Man Utd Thread:

[gallsman]

Strange game. Don't agree with "United were on top". Thought it was finely balanced and United got a bit of luck (that they made) for the goal. Real had a goal disallowed in first half for very little - Ramos outjumped RVP cleanly.

Disagree that it was a red card, but them's the breaks. Fergie reckons his players' lives are at risk when a defender tries to clear a ball, so not sure he has a leg to stand on if he claims it wasn't reckless. As already said, Rafael could have walked and conceded a penalty.

Madrid clinically took the advantage that had been gift-wrapped for them, but then went strangely flat. Bringing on Pepe for Oezil was a very strange move and presented United with opportunities they shouldn't have had.

RVP was very poor throughout and looked off the pace. Not over his injury by the look of it.

As for the media - some of them would sicken your hole. Lawro roundly abused Diego Lopez throughout the game, despite save after save (ok, some of them were relatively comfortable) and eventually only managed a mumbled "credit where it's due". Sky and ITV constantly harping on about how the same ref sent John Terry off last year, searching for a conspiracy in every nook and cranny. Terry kicked a player off the ball ffs!

[Megaman]

Jeez, some off yous must have been watching a different match to me.

in my opinion RM would not have scored if it had stayed 11 v 11.

I can see why the ref sent Nani off but IMO dont think it should have been a red.

RM played well for 5 - 10 mins after the sending off resulting in the 2 goals, after that they sat back and Utd could easily have had 2 - 3 goals only for good goal keeping / bad finishing.

[clarshack]

this must be the first season since 1995-1996 (i think blackburn finished bottom off their group) that there is no english representative in the 1/4 finals.

[Bingo]

Just throwing it out there but the Real "goal" that was disallowed, thought it was a very marginal call as well. It seemed to get lost in the action, as did Modrics display when he came on. United couldn't get close to him.

As for the sending off, harsh i felt but in Europe you know they look at these incidents differently. I don't think it was as clear not a red as some making out. In premiership it be rarely be a red but we've seen a few like it this year, was it a West Ham game when 2 players got reds for similar? Think the cards may have been cancelled on appeal?

Jose has been brown nosing since the draw was made, pretty clear he fancies the job when fergie moves on. At least he'll not hide from the press when things don't go his way.

Was a very tense tactical game but I thought Madrid where just starting to get more of the ball before the sending off. Also felt it was a mistake leaving Giggs on when United when down to 10, he was immense for the 60 minutes but he was starting to drop off and that was a key factor in Uniteds dominance.

[Billys Boots]

Enjoyed the game - was nicely balanced for the first hour, though Real seemed to step up a gear after going behind.  Just prior to the sending off, Mourinho appeared to be getting Benzema ready for a straight swap with Higuain.  All changed with the red card - it seemed a correct decision to me (Nani didn't help his case by feigning injury, in my view), Benzema put his tracksuit back on and Modric came on (for Arbeloa) and dominated the last half hour.  Great management by Mourinho - Utd were not able to cope with the extra man in midfield, especially one as decisive as Modric.  Real were the better side and deserved to go through, overall, I thought. 

[Dinny Breen]

[highorlow]

Bergkamp should have headed it so instead of taking it down v Argentina. He backed his own ability to control the ball and caught Arbeola.

That's not comparing apples with apples. Bergkamp's foot was about a foot or two off the ground to control that ball. Nani was already a foot or more in the air before he launched his hoof.

If there were red cards for cowardice alone then Nani deserved one.

Watch both video's again and then you go and take a shite!

[nrico2006]

Never a sending off.  Not much mention of the Ramos foul towards the end that was a definite penalty.  United were in control until Nani was incorrectly red carded, and seemingly lost their way for a few minutes after it.  Fair play to Rio for going up to the ref, deserves a lot more than being clapped in the face.

What about Rafael's handball that was a definite penalty??

