Author Topic: The Troubles - A Secret History  (Read 4155 times)

Eamonnca1

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The Troubles - A Secret History
« on: October 03, 2019, 05:07:06 PM »
New thread for fans of the excellent BBC Spotlight documentary.

Eamonnca1

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Re: The Troubles - A Secret History
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2019, 05:19:23 PM »
Something I always found interesting was the unionist relationship with violence.

To this day their narrative is that all was well in the Ulster garden until the IRA sprang into existence for no apparent reason and started killing people, and they started Sinn Fein as a side project that sought to leverage the violence for political gain. They gained popularity because fenians are bloodthirsty traitors who live out their lives on the dole leaving the hard working prods to do all the work. Meanwhile the hardworking, law-abiding prods never vote for terrorists because prods are inherently peaceful. As for the civil rights movement, that was just a smokescreen for a sinister conspiracy to bring about a united Ireland in which prods would be forcibly converted into Papes. If the likes of the UVF ever shot anyone it was always "in retaliation for" some republican action, a narrative that appeared in the Newsletter right up to the end of the Troubles.

The reality is the loyalists fired the first shots of the Troubles because the fenians had the audacity to demand equal voting rights, an end to gerrymandering, and equal access to jobs and public housing. Unionist politicians and a certain loudmouthed preacher stirred up the mobs and organized armed militias behind the scenes. Publicly they've usually condemned loyalist violence (in much more muted language than their condemnation of republican violence) and refused to take any responsibility for creating the perfect conditions for said loyalist violence. But they were always happy to leverage any benefit from the threat of loyalist violence.

As for the "bloodthirsty fenians" claim, the SDLP were consistently the biggest nationalist party during the Troubles. It wasn't until quite a while after the ceasefire that SF started to eclipse them. Mainstream nationalism has always been inherently peaceful, which is more than can be said for mainstream unionism that has always had a shady behind-the-scenes relationship with the loyalist death squads.

dec

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Re: The Troubles - A Secret History
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2019, 06:24:19 PM »
Eamonn, you are based in the US, have you been able to watch it, if so now?

Eamonnca1

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Re: The Troubles - A Secret History
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2019, 06:30:30 PM »
Youtube

t_mac

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Re: The Troubles - A Secret History
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2019, 09:49:32 PM »

cadhlancian

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Re: The Troubles - A Secret History
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2019, 04:14:13 AM »
Iím in San Diego , Iíve watched all four episodes on YouTube 😎
Good series

Eamonnca1

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Re: The Troubles - A Secret History
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2019, 04:41:48 AM »

brokencrossbar1

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Re: The Troubles - A Secret History
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2019, 08:22:30 AM »
To be honest itís good to a point but it is still quite sanitised. I know there are 3 shows left but it has been quite light on loyalist terrorism in my opinion. I also question the motivation of the contributions of some of them and also their veracity. The episode that showed about Loughall was good but I think the biggest question that needed to be asked was not asked. Not one person asked the question why were there no arrests whatsoever. The Security forces knew what was coming, they knew who was doing it and they could have arrested them. It was a deliberate wipeout, shoot to kill. That bugs me that it was somewhat brushed over. The East Tyrone brigade was the most deadly and it was a clear policy to annihilate them.

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Re: The Troubles - A Secret History
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2019, 09:04:27 AM »
To be honest itís good to a point but it is still quite sanitised. I know there are 3 shows left but it has been quite light on loyalist terrorism in my opinion. I also question the motivation of the contributions of some of them and also their veracity. The episode that showed about Loughall was good but I think the biggest question that needed to be asked was not asked. Not one person asked the question why were there no arrests whatsoever. The Security forces knew what was coming, they knew who was doing it and they could have arrested them. It was a deliberate wipeout, shoot to kill. That bugs me that it was somewhat brushed over. The East Tyrone brigade was the most deadly and it was a clear policy to annihilate them.

Who compromised the operation. Was a lot of IRA spin about one of those who was killed that let it slip. But I often wonder if the information came from the very top of the IRA.

BennyCake

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Re: The Troubles - A Secret History
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2019, 09:19:41 AM »
To be honest itís good to a point but it is still quite sanitised. I know there are 3 shows left but it has been quite light on loyalist terrorism in my opinion. I also question the motivation of the contributions of some of them and also their veracity. The episode that showed about Loughall was good but I think the biggest question that needed to be asked was not asked. Not one person asked the question why were there no arrests whatsoever. The Security forces knew what was coming, they knew who was doing it and they could have arrested them. It was a deliberate wipeout, shoot to kill. That bugs me that it was somewhat brushed over. The East Tyrone brigade was the most deadly and it was a clear policy to annihilate them.

Yes, and there was one innocent man shot and killed and there nearly could have been others too. Obviously the general public didnít matter a shite to security forces, mi5, and ultimately no 10. What if a bus full of people had been driving past and dozens killed from the blast or shooting? People were just collateral damage. Disgusting.

brokencrossbar1

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Re: The Troubles - A Secret History
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2019, 09:25:58 AM »
To be honest itís good to a point but it is still quite sanitised. I know there are 3 shows left but it has been quite light on loyalist terrorism in my opinion. I also question the motivation of the contributions of some of them and also their veracity. The episode that showed about Loughall was good but I think the biggest question that needed to be asked was not asked. Not one person asked the question why were there no arrests whatsoever. The Security forces knew what was coming, they knew who was doing it and they could have arrested them. It was a deliberate wipeout, shoot to kill. That bugs me that it was somewhat brushed over. The East Tyrone brigade was the most deadly and it was a clear policy to annihilate them.

