Colm O'Rourke's need for a 'socialist' GAA

[Hound]

That's it Hound -deflect/avoid.

Dinny's a broken record Ross. Consistently blaming Dublin for Kildare being shite. Can write all kind of stuff about the Dubs but never once addresses the reasonable point as to why Kildare are so far behind the likes of Mayo and Tyrone. Only that it's all somehow Dublin's fault. And then moves to personal abuse to show his class.

Pot, kettle, black. You ain't too bad at avoiding addressing the issues with regards to Dublin yourself.

You just keep sticking your head in the sand.

I've never avoided any issue regarding Dublin. But people don't want to hear anything that differs from what they want to hear.

Nonsense goes around about Dublin having 55 people being paid to roam the county identifying special talent to keep the Dubs on top. Or how we pay lads to take a week off work before every game! And others lap it up!!

Money is a complete red herring. An excuse some other counties use to explain away their inadequacies. The grant money and the paid coaches are entiirely directed at grassroots and trying to win the battle against soccer, rugby, XBox, etc. Anyone who thinks the paid coaches have made any difference to the Dublin senior football team is just completely ignorant of what these coaches actually do. These are low paid jobs done by young lads/lasses, partially funded by club members.

Of course we are second to none in looking after our senior players who get picked on the panel. But I think you'll find Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone players get looked after very well too.

If the money was the key factor, then the Dublin hurlers would be at the top table, and you wouldnt have Mayo drawing with us in an All Ireland final (when only the greatest calamity ever seen of 2 OGs stopped them winning Sam).

Why did Dublin make the breakthrough in 2011? The most important factor was that a really talented group came together at the one time. Cluxton, the best keeper of all time, Flynn one of the best wing forwards, Brogan and Connolly to kick scores, Macauley and McMenaman having their wild unpredicatibility. A strong manager to get some discipline and a slice of luck along the way. Absolutely nothing to do with money.

Another big help was moving home league games to Croke Park. In the decade prior to that, Dublin were often brilliant in Parnell Park, but couldnt re-produce in Croke Park, where the likes of Kerry, Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo beat us and were just as comfortable there (not to mention Meath and Kildare when they were Leinster kingpins and many years played more in Croke Park than we did). Now it's clearly our home ground, and we're never intimidated by playing there.

It helps when the Leinster counties are more interested in money that in their own county's development and have us playing all our games in Croker. They had to be shamed into making us play outside Croker for the QFs in 2016 and 2017. But the Leinster semi finals should be played outside Croker too. Again, the other county boards are all about the money. Sure the last time Kildare were in Division 1, and Newbridge was deemed not up to scratch, they took up the offer of playing their home game v the Dubs in Croker rather than moving to Portlaoise or Nowlan Park or wherever they wanted. Some Kildare fans blamed the Dubs for that! Of course the Dubs were delighted and would never turn down such a gift horse.

The big factor that looks like it could keep the Dubs there or thereabouts for the foreseeable future is population trends. It seems all the good jobs are in Dublin and everyone with ambition (in the financial and business world at least) has to move to Dublin (or so the script seems to go). The failure of McCreevy's eminently sensible decentralisation plan is really coming home to roost. We need a second capital to compete against the Greater Dublin region. An axis from Cork to Limerick to Galway with top class infrastructure to attact more people to work and live.

[Rossfan]

Antrim, Louth, Wicklow, Kildare have big enough populations to at least  be regular top 10 Counties.

[From the Bunker]

Antrim, Louth, Wicklow, Kildare have big enough populations to at least  be regular top 10 Counties.

There should be an asterisks after the county in bold for the obvious reasons.

[mup]

That's it Hound -deflect/avoid.

Dinny's a broken record Ross. Consistently blaming Dublin for Kildare being shite. Can write all kind of stuff about the Dubs but never once addresses the reasonable point as to why Kildare are so far behind the likes of Mayo and Tyrone. Only that it's all somehow Dublin's fault. And then moves to personal abuse to show his class.

