Man Utd Thread:

[nrico2006]

Another great turn by Red Nev:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2030841/Gary-Neville-How-did-Manchester-United-beat-Arsene-Wengers-Arsenal-We-bullied-them.html

[Minder]

National Geographic channel tonight at 9pm

Munich - I was there. With Harry Gregg.

[Boycey]

National Geographic channel tonight at 9pm

Munich - I was there. With Harry Gregg.

Read elsewhere today that this is just a repackaging of BBC documentary from a couple of years ago?? Apparently something National Geographical do regularly.

Nonetheless worth a look

[new devil]

Just got sent this...Thought you's could all do with a laugh

There's been a lot of talk since the start of the season about how much of a genius Alex Ferguson is and how he's putting together a team to rival Barcelona this season. Then, they go an maul Arsenal on Sunday. There's no doubt in my mind that the entire media and press are going to be utterly, completely and totally insufferable in their praise for them come the next few days. Personally, I think that's utter nonsense; as far as I'm concerned, he is in no better a position than he was last year. All he's done is add a winger to the two he's already got, a keeper that will take at least a full season to completely bloom and another young centre back that won't play every week.

They had a good result against Tottenham last weekend as well, winning 3-nil. Only, so did City Sunday just gone, putting 5 past Spurs at their own ground. That – coupled with currently being rock bottom – would kind of suggest that they're actually there for the taking at the moment. And United's win against Arsenal on Sunday was as much to do with Arsene Wenger's growing insanity as anything. Anybody who saw the game could see that Ferguson appeared to be trying to stop his team from scoring toward the end and even Gary Neville took little pleasure in the nature of the scoreline. This wasn't a masterclass by United, this was the brutal murdering of a club already hamstrung by years of mismanagement; our own new first-team made a much stronger Arsenal look poor last weekend and were they to have played us at Anfield, we'd have probably knocked a few more past them as well.

Some might argue that United have just added to the depth of their squad but I would argue that if anything, we've had the far more successful summer and will also benefit more in the long-term. Ferguson has added Ashley Young and Phil Jones when, in reality, he didn't really need them. What he needed was a couple of quality, central mid-fielders and a good holding player. The only one of their signings they actually needed was De Gea and he's looked far from a potentially great player up to now. On the other hand, we've brought in Doni, arguably good enough to be a first choice at most Premier League clubs; Charlie Adam – a player United could probably have done with themselves; Stewart Downing, Jose Enrique and Jordan Henderson. Coupled with Suarez and Carroll in January (who are still seemingly new signings, as we've barely seen them together yet) and are looking to bring in one of the most promising young players to come out of Uruguay since Suarez himself, and for less than half the price of Phil Jones, he could turn out to be twice the player.

To back up my belief, I'm going to have a quick look over each side's starting 11′s and the likely benches that both sides would choose if at full-strength.

GK – Reina v De Gea: I think I'll have about 99% of fans of any club on my side in this argument, but Reina is hands-down the better keeper and De Gea is unlikely to ever reach his level (but will no doubt become first-choice for Spain, given the 'special' club he's playing at). So this one is easy:

Reina – 10 v De Gea – 7

RB – Kelly v Rafael: This is a slightly tougher one, as we've seen so little of either player, with Kelly having played 17 games for the Reds and Rafael around 40. On first impressions of both players though, they're both incredibly promising. Kelly is a very tall and surprisingly quick full back with a growing penchant for getting forward, as he demonstrated last week against Arsenal, and Rafael likewise. The only downside to Rafael's game is that he's always walking a bit of a disciplinary tightrope, having already received 2 red cards in less than a half-century of games. As both show a lot of potential:

Kelly – 7 v Rafael – 7

CB – Agger & Carragher v Ferdinand & Vidic: This is a difficult one for both sides as it's highly likely that both CB pairings will change regularly over the season due to fatigue, injury, etc as both contain players that are – to put it kindly – 'getting on'. But these are more-than-likely going to be the first choice pairings. Both Carragher and Ferdinand are coming to the end of distinguished careers and both are still highly thought of. The fact that they both walk in to two of the top sides in Europe, when fit, says a lot about both players. While Agger and Vidic are two of the best CB's around and are likely to be for some time to come. Both sides regularly top the table when it comes to 'goals against' and that is largely down to having such experienced talented men at the back. While Vidic is widely regarded as one of the best in Europe though, it is also a widely held belief that Ferdinand isn't the same player he once was and hasn't been for some time:

