say

By being on the payroll and attending that farce without comment on what was done by the club to his team mates, he's condoning it, regardless of what his private thoughts might be.

North Antrim hound hits the nail on the head regarding the contrast between Gregg's actions and Charlton's.

Charlton had many payrolls before going back to Utd in the position he is in now, being there is part of job and as a mark of respect for collegues friends and loved ones. Saying he condoned the actions of what the owners did or didnt do is daft

But you are looking for an angle on this, that's really is strange, but sure carry on