Ooh Ah Up The Ra

[seafoid]

Huge popularity for the Wolfetones now and in no small part/thanks to the outrage and hyperbole by the national media about the one line lyric in their 1989 Celtic Symphony song.



https://twitter.com/wolfetones/status/1698480736372662310

For people who have suffered at the hands of IRA violence they find it offensive. Surely you can see that? If that was a huge tent in East Belfast and everyone singing up to their knees in Fenian blood would you be offended?
I keep saying it, people want a United Ireland but these people don't want to have to do any of the work to achieve it.

The troubles were brutal. Celebrating the IRA is wrong when so much pain has not been worked on. There are other ways for people to  make their  point.

Wrong to celebrate rebels of The Easter Rising and the Tan War too then?

May as well scrap  the national anthem as well then .  Replace it with  'Where's me jumper?' .  Although the  references to Karl Marx and  the anarchist party  might be an issue

The Tan file is closed. the Troubles file isn't. If you sing up the Ra or up to your knees in Fenian blood it will trigger a reaction . It's not complicated.

[trailer]

Huge popularity for the Wolfetones now and in no small part/thanks to the outrage and hyperbole by the national media about the one line lyric in their 1989 Celtic Symphony song.



https://twitter.com/wolfetones/status/1698480736372662310

For people who have suffered at the hands of IRA violence they find it offensive. Surely you can see that? If that was a huge tent in East Belfast and everyone singing up to their knees in Fenian blood would you be offended?
I keep saying it, people want a United Ireland but these people don't want to have to do any of the work to achieve it.

The troubles were brutal. Celebrating the IRA is wrong when so much pain has not been worked on. There are other ways for people to  make their  point.

This song is in no way about the IRA, the song is about Celtic, the section of the song talking about the IRA is a man recalling the graffiti he sees on the wall.

The IRA done some terrible terrible things, but they were the only people standing up for the second class catholic citizens up here during them days and if it was not for them many many more Catholics would have been killed.

Don't forgot how the troubles started, a civil rights campaign. But sure you southerns wouldn't know that anyway...

Here we go... this bullshit again. The IRA killed more Catholics than any other organisation in the troubles.

What bullshit? stating they done terrible things which they did and in both sides of the divide.

If it was not for them god knows how catholics would be treated in the North today.

They were the ONLY people who stood up for Catholics.
It is complete nonsense and to remind you the IRA killed more Catholics than any other organisation.
https://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/troubles/troubles_stats.html

[InnocentByStander]

Huge popularity for the Wolfetones now and in no small part/thanks to the outrage and hyperbole by the national media about the one line lyric in their 1989 Celtic Symphony song.



https://twitter.com/wolfetones/status/1698480736372662310

For people who have suffered at the hands of IRA violence they find it offensive. Surely you can see that? If that was a huge tent in East Belfast and everyone singing up to their knees in Fenian blood would you be offended?
I keep saying it, people want a United Ireland but these people don't want to have to do any of the work to achieve it.

The troubles were brutal. Celebrating the IRA is wrong when so much pain has not been worked on. There are other ways for people to  make their  point.

This song is in no way about the IRA, the song is about Celtic, the section of the song talking about the IRA is a man recalling the graffiti he sees on the wall.

The IRA done some terrible terrible things, but they were the only people standing up for the second class catholic citizens up here during them days and if it was not for them many many more Catholics would have been killed.

Don't forgot how the troubles started, a civil rights campaign. But sure you southerns wouldn't know that anyway...

Here we go... this bullshit again. The IRA killed more Catholics than any other organisation in the troubles.

What bullshit? stating they done terrible things which they did and in both sides of the divide.

If it was not for them god knows how catholics would be treated in the North today.

They were the ONLY people who stood up for Catholics.
It is complete nonsense and to remind you the IRA killed more Catholics than any other organisation.
https://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/troubles/troubles_stats.html

I mean they were horrible people but in many areas people looked to them as their only hope.
Back to the original point about the post, its not an IRA song yes I can understand why people be offended and yes there is still a lot of work to be done for a united Ireland which i think one side is willing to do but another is not.

No hazard to guess whihc side do not want to put the work in.

[Itchy]

Huge popularity for the Wolfetones now and in no small part/thanks to the outrage and hyperbole by the national media about the one line lyric in their 1989 Celtic Symphony song.



https://twitter.com/wolfetones/status/1698480736372662310

For people who have suffered at the hands of IRA violence they find it offensive. Surely you can see that? If that was a huge tent in East Belfast and everyone singing up to their knees in Fenian blood would you be offended?
I keep saying it, people want a United Ireland but these people don't want to have to do any of the work to achieve it.

