Colm O'Rourke's need for a 'socialist' GAA

[manfromdelmonte]

Dublin doesn't rely on the volunteers to drive the whole thing as much
they've 55 full time coaches
they're in the clubs and schools driving the whole thing with talent identification for county teams
its a huge advantage having that sort of organisation

then the gaa decided to build their national training cebtre in Dublin giving all their teams use of the high performance gym
and now the new indoor pitch being built will benefit who?
hardly leitrim or Longford or wicklow

[Dinny Breen]

We have been debating Dublin's financial doping for 5 years now. You will soon learn Dublin supporters don't give a shit and will keep their heads firmly in the sand, they won't even acknowledge playing all their games at home as an advantage so good luck on the doping. You will also learn there are a certain number of romantics on the board who believe these things are cyclical and it will come to a natural demise, they do this by completely ignoring the socioeconomic evidence to the contrary. Also Kieran McGeeney will bizarrely be mentioned in a lot of whataboutery. Enjoy the nut show!!

[Syferus]

We have been debating Dublin's financial doping for 5 years now. You will soon learn Dublin supporters don't give a shit and will keep their heads firmly in the sand, they won't even acknowledge playing all their games at home as an advantage so good luck on the doping. You will also learn there are a certain number of romantics on the board who believe these things are cyclical and it will come to a natural demise, they do this by completely ignoring the socioeconomic evidence to the contrary. Also Kieran McGeeney will bizarrely be mentioned in a lot of whataboutery. Enjoy the nut show!!

I'm amazed all the other administerators in other counties and the other provincial councils outside Leinster are so easily quietened by a very measly slice of the grant money generated, so few counties actually have the balls to stand up for the interests of the sport - it's incredibly sad. There's no advantage to a COE and a few nice club grounds when one county is getting enough money to build the same each and every year.

Here's the dirty truth - Dublin isn't even a county.

[seafoid]

Some farmers have more and better land than others Seafóidín.
I've read O'Rourke's rant and wonder what does he want exactly?
A handicap system?
Pay Inter County players?
Redraw representative boundaries?
Or what?
I'm naturally a bit tetchy this morning but I'm getting fed up to the eyeballs of rant after rant about all that's wrong with the GAA and football especially or anti Duffy rants but never a suggestion as to how to improve things.

Great reply Rossfan.

O'Rourke doesn't need to tell us what he wants. He only needs to tell us what is wrong. It's very easy. Throw in all the enemies; elitism, Sky etc. and you have yourself an article.
Next year's new format is definitely flawed. However, I read the document that accompanied the proposal (which most people seem unable to do) and I can clearly see the thinking behind them. But it's so much easier to talk about money, fat-cats and all the rest.

Colm needn't worry. The CPA is here with tens of thousands of members. They released their suggestions recently. In my opinion they're pretty embarrassing but I'm glad they published them all the same. Everyone is represented so Colm can rest at ease.

I notice at the end of the article Spilland is quotes as saying "............every county deserves a chance to compete for the All-Ireland championship." and then continues "After that, there is a problem and we need tiers, so you have different levels for different teams like you have in every county, minor, junior, intermediate, senior".

Is this not a contradiction?

O Rourke has max 2 minutes to talk. It's prime time TV.
He isn't going to write a doctorate.
I thought he did alright. Brolly writes about this stuff regularly.

The issues are huge and it has gone beyond the point where Spillane can say sure everything is grand.

If supporters feel a disconnect between the top 4 and everyone else and start to look at the competition differently the GAA will have a big problem. What was the point of analysing any of the quarter finals? What was the point of watching them. ?

[APM]

But it was always cyclical before, so you can understand why people think it will continue to be.  Then you have those that have a vested interest in not acknowledging that things have changed with the advent of paid full time coaches and players not working for a living. 
Amateurism used to mean, working 5/6 days a week, training 3 nights a week and a match on a Sunday.  Maybe a week or two off work in the run up to an All Ireland final. 
Then for some it meant staying in third level education and delaying the start of your career for as long as possible, so you could devote more time to training. 
Then for some it meant getting a full time coaching job with the county board to encourage you to stay in the country and make it easier to train and play at a high level. 
Now for some it means not working at all and living the life of a professional athlete. 