Agger – 8 & Carragher – 8 v Ferdinand – 7 & Vidic – 9

LB – Enrique v Evra: Both quality full backs and both with plenty of experience in the Premier League. The only thing that goes in Evra's favour here is that he is much more proven. He's played at the top level for years and is regarded throughout as one of the best left-backs in Europe, while Jose Enrique is one of the best in the League but only potentially in Europe:

Enrique 8 v Evra – 10

LM – Downing v Young: Both new signings; both from Aston Villa and both very talented. Time will tell who turns out to be the better value signing. At the moment though, it's fair to say that Young is the slightly better player but Downing could turn out to be the more valuable signing though, as he is more consistent and contribute more to the team. So for the time being, I'm sitting on the fence on this one:

Downing – 8 v Young – 8

DM – Lucas v Carrick: Anderson has played more this season but Carrick is United's first-choice when it comes to the defensive midfield role. He is supposedly a great passer of the ball and was once thought of as England's great midfield hope. Back in the real world we all know he's just an average player who makes 1-in-10 passes look good; he is everything that is wrong with the England tea, in that he is picked repeatedly whilst better players than him are left by the wayside. On the other hand, Lucas has won over pretty much all of his detractors within (and without) the club; he is now happily sitting atop the list of the League' best holding midfielders and, should Liverpool get back in to the Champions League this season, probably also Europe in the future. This one is easy:

Lucas – 9 v Carrick – 6

CM – Gerrard v Giggs: While Charlie Adam has played every game so far for the Reds, there can be no doubt that Gerrard will be back in the side when fit and it's likely to be Charlie Adam who loses out. Giggs – let's be honest here – is a total legend. A cheating scum-bag but a legendary footballer and not even the most hardened Red could deny it. Likewise, Gerrard is one of the greatest midfielders that we've ever had. If he wins even one League title with us before he retires, he will rightly be held on the same level as a player like Giggs. But given that Giggs has been a fading force for a couple of seasons and that he's used sparingly and likely to be used even more so this year, you have to give Gerrard the edge here:

Gerrard – 10 v Giggs – 9

RM – Kuyt v Nani: This is a more difficult position to look at as both have hugely differing styles. Nani is the archetypal winger while Kuyt is a converted forward with lots of energy and a workhorses attitude. One runs the wings the other has a tendency to drift inside or cross from deep. But they're both equally as effective for their respective clubs:

Kuyt – 8 v Nani – 8

CF – Suarez & Carroll v Hernandez & Rooney: While Berbatov would be most people's choice over Hernandez, it appears he has been frozen out at OT in recent games so given how highly thought of 'little pea' (or whatever his ridiculous name is) is, he completes the pairing with Rooney. Both are very dangerous on paper but both still have some flaws and need bit of work. Individually, though there's no doubt that these are four of the best forwards in the League. Even as for me, it's hard to admit but on his day Rooney can devastate teams on without any help from his team-mates. With what we've seen of Suarez so far though, the same can be said of him. With Carroll and Hernandez though, they're both very much rough diamonds and works in progress. The talent is certainly for both of them but they must be honed into complete players by their clubs:

Suarez – 10 & Carroll – 7 v Rooney – 9 & Hernandez – 7

Bench: It's on the bench where the battle is likely to be won or lost from either team as both teams are stronger than their counterparts in certain positions. Going with the 7-man bench that is standard practise in the Premier League now, this is what I believe is strongest Liverpool's bench:

Doni – 8, Skrtel – 7, Aurelio – 8, Henderson – 7, Meireles – 9 , Adam – 8, Ngog – 7 v Lindegaard– 7, Fabio – 6, Jones – 8, Anderson – 7, Cleverley – 7, Valencia – 8, Berbatov – 9

Having taken all of these ratings into consideration (and I haven't been doing it strategically, I've just rated players based purely on how good I think they are out of 10) and totalled them up, the final overall ratings of each squad is:

Liverpool – 147 v Manchester United – 139 with each club having an average score of 8.16 and 7.77 per player.

So in my opinion, Liverpool currently have the edge over the League Champions in terms of overall squad and also starting 11′s. At this moment in time though, Liverpool are a much 'newer' team, while United have the mentally they've built up over the years and know what it means to win. The positive thing for the Reds is that their players are there to overhaul them sooner or later, and should we bring in a couple more quality signings in the next few days, then I can see no reason for why that can't be sooner.