The troubles were brutal. Celebrating the IRA is wrong when so much pain has not been worked on. There are other ways for people to  make their  point.

Wrong to celebrate rebels of The Easter Rising and the Tan War too then?

May as well scrap  the national anthem as well then .  Replace it with  'Where's me jumper?' .  Although the  references to Karl Marx and  the anarchist party  might be an issue

The Tan file is closed. the Troubles file isn't. If you sing up the Ra or up to your knees in Fenian blood it will trigger a reaction . It's not complicated.

Says who, you is it as the authority on these things?

For what its worth I am not a fan of the wolfe tones nor the idea of singing songs about conflict. I once did it myself like many of us but now I don't really see it as helpful. Saying that I would say 99% of Wolfe Tone songs that I recall are about the old IRA which your FF, FG etc parties and general population commemorate every year - rightly so. The sheer hypocrisy of the same peoples outrage about the wolfe tones I find hilarious.

The real story here is that the establishment is shitting itself that young people cannot be controlled to their way of thinking, that a party (Sinn Fein) is winning the vote of young people at a higher rate than the FF/FG establishment parties are, that they can see poll results today are only the start of a bigger swing to Sinn Fein. This constant moaning about the wolfe tones is just another manifestation of desperation of establishment lackies. Newstalk with 2 muppets on a show blabbering about history being re-written yesterday and then they invited f**king Bertie Ahern on to make the same point, one of the biggest crooks the country ever seen. Much of the outrage in the south is from clowns that wouldnt know the difference between Belleek and Belarus. Its the last sting of a dying wasp. I for one am enjoying it.

[seafoid]

Huge popularity for the Wolfetones now and in no small part/thanks to the outrage and hyperbole by the national media about the one line lyric in their 1989 Celtic Symphony song.



https://twitter.com/wolfetones/status/1698480736372662310

For people who have suffered at the hands of IRA violence they find it offensive. Surely you can see that? If that was a huge tent in East Belfast and everyone singing up to their knees in Fenian blood would you be offended?
I keep saying it, people want a United Ireland but these people don't want to have to do any of the work to achieve it.

The troubles were brutal. Celebrating the IRA is wrong when so much pain has not been worked on. There are other ways for people to  make their  point.

Wrong to celebrate rebels of The Easter Rising and the Tan War too then?

May as well scrap  the national anthem as well then .  Replace it with  'Where's me jumper?' .  Although the  references to Karl Marx and  the anarchist party  might be an issue

The Tan file is closed. the Troubles file isn't. If you sing up the Ra or up to your knees in Fenian blood it will trigger a reaction . It's not complicated.

Says who, you is it as the authority on these things?

For what its worth I am not a fan of the wolfe tones nor the idea of singing songs about conflict. I once did it myself like many of us but now I don't really see it as helpful. Saying that I would say 99% of Wolfe Tone songs that I recall are about the old IRA which your FF, FG etc parties and general population commemorate every year - rightly so. The sheer hypocrisy of the same peoples outrage about the wolfe tones I find hilarious.

The real story here is that the establishment is shitting itself that young people cannot be controlled to their way of thinking, that a party (Sinn Fein) is winning the vote of young people at a higher rate than the FF/FG establishment parties are, that they can see poll results today are only the start of a bigger swing to Sinn Fein. This constant moaning about the wolfe tones is just another manifestation of desperation of establishment lackies. Newstalk with 2 muppets on a show blabbering about history being re-written yesterday and then they invited f**king Bertie Ahern on to make the same point, one of the biggest crooks the country ever seen. Much of the outrage in the south is from clowns that wouldnt know the difference between Belleek and Belarus. Its the last sting of a dying wasp. I for one am enjoying it.

SF will have the same experience as Labour in Government. Labour's way or Frankfurt's way was the message. Frankfurt's way was the result.

[Snapchap]

When is the last time the Tan war was celebrated in public by 20,000 people in the midlands? Just give me the year .

How many turned up at a state event at Béal na Bláth last year at a commemoration for an IRA leader, organised by the state and broadcast to many more than 20,000 people? Those tuning in were doing so specifically to honour that IRA leader. Those at the Wolfe Tones were there specifically for a bellyful of drink and a sing song.
If I was a unionist facing into the inevitability of a united Ireland, I think I'd probably be a bit more uncomfortable with the fact that the state organises IRA commemorations and televises them live on the state broadcaster, than by a crowd at an electric picnic concert. So the claim from certain quarters in the south over the last 24 hours that they are just worried about "unionist concerns" don't sound all that genuine from what I can see. To me, it's just another exercise in the "Old IRA good, PIRA bad" revisionist nonsense.