Pot, kettle, black. You ain't too bad at avoiding addressing the issues with regards to Dublin yourself.

You just keep sticking your head in the sand.

I've never avoided any issue regarding Dublin. But people don't want to hear anything that differs from what they want to hear.

Nonsense goes around about Dublin having 55 people being paid to roam the county identifying special talent to keep the Dubs on top. Or how we pay lads to take a week off work before every game! And others lap it up!!

Money is a complete red herring. An excuse some other counties use to explain away their inadequacies. The grant money and the paid coaches are entiirely directed at grassroots and trying to win the battle against soccer, rugby, XBox, etc. Anyone who thinks the paid coaches have made any difference to the Dublin senior football team is just completely ignorant of what these coaches actually do. These are low paid jobs done by young lads/lasses, partially funded by club members.

Of course we are second to none in looking after our senior players who get picked on the panel. But I think you'll find Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone players get looked after very well too.

If the money was the key factor, then the Dublin hurlers would be at the top table, and you wouldnt have Mayo drawing with us in an All Ireland final (when only the greatest calamity ever seen of 2 OGs stopped them winning Sam).

Why did Dublin make the breakthrough in 2011? The most important factor was that a really talented group came together at the one time. Cluxton, the best keeper of all time, Flynn one of the best wing forwards, Brogan and Connolly to kick scores, Macauley and McMenaman having their wild unpredicatibility. A strong manager to get some discipline and a slice of luck along the way. Absolutely nothing to do with money.

Another big help was moving home league games to Croke Park. In the decade prior to that, Dublin were often brilliant in Parnell Park, but couldnt re-produce in Croke Park, where the likes of Kerry, Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo beat us and were just as comfortable there (not to mention Meath and Kildare when they were Leinster kingpins and many years played more in Croke Park than we did). Now it's clearly our home ground, and we're never intimidated by playing there.

It helps when the Leinster counties are more interested in money that in their own county's development and have us playing all our games in Croker. They had to be shamed into making us play outside Croker for the QFs in 2016 and 2017. But the Leinster semi finals should be played outside Croker too. Again, the other county boards are all about the money. Sure the last time Kildare were in Division 1, and Newbridge was deemed not up to scratch, they took up the offer of playing their home game v the Dubs in Croker rather than moving to Portlaoise or Nowlan Park or wherever they wanted. Some Kildare fans blamed the Dubs for that! Of course the Dubs were delighted and would never turn down such a gift horse.

The big factor that looks like it could keep the Dubs there or thereabouts for the foreseeable future is population trends. It seems all the good jobs are in Dublin and everyone with ambition (in the financial and business world at least) has to move to Dublin (or so the script seems to go). The failure of McCreevy's eminently sensible decentralisation plan is really coming home to roost. We need a second capital to compete against the Greater Dublin region. An axis from Cork to Limerick to Galway with top class infrastructure to attact more people to work and live.

You seriously think that the paid coaches have nothing got to do with the success of the senior team? Honestly? That's what they are being paid to do!!!

There is a direct correlation on funding Dublin have been receiving and their success at all levels. Look at the success they have been having at minor and especially u21 level.

Of course the points you make above are some of the reason that's have been responsible for Dublins recent success. But you can sure that the funding has been a huge factor is that success. To suggest otherwise is simply turning a blind eye to it.

[Hound]

You seriously think that the paid coaches have nothing got to do with the success of the senior team? Honestly? That's what they are being paid to do!!!

Not sure if you've been following the thread. But the paid coaches we are talking about are the single coaches in almost every Dublin club. These are 50% funded by members of the club. These are young people from around the country, many with very little actual coaching experience, but they've done their coaching badges and should have a good grasp at teaching basic skills to young children. In the main they go round to primary schools in the area and give PE classes and encourage the children to go up to the local GAA club. They have absolutely nothing to do with the success of the senior team.

