An Dún v Muineachán

[redandblackjack]

Cloc mor, at least the panelists have the balls to give it a go and stick it out, if everyone adopted the attitude of the longstone boys who didnt have the balls for the long haul then we wouldn't even have beat Cavan. Good players don't just grow on trees.
Would the lonstone boys (and the rest) have jacked it in if down were tipped for glory this year? Smacks of glory hunters to me.

You talk about the subs having pride in themselves, they obviously have a bit of pride in their county or else they would have 'pulled the pin'!!!

IMO the players that left the panel should be left off it next year as they obviously don't have the commitment required!

[Cloc Mor]

Cloc mor, at least the panelists have the balls to give it a go and stick it out, if everyone adopted the attitude of the longstone boys who didnt have the balls for the long haul then we wouldn't even have beat Cavan. Good players don't just grow on trees.

How do you work that one out?

Would the lonstone boys (and the rest) have jacked it in if down were tipped for glory this year? Smacks of glory hunters to me.

Surely a glory hunter would still be in the panel.  No?  Doesnt make sense


The point I was making was that Carr has no faith in these subs or he would have put some of them on.  Why should they waste their time when they are not going to get playing?  Clubs are losing out by not having these players but some are happy just to take the free tracksuit and all that goes with being a 'county player.' 

[thewobbler]

f**k me, how disappointing was that?

Here's the long and the short of it. Under Paddy O'Rourke, Down had a number of serious problems that he seemed to pay little or no heed to.

1. We weren't able to compete in the breaking-ball stakes.
2. Our keeper hit the same kickout every single time.
3. A defence that was individually weak was never given the support it needed, i.e an extra man, or withdrawn wing-forwards.
4. The team tried to bring Coulter into the game at every opportunity, even when it was absolutely the wrong option.
5. Key players looked shorn of confidence.

And the most worrying thing is that every single one of those problems was evident as strongly as ever in Newry today.


Down conceded 2.15 at home, and all six starting defenders finished the game. Our slowest defender was asked to mark one of the quickest players in Ireland for the final quarter.

Here's a simple message for Ross Carr. Our defence isn't strong enough to keep us in games. They need help. Stop being so f**king proud, and just bring a man or two back.

[redandblackjack]

well the simple answer for that is if you think about what i said you will find that if everyone adopted the 'quitter' attitude then how would training etc have gone ahead?? You need 30 players to train you know!! Duh!

No the glory hunter would not still be on the panel, maybe you didn't notice but down are hardly all ireland contenders these days are they??
Answer this one- do you seriously believe them fellas would have walked if down were serious contenders this year for ulster or a run in the all ireland?

What is the point in picking at things like- carr doesnt have faith in players? Reality is Ross has identified players who he thinks will develop in time with match experience, you highlight McGuigan for a grilling, he is as good as there is at the moment although Dee Rafferty would step into that position.

Any fella on that panel is there on MERIT this year and in time will get the chance, the question mark is on the ones who chose to walk out when the going got tough.
By the way every club in Ireland suffers because of their county team.

Does that make anymore sense?

'players but some are happy just to take the free tracksuit and all that goes with being a 'county player.'
you will find that the players who walked received gear and then did the runner, doesn't say much for them does it Cloc?

[Mourne Rover]

Everyone knows our defence needs to improve, but Cloc Mor's assessment is as harsh as his language. What CM ignores is that we were up against a fine side today, who were exceptionally well organised, strong down the middle and got every big decision from the referee. Most defenders would find it difficult against the likes of Hanratty, Finlay and Freeman in those circumstances.

Clarke and Grant actually had decent enough games, while Cole also did well. There's no doubt that McGuigan struggled throughout and Scullion, even if less than completely match fit, would have been an option. Rooney and Murtagh never really got going, and McVeigh, while he had little chance with either goal, found it hard to find our midfielders with some of his kick-outs.

When we did get the ball to big Dan, he was immense and took a wonder point after a fantastic catch in the first half. He was targeted repeatedly by Monaghan throughout the game, and got very little out of the referee. Dan regularly took catches and then had frees given against him for overcarrying. When the same thing happened to the Monaghan midfielder, he got the free which led directly to their crucial second goal.

Murphy's lack of height is a problem at midfield, but his pace and ability to take a score is impressive. His point before the break could easily have been a goal but he faded in the heat late on and probably should have been replaced.

McGovern, even though he kicked three frees plus a point from play, had his worst game to date for Down and should also have been replaced earlier after he was caught in possession time after time in the first half. The incident when he lost the ball just as he should have been able to take a score and they went straight down the field for Hanratty's first goal was a disaster.   

Sexton worked himself into the ground without having a lot to show for it, but Carr found space, picked out our forwards in the corners and hit some great frees. It was just a pity he missed one near the end which could have put the pressure on Monaghan.

Hughes dropped deep but by his standards was ordinary and probably should have been changed. Downey was poor, and his goal was a bad mistake by the keeper, but he is young enough to come again.

I heard some Down fans complaining about Benny but he kept winning the ball and laying it off well even though he just couldn't score. One pass to McComiskey was brilliant, and he was also hauled down by a marker who was already on a yellow before the break. The ref bottled it and gave him a tick instead of a red.

McComiskey was everywhere when he came on and will have to start the next time, while Kearney also made a big difference. Walsh looked as though he needed the game, missed one sitter but at least kicked a decent point late on.

Good luck to Monaghan, who will give Derry all they want in the semi. We were two up with seven to go, but then they outscored us by 1-4 to 0-2 which tells its own story. They also hit quite a few wides from fairly easy positions, apart from the closing stages when everything they kicked went over.