For people who have suffered at the hands of IRA violence they find it offensive. Surely you can see that? If that was a huge tent in East Belfast and everyone singing up to their knees in Fenian blood would you be offended?
I keep saying it, people want a United Ireland but these people don't want to have to do any of the work to achieve it.

What do you mean "if"? You maybe missed it (understandable, because I'd be fairly confident that Newstalk and the likes weren't able to take a break from their 'Wolfe Tones outrage' coverage to mention it, but there actually was a huge march down the Shankill Rd at the weekend honouring UVF sectarian murderer Brian Robinson, and the crowds were singing along to bands playing the very song you mentioned. Do I find it distasteful? Of course it is. Am I grossly offended? I haven't given it a second thought. I'm more offended by the people who, typically, have had SO much to say about the Wole Tones, but precisely NOTHING to say about the Brian Robinson parade. Leaving aside the ridiculous idea that those singing at the WT gig at Electric Picnic are some sort of a parallel to those in Belfast singing about being up to their knees in the blood of Catholics, do you think that if loyalists stopped singing about being up to their knees in Fenian blood, that I'd suddenly become in favour of partition? Will unionists suddenly become pro-unity once the Wolfe Tones slide into retirement?

[Itchy]

Huge popularity for the Wolfetones now and in no small part/thanks to the outrage and hyperbole by the national media about the one line lyric in their 1989 Celtic Symphony song.



https://twitter.com/wolfetones/status/1698480736372662310

For people who have suffered at the hands of IRA violence they find it offensive. Surely you can see that? If that was a huge tent in East Belfast and everyone singing up to their knees in Fenian blood would you be offended?
I keep saying it, people want a United Ireland but these people don't want to have to do any of the work to achieve it.

The troubles were brutal. Celebrating the IRA is wrong when so much pain has not been worked on. There are other ways for people to  make their  point.

Wrong to celebrate rebels of The Easter Rising and the Tan War too then?

May as well scrap  the national anthem as well then .  Replace it with  'Where's me jumper?' .  Although the  references to Karl Marx and  the anarchist party  might be an issue

The Tan file is closed. the Troubles file isn't. If you sing up the Ra or up to your knees in Fenian blood it will trigger a reaction . It's not complicated.

Says who, you is it as the authority on these things?

For what its worth I am not a fan of the wolfe tones nor the idea of singing songs about conflict. I once did it myself like many of us but now I don't really see it as helpful. Saying that I would say 99% of Wolfe Tone songs that I recall are about the old IRA which your FF, FG etc parties and general population commemorate every year - rightly so. The sheer hypocrisy of the same peoples outrage about the wolfe tones I find hilarious.

The real story here is that the establishment is shitting itself that young people cannot be controlled to their way of thinking, that a party (Sinn Fein) is winning the vote of young people at a higher rate than the FF/FG establishment parties are, that they can see poll results today are only the start of a bigger swing to Sinn Fein. This constant moaning about the wolfe tones is just another manifestation of desperation of establishment lackies. Newstalk with 2 muppets on a show blabbering about history being re-written yesterday and then they invited f**king Bertie Ahern on to make the same point, one of the biggest crooks the country ever seen. Much of the outrage in the south is from clowns that wouldnt know the difference between Belleek and Belarus. Its the last sting of a dying wasp. I for one am enjoying it.

SF will have the same experience as Labour in Government. Labour's way or Frankfurt's way was the message. Frankfurt's way was the result.

What's that silly soundbite got to do with what I wrote above?

[InnocentByStander]

When is the last time the Tan war was celebrated in public by 20,000 people in the midlands? Just give me the year .

How many turned up at a state event at Béal na Bláth last year at a commemoration for an IRA leader, organised by the state and broadcast to many more than 20,000 people? Those tuning in were doing so specifically to honour that IRA leader. Those at the Wolfe Tones were there specifically for a bellyful of drink and a sing song.
If I was a unionist facing into the inevitability of a united Ireland, I think I'd probably be a bit more uncomfortable with the fact that the state organises IRA commemorations and televises them live on the state broadcaster, than by a crowd at an electric picnic concert. So the claim from certain quarters in the south over the last 24 hours that they are just worried about "unionist concerns" don't sound all that genuine from what I can see. To me, it's just another exercise in the "Old IRA good, PIRA bad" revisionist nonsense.

