Author Topic: Who’s Been Cancelled??  (Read 5086 times)

BennyCake

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Re: Who’s Been Cancelled??
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2020, 02:12:42 PM »
Ok fair enough.

The thing is, why was it not brought up before now? An interview nearly 50 years ago, and it’s only become an issue now? I mean, people can’t have been too offended if it took 50 years to realise it.

Were you aware of his views?

No I wasn’t. Why is that relevant?

BennyCake

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Re: Who’s Been Cancelled??
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2020, 02:16:47 PM »
I hope Micko never told any Corkman jokes, or the Rebels will be driving to Waterville to saw the head off his statue.

J70

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Re: Who’s Been Cancelled??
« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2020, 02:26:59 PM »
Ok fair enough.

The thing is, why was it not brought up before now? An interview nearly 50 years ago, and it’s only become an issue now? I mean, people can’t have been too offended if it took 50 years to realise it.

Were you aware of his views?

No I wasn’t. Why is that relevant?

You're asking why all of a sudden its an issue after  years.

Most people probably weren't aware of his views or, especially, that interview.

Half of young people probably don't even know who John Wayne was.

Suddenly they find out who this statue is honouring and his right wing, reactionary outlook on life.

BennyCake

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Re: Who’s Been Cancelled??
« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2020, 02:43:47 PM »
Ok fair enough.

The thing is, why was it not brought up before now? An interview nearly 50 years ago, and it’s only become an issue now? I mean, people can’t have been too offended if it took 50 years to realise it.

Were you aware of his views?

No I wasn’t. Why is that relevant?

You're asking why all of a sudden its an issue after  years.

Most people probably weren't aware of his views or, especially, that interview.

Half of young people probably don't even know who John Wayne was.

Suddenly they find out who this statue is honouring and his right wing, reactionary outlook on life.

But people who read the interview and knew his views in 1971 obviously weren’t offended enough to call for him to apologise or his name to be removed from this or that. And apparently the airport named it after Wayne in 1979. Why didn’t someone object then?

Why didn’t someone call for his name to be removed from the airport 20, 10 or 5 years ago? They knew his views since at least 1971, and knew they were controversial. So why now?

J70

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Re: Who’s Been Cancelled??
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2020, 02:59:25 PM »
Ok fair enough.

The thing is, why was it not brought up before now? An interview nearly 50 years ago, and it’s only become an issue now? I mean, people can’t have been too offended if it took 50 years to realise it.

Were you aware of his views?

No I wasn’t. Why is that relevant?

You're asking why all of a sudden its an issue after  years.

Most people probably weren't aware of his views or, especially, that interview.

Half of young people probably don't even know who John Wayne was.

Suddenly they find out who this statue is honouring and his right wing, reactionary outlook on life.

But people who read the interview and knew his views in 1971 obviously weren’t offended enough to call for him to apologise or his name to be removed from this or that. And apparently the airport named it after Wayne in 1979. Why didn’t someone object then?

Why didn’t someone call for his name to be removed from the airport 20, 10 or 5 years ago? They knew his views since at least 1971, and knew they were controversial. So why now?

Is this a serious question?

The world was a very different place in 1971.

It was a very different place 20 years ago.

Society changes. Thankfully.

Homsexuality was illegal in Ireland into the 90s, for example.

BennyCake

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Re: Who’s Been Cancelled??
« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2020, 03:14:07 PM »
Ah come on, there was nobody in the whole of the US to draw attention to what Wayne said was wrong? It took FORTY NINE YEARS for someone to say, “holy f**k, I think thon Wayne boy was a bit racist”?

J70

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Re: Who’s Been Cancelled??
« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2020, 03:18:57 PM »
Ah come on, there was nobody in the whole of the US to draw attention to what Wayne said was wrong? It took FORTY NINE YEARS for someone to say, “holy f**k, I think thon Wayne boy was a bit racist”?

But what he said wasn't exactly out of whack with the feeling of many at the time.

Why do you think Richard Nixon was elected twice?

Why have the GOP exploited racial tensions and become older and whiter as a party?

thewobbler

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Re: Who’s Been Cancelled??
« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2020, 03:19:06 PM »
J70, if society is always changing, can we not maybe accept that someone born and raised in Iowa in 1907, might have developed opinions and ideologies that were culturally “of that time”?