Looks like a direction of travel to me and in this environment, the counties with the money will use it to facilitate this approach.  Not mind you, in the interest of the player, who would be much better off embracing the amateur ethos and ensuring that they have some kind of a career for themselves when its all over. 

[dublin7]

We have been debating Dublin's financial doping for 5 years now. You will soon learn Dublin supporters don't give a shit and will keep their heads firmly in the sand, they won't even acknowledge playing all their games at home as an advantage so good luck on the doping. You will also learn there are a certain number of romantics on the board who believe these things are cyclical and it will come to a natural demise, they do this by completely ignoring the socioeconomic evidence to the contrary. Also Kieran McGeeney will bizarrely be mentioned in a lot of whataboutery. Enjoy the nut show!!

I'm amazed all the other administers in other counties and the other provincial council are so easily quietened by a very measly slice of the grant money generated, so few counties actually have the balls to stand up for the interests of the sport it's incredibly sad. There's no advantage to a COE and a few nice club grounds when one county is getting enough money to build the same each and every year.

Here's the dirty truth - Dublin isn't even a county.

Wasn't just about Dublin. It was about lads not committing to inter county football because of the time/work involved and no chance of winning anything and you wouldn't blame them. When Wicklow can't get players to commit it's one thing but now the likes of Derry/Galway are seeing players walk away and/or turn down the chance to play for the county.

Spillane disagreed because Kerry are in the semi-finals/final consistently and couldn't care less about anything else. Brolly and O'Rourke looking at from a national perspective and until the whole championship structure is changed you see more lads walking away. That unfortunately is a long way off as the farcical provincial systems won't be disbanded as it brings in money for county boards/jobs for the boys and county board delegates have the attitude -sure it's worked for the last 60 years so why would we change it.

Even for replays the GAA should cut the ticket prices by 50%. Income is not included in the budget so it's all additional profit they would not have accounted for. Dropping the price by a measly €5 is an insult.

[Esmarelda]

Some farmers have more and better land than others Seafóidín.
I've read O'Rourke's rant and wonder what does he want exactly?
A handicap system?
Pay Inter County players?
Redraw representative boundaries?
Or what?
I'm naturally a bit tetchy this morning but I'm getting fed up to the eyeballs of rant after rant about all that's wrong with the GAA and football especially or anti Duffy rants but never a suggestion as to how to improve things.

Great reply Rossfan.

O'Rourke doesn't need to tell us what he wants. He only needs to tell us what is wrong. It's very easy. Throw in all the enemies; elitism, Sky etc. and you have yourself an article.
Next year's new format is definitely flawed. However, I read the document that accompanied the proposal (which most people seem unable to do) and I can clearly see the thinking behind them. But it's so much easier to talk about money, fat-cats and all the rest.

Colm needn't worry. The CPA is here with tens of thousands of members. They released their suggestions recently. In my opinion they're pretty embarrassing but I'm glad they published them all the same. Everyone is represented so Colm can rest at ease.

I notice at the end of the article Spilland is quotes as saying "............every county deserves a chance to compete for the All-Ireland championship." and then continues "After that, there is a problem and we need tiers, so you have different levels for different teams like you have in every county, minor, junior, intermediate, senior".

Is this not a contradiction?

O Rourke has max 2 minutes to talk. It's prime time TV.
He isn't going to write a doctorate.
I thought he did alright. Brolly writes about this stuff regularly.

The issues are huge and it has gone beyond the point where Spillane can say sure everything is grand.

If supporters feel a disconnect between the top 4 and everyone else and start to look at the competition differently the GAA will have a big problem. What was the point of analysing any of the quarter finals? What was the point of watching them. ?

Come on, this isn't Colm's first go at this. Doesn't he write for a paper every week? He's been banging the same drum. Suggest something or stop boring us with the same old stuff.

I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying but it's terribly tiresome listening to the same complaints when it's extremely difficult to come up with an agreeable solution.

[Hound]

We have been debating Dublin's financial doping for 5 years now. You will soon learn Dublin supporters don't give a shit and will keep their heads firmly in the sand, they won't even acknowledge playing all their games at home as an advantage so good luck on the doping. You will also learn there are a certain number of romantics on the board who believe these things are cyclical and it will come to a natural demise, they do this by completely ignoring the socioeconomic evidence to the contrary. Also Kieran McGeeney will bizarrely be mentioned in a lot of whataboutery. Enjoy the nut show!!