For people who have suffered at the hands of IRA violence they find it offensive. Surely you can see that? If that was a huge tent in East Belfast and everyone singing up to their knees in Fenian blood would you be offended?
I keep saying it, people want a United Ireland but these people don't want to have to do any of the work to achieve it.

What do you mean "if"? You maybe missed it (understandable, because I'd be fairly confident that Newstalk and the likes weren't able to take a break from their 'Wolfe Tones outrage' coverage to mention it, but there actually was a huge march down the Shankill Rd at the weekend honouring UVF sectarian murderer Brian Robinson, and the crowds were singing along to bands playing the very song you mentioned. Do I find it distasteful? Of course it is. Am I grossly offended? I haven't given it a second thought. I'm more offended by the people who, typically, have had SO much to say about the Wole Tones, but precisely NOTHING to say about the Brian Robinson parade. Leaving aside the ridiculous idea that those singing at the WT gig at Electric Picnic are some sort of a parallel to those in Belfast singing about being up to their knees in the blood of Catholics, do you think that if loyalists stopped singing about being up to their knees in Fenian blood, that I'd suddenly become in favour of partition? Will unionists suddenly become pro-unity once the Wolfe Tones slide into retirement?

So True their sectarian hate fests never make the news, the same weekend the wolfe tones sung in Falls park the apprentice boys parade was a Derry, many vidoes floating around social media with sectarian songs being sung and a catholic shop owner was attacked for asking a man not to pee beside his shop. But no mention...

[trailer]

So the counter argument seems to be whatabout.

[seafoid]

Huge popularity for the Wolfetones now and in no small part/thanks to the outrage and hyperbole by the national media about the one line lyric in their 1989 Celtic Symphony song.



https://twitter.com/wolfetones/status/1698480736372662310

For people who have suffered at the hands of IRA violence they find it offensive. Surely you can see that? If that was a huge tent in East Belfast and everyone singing up to their knees in Fenian blood would you be offended?
I keep saying it, people want a United Ireland but these people don't want to have to do any of the work to achieve it.

The troubles were brutal. Celebrating the IRA is wrong when so much pain has not been worked on. There are other ways for people to  make their  point.

Wrong to celebrate rebels of The Easter Rising and the Tan War too then?

May as well scrap  the national anthem as well then .  Replace it with  'Where's me jumper?' .  Although the  references to Karl Marx and  the anarchist party  might be an issue

The Tan file is closed. the Troubles file isn't. If you sing up the Ra or up to your knees in Fenian blood it will trigger a reaction . It's not complicated.

Says who, you is it as the authority on these things?

For what its worth I am not a fan of the wolfe tones nor the idea of singing songs about conflict. I once did it myself like many of us but now I don't really see it as helpful. Saying that I would say 99% of Wolfe Tone songs that I recall are about the old IRA which your FF, FG etc parties and general population commemorate every year - rightly so. The sheer hypocrisy of the same peoples outrage about the wolfe tones I find hilarious.

The real story here is that the establishment is shitting itself that young people cannot be controlled to their way of thinking, that a party (Sinn Fein) is winning the vote of young people at a higher rate than the FF/FG establishment parties are, that they can see poll results today are only the start of a bigger swing to Sinn Fein. This constant moaning about the wolfe tones is just another manifestation of desperation of establishment lackies. Newstalk with 2 muppets on a show blabbering about history being re-written yesterday and then they invited f**king Bertie Ahern on to make the same point, one of the biggest crooks the country ever seen. Much of the outrage in the south is from clowns that wouldnt know the difference between Belleek and Belarus. Its the last sting of a dying wasp. I for one am enjoying it.

SF will have the same experience as Labour in Government. Labour's way or Frankfurt's way was the message. Frankfurt's way was the result.

What's that silly soundbite got to do with what I wrote above?

Power, Itchy. the Department of Finance. The Government can't influence much.
Why do so many Cavan people have to go to work in Dublin? There are bigger powers calling shots.

[Snapchap]

So the counter argument seems to be whatabout.

"Whataboutery" is such a lazy 'get out' clause/phrase for people who don't want a mirror held up to hypocrisy.