It's probably unfair to go on about the referee, but there was some blatant time-wasting by Monaghan towards the end which he failed to add on and several of the key frees against Down looked very generous decisions.

Down are on a learning curve, and very few of us really thought we could win an Ulster title this year. However, given the improvement since the league, we might just produce a provincial challenge in 08 or 09. The qualifiers are a roll of the dice, but, on our day, we are capable of giving most of our potential opponents a game.

While I agree with some of Wobbler's criticisms, there are not many teams who will score 1-15 and lose in the Ulster Championship.
It's a pity that, after three games, we still have to go into the first round of the open draw, but we are certainly not without hope. If anyone is asking who we want, I'll take Armagh.

[Armaghtothebone]

My sympathies to Down.We know what its like going out of Ulster early.please God may we miss ye in the qualifiers.
What I really wanted to say was that maybe now Ross and Dj will take a fundamental look at the style of play you are using.The days of 6 2 6 are gone, yet Down seem to insist on playing that way.
The first thing McAlinden and Canavan did at Armagh was work on the defence.I think your manager needs to address that.
God almighty ye scored 1 15 today and still lost!!!   

[No1]

What a crock of shite today.  That Monaghan team were there for the taking today and we bottled it.  

To put McGuigan back on your man after the roasting he got the first time was suicide.  Stevie Wonder coulda seen what was gonna happen.

Aidan Carr isn't worth two fucks at senior county level, there are boys playing for our reserves who would have contributed what he did today.

Inter county forwards who won't shoot from 30 yards out, WTF is that about??

Not only was James McGovern poor up front but he was the direct cause of three Monaghan points.

Forget about the qualifiers because we just don't do them.

It's f**king depressing and make no mistake.

[Caitlin]

No1, Cloc Mor-were you at any league games ? We know the defence is limited but I don't think there are any better. The only 'Stone player within an ass's roar of the team is Ambrose and we need him back in midfield to allow Paul Murphy to drop back and, along with Doyle, that will tighten the defence. Mc Guigan had unenviable tasks today- imagine Dan Mc Cartan in that heat and that pace- and Dee Rafferty would have been an ideal man to help out.
My real disappointments were the three full-forwards and Mc Govern- unless the Monaghan defence is good, they need to look at the way Kearney and Mc Comiskey ( again) got tore in and shot first time.
Anyway, the 3 championship displays have been miles better than we could have hoped for - phrases like crock of shite are a load of shite- I'm a lot more optimistic this year than after Ballybofey last year.

[Cloc Mor]

No 1, you had better watch your language or the Mourne Rover will be complaining about your language.lol  Apparently my assessment of Down's performance was as harsh as my language, according to MR.  Read the thing man - I could have said alot worse using more colourful language.  Wise up

[Pangurban]

Every Down player on that field today did his best, the game was lost by managements failure to address the glaring weaknesses in our defence, Failure to provide Gordon with a temporary breather in that heat, by switching him and Benny occasionally, failure to introduce Walsh and Mc Comiskey when the game was poised for the taking. If ever proof were needed that Ross and Dj have not yet got what it takes for county management,it was provided in abundance today.

[Armagh Exile]

What odds for a Down v Armagh 1st Qualifer game in Newry?

[pedro]

as a neutral at the game i have to say fair play to both teams for producing a decent game of football and although the best team probably won, down still could have took it.

one thing i noticed from where i was standing (behind the goals on the canal side) was the superior movement of the monaghan full forward line. the down full-forwards seemed content to stand bunched together inside the 21 while the monaghan three raomed about and allowed the midfield and half forwards to play some lovely diagonal balls in. could the down full forward line be accused of bein lazy??

i thought the down midfield was well on top thoughout, scoring three between them and dan gordan plucking some fine ball.

on another note which many seem to be complaining about on this thread, the down defence - although i don't know down club football inside out, i have a feeling that there aren't any players not on the panel which would have been a certainty to play today, maybe i am wrong??

finally, all credit must go to down on the refurbishment of newry, absolutely top class and pitch looked amazing

[gwan-ye-boy-ya]

brill.. gwan tommy..gwan finlay..gwan..hanratty..gwan monaghan.. bye bye down,bring on derry

[Caitlin]

Having watched the game again on TV I have to say Monaghan did well.They are well organised, have good players in key positions and are fit and strong. The Down posters complaining here are too obsessed with us to see the quality of the opposition. They had a good league, they have been away together and as much as I don't like Mc Elkennon, they have been trained well. The cynicism at the end to time waste has no place in Gaelic football and Mc Eneaney should sort that out .Mourne Rover's summary is , as always , well informed even if he has a bit of Bennyitis .Last year a much worse managed Down ran Donegal to a point in Ballybofey - Donegal have not improved that much, Tyrone are short, Derry are average so I tip Monaghan for the Anglo-Celt and I will be delighted to see them take it

[redandblackjack]

Pangurban if that switch with benny had been made and the result been the same something tells me you would blame the management for losing due to a switch like that. The management cannot win, Dan Gordan nearly threw in the towel when he was asked to play full forward in the league- he is best at mid field to be fair to him.
What is the point in kidding ourselves and papering over cracks year in year out. I for one have total faith in this managment set up, who else could do a better job? Who else would want the job?

Rafferty and Doyle would make a difference to that defence, big Ambrose would also have been useful alongside Dan Gordan today although Murphy did very well. If anything there is more competition for places in the future.