Are United Really That Much Better Than Us? | live4liverpool.com

[Tony Baloney]

The author of that blog, and I suspect you , are both missing the point. Over many years United players wouldn't win the tale of the tape on an individual basis but their strength is playing as a unit. They've always been better than the sum of their parts and although they have some outstanding individuals, like Rooney, the collective has always been more important than the individual. That's the bit other teams need to work on.

[nrico2006]

The author of that blog, and I suspect you , are both missing the point. Over many years United players wouldn't win the tale of the tape on an individual basis but their strength is playing as a unit. They've always been better than the sum of their parts and although they have some outstanding individuals, like Rooney, the collective has always been more important than the individual. That's the bit other teams need to work on.

What you are saying is right to an extent, but even you can see that whoever wrote that article is a complete tube.  Need I say more than him rating Carragher ahead of Ferdinand and giving Lucas and Meireles a 9.  As for Suarez, looks like he could be a good player but he has alot to do to be rated ahead of Rooney.

[screenexile]

Jesus . . . I find myself actually agreeing with the Man Ures on this one. What a complete farce of an article.

Andy Carroll got ROASTED by Vermaelen both on the ground and in the air and Vermaelen is a good 3 inches smaller than him!!

I won't even get started on Carragher and Lucas. Liverpool have improved but they won't be on the same level as Man Ure or City this season!

[laoislad]

Someone sent it to you did they new devil! Or were you reading through all the LFC forums yourself? We know its your favourite pastime after all !

[new devil]

Never been on a Liverpool forum LL...just get sent bits and pieces from a Liverpool fan now and again who also laughs at some of these morons....I read enough on the Liverpool thread on this board to do me 

[new devil]

Jesus . . . I find myself actually agreeing with the Man Ures on this one. What a complete farce of an article.

Andy Carroll got ROASTED by Vermaelen both on the ground and in the air and Vermaelen is a good 3 inches smaller than him!!

I won't even get started on Carragher and Lucas. Liverpool have improved but they won't be on the same level as Man Ure or City this season!

One of the funniest parts is that he actually gives Evra a 10 and him that hasn't been playing well in the last 18 months...

[Bingo]

A nonsense article and proof that the internet gives every tool a voice. No game in any sport was ever won on paper.

However I see some have made little of Lucas again. Long may it continue, arguably the first name on the team sheet for Liverpool and allows the others to do what they do. Many at the game on Saturday reckon Lucas was best player on field and was responsible for liverpools dominance.

[Geoff Tipps]

Jesus . . . I find myself actually agreeing with the Man Ures on this one. What a complete farce of an article.

Andy Carroll got ROASTED by Vermaelen both on the ground and in the air and Vermaelen is a good 3 inches smaller than him!!

I won't even get started on Carragher and Lucas. Liverpool have improved but they won't be on the same level as Man Ure or City this season!

Would love to hear what you have to say on Lucas. Anyone who has watched Liverpool regularly for the last 18 months will tell you that he has been their best player in that time and is now arguably the best defensive midfielder in the premiership.

[brokencrossbar1]

A nonsense article and proof that the internet gives every tool a voice. No game in any sport was ever won on paper.

However I see some have made little of Lucas again. Long may it continue, arguably the first name on the team sheet for Liverpool and allows the others to do what they do. Many at the game on Saturday reckon Lucas was best player on field and was responsible for liverpools dominance.

Lucas is as good as they get for what he does, covers that MF brilliantly and rarely has a bad game.  He does what Whelan used to do and play the simple pass.  He doesn't do crunching tackles as his timing is so good he gets there a farction of a second before the opposition.  I hope that people continue to write him off and I know that Fergie would take him in a heart beat.

[Boycey]

Strange one with Hargreaves? Can see attraction of City obviously, but when will he play??? De jong, Toure, Nasri, Barry, Milner etc be in front of him

I'd of thought with all his problems over the last few years he'd of wanted to be somewhere he'd play more often, or maybe he's going into semi-retirement like Mickey O

[Geoff Tipps]

Strange one with Hargreaves? Can see attraction of City obviously, but when will he play??? De jong, Toure, Nasri, Barry, Milner etc be in front of him

I'd of thought with all his problems over the last few years he'd of wanted to be somewhere he'd play more often, or maybe he's going into semi-retirement like Mickey O

Mancini likes to play with 2 holding midfielders. From your list that's 2 from De Jong, Toure and Barry. He might get more game time than you think.