Seafoid asked when the last time a crowd of thousands gathered in the south to commemorate the IRA. I simply answered him that it was just last year, and that it was actually organised by the government and broadcast on live TV. If the argument is really that unionists might be put off the idea of a united Ireland (as if their unionism is that weak) by young people singing along to the Wolfe Tones, then I hardly think it's unreasonable to suggest that maybe they'd be far more uneasy about the fact that the state itself commemorates the IRA routinely.

[seafoid]

When is the last time the Tan war was celebrated in public by 20,000 people in the midlands? Just give me the year .

How many turned up at a state event at Béal na Bláth last year at a commemoration for an IRA leader, organised by the state and broadcast to many more than 20,000 people? Those tuning in were doing so specifically to honour that IRA leader. Those at the Wolfe Tones were there specifically for a bellyful of drink and a sing song.
If I was a unionist facing into the inevitability of a united Ireland, I think I'd probably be a bit more uncomfortable with the fact that the state organises IRA commemorations and televises them live on the state broadcaster, than by a crowd at an electric picnic concert. So the claim from certain quarters in the south over the last 24 hours that they are just worried about "unionist concerns" don't sound all that genuine from what I can see. To me, it's just another exercise in the "Old IRA good, PIRA bad" revisionist nonsense.

For people who have suffered at the hands of IRA violence they find it offensive. Surely you can see that? If that was a huge tent in East Belfast and everyone singing up to their knees in Fenian blood would you be offended?
I keep saying it, people want a United Ireland but these people don't want to have to do any of the work to achieve it.

What do you mean "if"? You maybe missed it (understandable, because I'd be fairly confident that Newstalk and the likes weren't able to take a break from their 'Wolfe Tones outrage' coverage to mention it, but there actually was a huge march down the Shankill Rd at the weekend honouring UVF sectarian murderer Brian Robinson, and the crowds were singing along to bands playing the very song you mentioned. Do I find it distasteful? Of course it is. Am I grossly offended? I haven't given it a second thought. I'm more offended by the people who, typically, have had SO much to say about the Wole Tones, but precisely NOTHING to say about the Brian Robinson parade. Leaving aside the ridiculous idea that those singing at the WT gig at Electric Picnic are some sort of a parallel to those in Belfast singing about being up to their knees in the blood of Catholics, do you think that if loyalists stopped singing about being up to their knees in Fenian blood, that I'd suddenly become in favour of partition? Will unionists suddenly become pro-unity once the Wolfe Tones slide into retirement?

Collins founded the partionist State. He led a war against people who wanted the 32 counties with the aid of the Brits who sponsored armoured cars. He also shafted the nationalist population of the North.  Béal na mBláth is not a good debating point for a Northern Shinner.

Why weren't Mary Lou and Pearse Óg  in the tent for the singalong? Because they are not stupid. If they want to win, they can't f**k anything up.

[tbrick18]

So the counter argument seems to be whatabout.

I don't think it is, it's more about parity in the outrage.
For 5-6 months of the year the nationalist population is subjected to unionist marching season. The main organisation behind which is the Orange Order, founded as an anti-catholic organisation. Many of the bands are named after loyalist terrorists. Many of the songs are much more graphic than the wolfe tones songs. All of this falls under the banner of a tradition and a culture of celebrating Protestant victory over Catholics 400 years ago.
Flying of flags representing loyalist paramilitary groups and British Army units that murdered innocent catholics on Bloody Sunday is the norm. Burning bonfires with effigies of nationalist politicians including those in irish government.

All of that is offensive to me.
So why, in a modern society where that is accepted by so many, should I not be allowed to express my thoughts on what went on here even if it does cause offence to those same people?

We can't/shouldn't have a society where it's ok for one side but not the other.
The options are ban all of it or ban none of it.
We can't ban it all because it will still happen in private and innevitably be published somewhere that it happened.  Then "themuns" will be outraged.
The safer, mature approach is to accept. Leave each to their own in their beliefs without trying to impose your own opinion on others.
Then the mechanics of normal life will just work. Or at least they have a better chance of working in my opinion.

[AustinPowers]

When is the last time the Tan war was celebrated in public by 20,000 people in the midlands? Just give me the year .

How many turned up at a state event at Béal na Bláth last year at a commemoration for an IRA leader, organised by the state and broadcast to many more than 20,000 people? Those tuning in were doing so specifically to honour that IRA leader. Those at the Wolfe Tones were there specifically for a bellyful of drink and a sing song.
If I was a unionist facing into the inevitability of a united Ireland, I think I'd probably be a bit more uncomfortable with the fact that the state organises IRA commemorations and televises them live on the state broadcaster, than by a crowd at an electric picnic concert. So the claim from certain quarters in the south over the last 24 hours that they are just worried about "unionist concerns" don't sound all that genuine from what I can see. To me, it's just another exercise in the "Old IRA good, PIRA bad" revisionist nonsense.