[mup]

You seriously think that the paid coaches have nothing got to do with the success of the senior team? Honestly? That's what they are being paid to do!!!

Not sure if you've been following the thread. But the paid coaches we are talking about are the single coaches in almost every Dublin club. These are 50% funded by members of the club. These are young people from around the country, many with very little actual coaching experience, but they've done their coaching badges and should have a good grasp at teaching basic skills to young children. In the main they go round to primary schools in the area and give PE classes and encourage the children to go up to the local GAA club. They have absolutely nothing to do with the success of the senior team.

How many Games Development Administrators do Dublin GAA have?

[manfromdelmonte]

You seriously think that the paid coaches have nothing got to do with the success of the senior team? Honestly? That's what they are being paid to do!!!

Not sure if you've been following the thread. But the paid coaches we are talking about are the single coaches in almost every Dublin club. These are 50% funded by members of the club. These are young people from around the country, many with very little actual coaching experience, but they've done their coaching badges and should have a good grasp at teaching basic skills to young children. In the main they go round to primary schools in the area and give PE classes and encourage the children to go up to the local GAA club. They have absolutely nothing to do with the success of the senior team.

how many current GDAs are or were county players or Senior football/hurling players
eg Wayne Hutchinson, David English?
they ususlly run the nursery section of clubs or put the plan in place
they provide training to club coaches

no club down the country has ever been provided with 50% funding to employ a full time coach
I know we'd probably twin up with another club and find the money
it would be of huge benefit

the most important link in any club is between school and club, and every club in Dublin seems to have a full time person in charge of that and driving coaching standards in the club

[Main Street]

You seriously think that the paid coaches have nothing got to do with the success of the senior team? Honestly? That's what they are being paid to do!!!

Not sure if you've been following the thread. But the paid coaches we are talking about are the single coaches in almost every Dublin club. These are 50% funded by members of the club. These are young people from around the country, many with very little actual coaching experience, but they've done their coaching badges and should have a good grasp at teaching basic skills to young children. In the main they go round to primary schools in the area and give PE classes and encourage the children to go up to the local GAA club. They have absolutely nothing to do with the success of the senior team.

I see how 50% of the coaching fees can come from the members in Dublin clubs.
St Vincents Dublin,  membership adult player is €220 pa.
It]s €30 at my hometown club, where talent is naturally aspirated.

[Rossfan]

Antrim, Louth, Wicklow, Kildare have big enough populations to at least  be regular top 10 Counties.

There should be an asterisks after the county in bold for the obvious reasons.

Including Belfast there must be at least 200k Nationalist population in that County??

[armaghniac]

Antrim, Louth, Wicklow, Kildare have big enough populations to at least  be regular top 10 Counties.

There should be an asterisks after the county in bold for the obvious reasons.

Including Belfast there must be at least 200k Nationalist population in that County??

There is a need for similar drive for GAA coaching and development in the Belfast as there was in Dublin. Will it get it?

[AZOffaly]

Good question. I've never heard 'we need Antrim to be competitive'.

[sid waddell]

the most important link in any club is between school and club, and every club in Dublin seems to have a full time person in charge of that and driving coaching standards in the club

Dublin schools have a very poor record in provincial and national competitions.

No Dublin school has won the Hogan Cup since 1959 and no Dublin school has reached the final of it since 1998. Before that it was 1986.

Schools are not a big driver of Dublin's success at all.

County youth development squads are but even then Dublin have only won one All-Ireland at minor grade since 1984.

U-21 level is where Dublin have stolen a big march on other counties over the last 10 years or so.

But population base, organisation, exchange of information, working with third level colleges and having access to good facilities and expertise is not part of some overarching "capitalist agenda".

It's merely getting your house in order to make use of your natural advantages.

[Dinny Breen]

You seriously think that the paid coaches have nothing got to do with the success of the senior team? Honestly? That's what they are being paid to do!!!