Who compromised the operation. Was a lot of IRA spin about one of those who was killed that let it slip. But I often wonder if the information came from the very top of the IRA.

Itís quite clear it came from the top. You can tell an awful lot about people and the friends they keep ....

Milltown Row2

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Re: The Troubles - A Secret History
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2019, 10:01:12 AM »
To be honest itís good to a point but it is still quite sanitised. I know there are 3 shows left but it has been quite light on loyalist terrorism in my opinion. I also question the motivation of the contributions of some of them and also their veracity. The episode that showed about Loughall was good but I think the biggest question that needed to be asked was not asked. Not one person asked the question why were there no arrests whatsoever. The Security forces knew what was coming, they knew who was doing it and they could have arrested them. It was a deliberate wipeout, shoot to kill. That bugs me that it was somewhat brushed over. The East Tyrone brigade was the most deadly and it was a clear policy to annihilate them.

Who compromised the operation. Was a lot of IRA spin about one of those who was killed that let it slip. But I often wonder if the information came from the very top of the IRA.

Itís quite clear it came from the top. You can tell an awful lot about people and the friends they keep ....

Those lads knew what they were getting themselves into when they signed up, at that time the shoot to kill policy was well known, so the risks were high and they were willing to die during a gun battle. who sold them out will be the most nagging thing the families will have to deal with, unless they know already

 I can't believe so many of them from that unit went to do that station! Massive risk for a isolated station. There isnt as much outrage from republicans on attacks like that as they died in battle, wasnt a fair fight on this occasion but during the troubles there wasnt much fairness going on
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

OgraAnDun

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Re: The Troubles - A Secret History
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2019, 10:19:26 AM »
To be honest itís good to a point but it is still quite sanitised. I know there are 3 shows left but it has been quite light on loyalist terrorism in my opinion. I also question the motivation of the contributions of some of them and also their veracity. The episode that showed about Loughall was good but I think the biggest question that needed to be asked was not asked. Not one person asked the question why were there no arrests whatsoever. The Security forces knew what was coming, they knew who was doing it and they could have arrested them. It was a deliberate wipeout, shoot to kill. That bugs me that it was somewhat brushed over. The East Tyrone brigade was the most deadly and it was a clear policy to annihilate them.

It should be called A Secret History of the Provisional IRA. Loyalist/British actions are mentioned only to give context to IRA actions at the same time. Ballymurphy Massacre wasnít even mentioned unless I missed it.

Milltown Row2

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Re: The Troubles - A Secret History
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2019, 11:00:47 AM »
To be honest itís good to a point but it is still quite sanitised. I know there are 3 shows left but it has been quite light on loyalist terrorism in my opinion. I also question the motivation of the contributions of some of them and also their veracity. The episode that showed about Loughall was good but I think the biggest question that needed to be asked was not asked. Not one person asked the question why were there no arrests whatsoever. The Security forces knew what was coming, they knew who was doing it and they could have arrested them. It was a deliberate wipeout, shoot to kill. That bugs me that it was somewhat brushed over. The East Tyrone brigade was the most deadly and it was a clear policy to annihilate them.

It should be called A Secret History of the Provisional IRA. Loyalist/British actions are mentioned only to give context to IRA actions at the same time. Ballymurphy Massacre wasnít even mentioned unless I missed it.

No there has been stuff on the Loyalist murders. but as mentioned light in content, Miami showband was done along with other bombings, Dundalk and so.. there was a very disturbing loyalist training video, I didn't whether to laugh or cry given the damage they did over the years, the republican feuds in the 70's were crazy
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

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Re: The Troubles - A Secret History
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2019, 11:05:27 AM »
To be honest itís good to a point but it is still quite sanitised. I know there are 3 shows left but it has been quite light on loyalist terrorism in my opinion. I also question the motivation of the contributions of some of them and also their veracity. The episode that showed about Loughall was good but I think the biggest question that needed to be asked was not asked. Not one person asked the question why were there no arrests whatsoever. The Security forces knew what was coming, they knew who was doing it and they could have arrested them. It was a deliberate wipeout, shoot to kill. That bugs me that it was somewhat brushed over. The East Tyrone brigade was the most deadly and it was a clear policy to annihilate them.

Who compromised the operation. Was a lot of IRA spin about one of those who was killed that let it slip. But I often wonder if the information came from the very top of the IRA.

Itís quite clear it came from the top. You can tell an awful lot about people and the friends they keep ....

Exactly. The IRA leaders sent these men out knowing that they would be killed.
Anthony Hughes an innocent man was killed that day. Was on his road home from work. Left a wife and 3 young daughters. When I think of Loughgall that's what I think of. With the troubles I think of all those innocent people who lost their lives. An absolute waste.