And don't forget that it's Dublin's fault that Kildare are shite

[Rossfan]

That's it Hound -deflect/avoid.

[Dinny Breen]

The pig grunting just demonstrates the point.

[Hound]

Dublin doesn't rely on the volunteers to drive the whole thing as much
they've 55 full time coaches
they're in the clubs and schools driving the whole thing with talent identification for county teams
its a huge advantage having that sort of organisation

That's just nonsense. Utter nonsense.

The paid coaches are 50% funded by the members.

In my club there is 1 paid coach and over 100 volunteers who look after teams from underage up. The paid coach goes to primary schools in the area to give gaelic and hurling classes as PE - concentrating on teaching basic skills and encouraging them to join the GAA club. He also takes the nursery every Saturday morning and is coaching the boys U14 second team where the two parents who were looking after it gave up. Last year he'd been training one of the girl's teams, but they now have a parent to take over.

Talent identification is purely done by the volunteers. The talented guys who go to development squads are coached by volunteers.

We're on our third coach in our club and have not had a Dub yet. At no stage would the paid coach have been anywhere near been the best coach in the club. At all times their focus has been on increasing participation.

[Hound]

That's it Hound -deflect/avoid.

Dinny's a broken record Ross. Consistently blaming Dublin for Kildare being shite. Can write all kind of stuff about the Dubs but never once addresses the reasonable point as to why Kildare are so far behind the likes of Mayo and Tyrone. Only that it's all somehow Dublin's fault. And then moves to personal abuse to show his class.   

[Seany]

So Dublin are strong because apparently they have the resources and the population.  So I presume then, Antrim should be second strongest and Cork third strongest with Limerick in there somewhere and surely Cork and definitely recently, Kildare pushing hard.  Fermanagh should be bottom of division 4 also.
It's not that simple.  Of the four strongest, only Dublin really adhere to the narrative we have been listening to.  What's different about Kerry, Mayo or Tyrone.  The same thing exactly as what's different about Nemo, Crossmaglen, Slaughtneil etc.  There is a greater priority on GAA in those areas, it means more to the people there, they are prepared to put money, time and investment into the GAA there.  Let's just face up to that simple fact.  Club Tyrone has about 300 people who put five grand into the GAA in that county every year.  They don't have to do a 'crowdfunder' as a slush fund if their county happens to fall into a quarter final.  Why are these people prepared to invest that money?  Because they love the GAA and their county and the county means a lot to them.  In Derry, the whole GAA effort is around the club.  ANd what's wrong with that either?  We are lamenting fellas who aren't playing for the county as if it's some sort of disaster. But the CLUBS are getting the dividend here. And finally. Those great socialists worrying about equality within the GAA.  I remember hearing O'Rourke boasting at a GAA dinner that the Sunday Game pays him a fortune to predict wrongly who'll win and the Sunday Independent pays him a fortune to explain why he got it wrong. Is it not a little more than a coincidence that all the vocal opposition to the SKY deal has come from RTE pundits, Duignan, Brolly, O'Rourke because they lose out most financially from it. The GAA membership don't agree and don't look at RTE as benevolently as their own pundits do.  Congress, which is made up of the GAA grassroots, hammered a motion that suggested we just let RTE alone cover the games and abandon the bidding that gets our games the best coverage and price.  Remember in the so called glorious era before broadcasting rights, RTE had the monoploy and the GAA had to PAY to get them to cover the games.  And they only covered 2 football and 2 hurling each year.

[mup]

That's it Hound -deflect/avoid.

Dinny's a broken record Ross. Consistently blaming Dublin for Kildare being shite. Can write all kind of stuff about the Dubs but never once addresses the reasonable point as to why Kildare are so far behind the likes of Mayo and Tyrone. Only that it's all somehow Dublin's fault. And then moves to personal abuse to show his class.

Pot, kettle, black. You ain't too bad at avoiding addressing the issues with regards to Dublin yourself.

You just keep sticking your head in the sand.

[RedHand88]

What's the difference in Tyrone and Derry? Or in mayo and Galway? Where's the inherent advantage that tyrone and mayo have over their neighbours? There is none. Instead they relied on good coaching, good promotion in schools and good crowd funding (eg. Club tyrone). I can understand low population counties such as leitrim etc not being able to compete for all Ireland's but there's no excuse for the likes of Cork, Galway, Derry, Meath etc.