If we are going to clear skeletons out of closets, there’s an awful lot of families in Ireland today have grandparents who either turned a blind eye to or helped cover up the obvious misdemeanours of the church. Personally I wouldn’t demonise such people, as their actions were “of the time”.


J70

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Re: Who’s Been Cancelled??
« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2020, 03:22:31 PM »
J70, if society is always changing, can we not maybe accept that someone born and raised in Iowa in 1907, might have developed opinions and ideologies that were culturally “of that time”?

If we are going to clear skeletons out of closets, there’s an awful lot of families in Ireland today have grandparents who either turned a blind eye to or helped cover up the obvious misdemeanours of the church. Personally I wouldn’t demonise such people, as their actions were “of the time”.

I think we can absolutely condemn their actions, even if we "understand" them.

Doesn't mean we have to continue to honour them with airport names and pride-of-place statues.

thewobbler

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Re: Who’s Been Cancelled??
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2020, 03:22:48 PM »
Ah come on, there was nobody in the whole of the US to draw attention to what Wayne said was wrong? It took FORTY NINE YEARS for someone to say, “holy f**k, I think thon Wayne boy was a bit racist”?

Because those people who are determined to remove context from history, have fuelled in recent events enough to feel empowered to do so. But they’ll eventually piss off enough people that laws will be created to prevent this sort of thing happening.

five points

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Re: Who’s Been Cancelled??
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2020, 03:23:06 PM »
J70, if society is always changing, can we not maybe accept that someone born and raised in Iowa in 1907, might have developed opinions and ideologies that were culturally “of that time”?

If we are going to clear skeletons out of closets, there’s an awful lot of families in Ireland today have grandparents who either turned a blind eye to or helped cover up the obvious misdemeanours of the church. Personally I wouldn’t demonise such people, as their actions were “of the time”.

It wasn't the church who kicked girls out of the house for getting pregnant. Or who tarred, feathered, slut-shamed and beat them for mixing with soldiers.

thewobbler

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Re: Who’s Been Cancelled??
« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2020, 03:24:37 PM »
J70, if society is always changing, can we not maybe accept that someone born and raised in Iowa in 1907, might have developed opinions and ideologies that were culturally “of that time”?

If we are going to clear skeletons out of closets, there’s an awful lot of families in Ireland today have grandparents who either turned a blind eye to or helped cover up the obvious misdemeanours of the church. Personally I wouldn’t demonise such people, as their actions were “of the time”.

I think we can absolutely condemn their actions, even if we "understand" them.

Doesn't mean we have to continue to honour them with airport names and pride-of-place statues.

No we don’t. But nor do we have to agree in any shape of form with someone’s political or cultural beliefs (or misunderstandings) to appreciate the fact they’ve left a mark on this world. Taking a name off an airport doesn’t change the fact that he’s a figure of huge cultural importance to America.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 03:26:20 PM by thewobbler »

J70

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Re: Who’s Been Cancelled??
« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2020, 03:28:59 PM »
J70, if society is always changing, can we not maybe accept that someone born and raised in Iowa in 1907, might have developed opinions and ideologies that were culturally “of that time”?

If we are going to clear skeletons out of closets, there’s an awful lot of families in Ireland today have grandparents who either turned a blind eye to or helped cover up the obvious misdemeanours of the church. Personally I wouldn’t demonise such people, as their actions were “of the time”.

I think we can absolutely condemn their actions, even if we "understand" them.

Doesn't mean we have to continue to honour them with airport names and pride-of-place statues.

No we don’t. But nor do we have to agree in any shape of form with someone’s political or cultural beliefs (or misunderstandings) to appreciate the fact they’ve left a mark on this world. Taking a name off an airport doesn’t change the fact that he’s a figure of huge cultural importance to America.

You're right, it doesn't.

Same goes for statues or GAA club names.

Removing the name does not erase history.

RedHand88

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Re: Who’s Been Cancelled??
« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2020, 03:42:02 PM »
Dustin the Turkey is being cancelled.

Milltown Row2

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Re: Who’s Been Cancelled??
« Reply #59 on: June 29, 2020, 05:44:19 PM »
Carry on up the Khyber ?

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