For people who have suffered at the hands of IRA violence they find it offensive. Surely you can see that? If that was a huge tent in East Belfast and everyone singing up to their knees in Fenian blood would you be offended?
I keep saying it, people want a United Ireland but these people don't want to have to do any of the work to achieve it.

What do you mean "if"? You maybe missed it (understandable, because I'd be fairly confident that Newstalk and the likes weren't able to take a break from their 'Wolfe Tones outrage' coverage to mention it, but there actually was a huge march down the Shankill Rd at the weekend honouring UVF sectarian murderer Brian Robinson, and the crowds were singing along to bands playing the very song you mentioned. Do I find it distasteful? Of course it is. Am I grossly offended? I haven't given it a second thought. I'm more offended by the people who, typically, have had SO much to say about the Wole Tones, but precisely NOTHING to say about the Brian Robinson parade. Leaving aside the ridiculous idea that those singing at the WT gig at Electric Picnic are some sort of a parallel to those in Belfast singing about being up to their knees in the blood of Catholics, do you think that if loyalists stopped singing about being up to their knees in Fenian blood, that I'd suddenly become in favour of partition? Will unionists suddenly become pro-unity once the Wolfe Tones slide into retirement?

Good post

Couldn't disagree  with any of that

[Snapchap]

When is the last time the Tan war was celebrated in public by 20,000 people in the midlands? Just give me the year .

How many turned up at a state event at Béal na Bláth last year at a commemoration for an IRA leader, organised by the state and broadcast to many more than 20,000 people? Those tuning in were doing so specifically to honour that IRA leader. Those at the Wolfe Tones were there specifically for a bellyful of drink and a sing song.
If I was a unionist facing into the inevitability of a united Ireland, I think I'd probably be a bit more uncomfortable with the fact that the state organises IRA commemorations and televises them live on the state broadcaster, than by a crowd at an electric picnic concert. So the claim from certain quarters in the south over the last 24 hours that they are just worried about "unionist concerns" don't sound all that genuine from what I can see. To me, it's just another exercise in the "Old IRA good, PIRA bad" revisionist nonsense.

For people who have suffered at the hands of IRA violence they find it offensive. Surely you can see that? If that was a huge tent in East Belfast and everyone singing up to their knees in Fenian blood would you be offended?
I keep saying it, people want a United Ireland but these people don't want to have to do any of the work to achieve it.

What do you mean "if"? You maybe missed it (understandable, because I'd be fairly confident that Newstalk and the likes weren't able to take a break from their 'Wolfe Tones outrage' coverage to mention it, but there actually was a huge march down the Shankill Rd at the weekend honouring UVF sectarian murderer Brian Robinson, and the crowds were singing along to bands playing the very song you mentioned. Do I find it distasteful? Of course it is. Am I grossly offended? I haven't given it a second thought. I'm more offended by the people who, typically, have had SO much to say about the Wole Tones, but precisely NOTHING to say about the Brian Robinson parade. Leaving aside the ridiculous idea that those singing at the WT gig at Electric Picnic are some sort of a parallel to those in Belfast singing about being up to their knees in the blood of Catholics, do you think that if loyalists stopped singing about being up to their knees in Fenian blood, that I'd suddenly become in favour of partition? Will unionists suddenly become pro-unity once the Wolfe Tones slide into retirement?

Collins founded the partionist State. He led a war against people who wanted the 32 counties with the aid of the Brits who sponsored armoured cars. He also shafted the nationalist population of the North.  Béal na mBláth is not a good debating point for a Northern Shinner.

Why weren't Mary Lou and Pearse Óg  in the tent for the singalong? Because they are not stupid. If they want to win, they can't f**k anything up.

Except the basis of your argument wasn't about the nuances of the Treaty. It was about a supposed concern for unionists sensitivities. Do you think unionists looked at the commemoration of Béal na mBláth and saw it as a celebration of partition? Come on now. They would have seen it for what it was: a commemoration of an IRA leader.

Did you condemn that event, out of concern for how unionists would/could perceive it and be put off the idea of a united Ireland by it? After all, is it not fair to say that a unionist might be more concerned about a potential united Ireland when they see that the state in the south organises IRA commemorations, than they would be about Wolfe Tones doing a set at Electric Picnic?