Rafaels was not a definite, the Ramos tackle where he took man and none of the ball was.  People are saying Nani should have been sent off, but what if a player was running at full pelt at and a long ball was played over the top and he was looking over his shoulder to judge where the ball was going and his head collided into an opposing players nose - should that be a red card?  Or should Stephen Hunt have been sent-off for the Cech incident? 

[Bingo]

Enjoyed the game - was nicely balanced for the first hour, though Real seemed to step up a gear after going behind.  Just prior to the sending off, Mourinho appeared to be getting Benzema ready for a straight swap with Higuain.  All changed with the red card - it seemed a correct decision to me (Nani didn't help his case by feigning injury, in my view), Benzema put his tracksuit back on and Modric came on (for Arbeloa) and dominated the last half hour.  Great management by Mourinho - Utd were not able to cope with the extra man in midfield, especially one as decisive as Modric.  Real were the better side and deserved to go through, overall, I thought.

Was that change with Benzema not going to happen after the second goal, or maybe even the first goal?

[laoislad]

[ballinaman]

Bergkamp should have headed it so instead of taking it down v Argentina. He backed his own ability to control the ball and caught Arbeola.

That's not comparing apples with apples. Bergkamp's foot was about a foot or two off the ground to control that ball. Nani was already a foot or more in the air before he launched his hoof.

If there were red cards for cowardice alone then Nani deserved one.

Watch both video's again and then you go and take a shite!

Red cards for cowardice? What's that got to do with anything? At the least try and be objective, I know its hard when it comes to United (Liverpool for some lads, Tony F for Arsenal ect) for some people but give it a go, people might actually value and listen to your opinion on other matters.Players take the ball down from that height regularly enough, just happened to dig Arbeola in the ribs this time. It was a 50/50 call, end of story.

[Bord na Mona man]

On the sending off, if that's the rate things are going, Van Persie risked getting a red had he clipped an opponent with his attempted overhead kick in the box. The Real keeper could also have been in red peril for catching Vidic around the head when Vidic beat him to a cross. Assuming lack of malice and going for the ball are not valid defences, as people are claiming here.

As alluded to, Utd will be disappointed with the manner in which they defended with 10 men. Chelsea against Barca last year was the template to stop a continental team who can't use the option of the high ball. Set up 2 layers of defending players, one on the 18 yard line and one 10 yards in front of them and smother the opposition when they try and work it through. For Modric's goal for example, there were too many Utd players in a row defending the edge of the box. One eventually shot out to close to close him down, but was easily rounded.

That's the problem when you beat most teams at a stroll in the Premier League and rarely have to put in a backs to the wall performance.

[deiseach]

Rafaels was not a definite

Penalty. Had that been at the other end, Fergie would have, well, done a Fergie.

[ballinaman]

Thought this was interesting enough. 50/50 decisions both of them IMO, another day a ref could have reversed the decisions. Good to have a read of the actual laws.



FIFA Law 12: "Reckless" means that the player has acted with complete disregard of the danger to, or consequences for, his opponent. A player who plays in a reckless manner shall be cautioned.

This seems to sum up fairly well the two incidents above. Both Diego López and Nani were trying to win the ball but both of them went in without considering the consequences for their opponent. Nani caught Alvaro Arbeloa with his studs, Diego López punched Nemanja Vidic in the head with both fists.
Nani got sent off and López wasn't even booked

FIFA Law 12: "Using excessive force" means that the player has far exceeded the necessary use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent. A player who uses excessive force shall be sent off.
Whilst both Nani and López were in danger of injuring an opponent, neither of them used excessive force.

FIFA Law 12: If a player plays in a dangerous manner in a "normal" challenge, the referee should not take any disciplinary action. If the action is made with obvious risk of injury the referee should caution the player. If a player denies an obvious goal-scoring opportunity in a dangerous manner the referee should send off the player.

Again, the Laws of the game would suggest that at worst, Nani should have been booked.

[johnneycool]

What was Real's goal in the first half disallowed for?