Not sure if you've been following the thread. But the paid coaches we are talking about are the single coaches in almost every Dublin club. These are 50% funded by members of the club. These are young people from around the country, many with very little actual coaching experience, but they've done their coaching badges and should have a good grasp at teaching basic skills to young children. In the main they go round to primary schools in the area and give PE classes and encourage the children to go up to the local GAA club. They have absolutely nothing to do with the success of the senior team.

How many Games Development Administrators do Dublin GAA have?

Benefits of full time coaches in schools :- off the top of my head.

1. Increased participation levels and defined pathway school to club - numbers game
2. Increased skill levels
3. Increased memberships for clubs, more money to invest in infrastructure and coaching. Again the more club players been produced with a higher skill level the more competition and the benefits will be driven from bottom up.
4. They are winning the battle against rugby and soccer, Dublin have more GDAs than Leinster Rugby has in the equivalent role in the whole of Leinster. Leinster are clever though they are now focusing more resources on the province than the capital ceding it to Dublin GAA, they know there is enough there to go around, they want more Furlongs, O'Briens and Horgans.

All great for Dublin GAA but paid for by eveyone else.

As for hurling. seriously

5 Leinster Minors and 3 runners-up in the last 12 years. Prior to that it was 1 in 40 years.

4 Leinster u21s since 2007 and 2 runners up. Prior to that you have to go back to 1972.

1 Senior Leinster Title in 2013, 1st in 50 odd years.  They even won the National League for the 1st time 70 years in 2011.

The hurling success is not measured in All-Irelands but from where they were before Bertie's cash intervention supplemented by GAA money to now, is miles apart.

Nobody is saying finance is the only reason for Dublin's success but it as a massive factor.

[manfromdelmonte]

the most important link in any club is between school and club, and every club in Dublin seems to have a full time person in charge of that and driving coaching standards in the club

Dublin schools have a very poor record in provincial and national competitions.

No Dublin school has won the Hogan Cup since 1959 and no Dublin school has reached the final of it since 1998. Before that it was 1986.

Schools are not a big driver of Dublin's success at all.

County youth development squads are but even then Dublin have only won one All-Ireland at minor grade since 1984.

U-21 level is where Dublin have stolen a big march on other counties over the last 10 years or so.

But population base, organisation, exchange of information, working with third level colleges and having access to good facilities and expertise is not part of some overarching "capitalist agenda".

It's merely getting your house in order to make use of your natural advantages.

primary schools
getting paid coaches into almost EVERY primary school has maximised playing numbers in every club across Dublin

I never mentioned secondary schools

[mrhardyannual]

All the talk of money being pumped into Dublin does not explain the abject failure of strong footballing counties like Meath, Down, Galway and Cork to rise aboive the mediocrity they have displayed in the past decade. All four counties have strong nurseries in their second-level colleges, have third level colleges within easy reach and are relatively isolated from depopulation unlike other more rural counties in their provinces. The answer has to lie with the organisation of football within these counties, the standard of club football and their use of development panels/academies.

Galway, being a neighbouring county, is a puzzle to me. The complete domination of club football by Corofin for the past 25 years is a mystery ( not to undervalue the work being done by that club). The failure to address the problems in Tuam, Galway City, etc is amazing. Granted, being a dual county brings it's own problems but Galway is still split north/south on football/hurling lines and football in the northern heartland has plummeted in standard.

Mayo have an advantage in terms of size in respect to Roscommon, Sligo and Leitrim, but is highly disadvantaged in terms of Galway, even to the point of not having a decent road running out of the county towards Dublin until you reach Athlone. Seafoid may say that this is all "thuas seal, thíos seal, and it may be that Mayo will suffer for a time when the current team breaks up but I fear that he is more hopeful than knowlegeable in this regard.

If all the money being spent in Dublin was redirected in the morning into those counties abovementioned for the purpose of paying coaches etc how long would it take to make a difference in those four counties?