Donegal V Tyrone Ulster Final 17th July

[Main Street]

Donnelly definitely could have avoided contact lads. He took at least one extra step into McHugh. The hands went out to make it look as though it wasn't nasty - though he isn't that kinda player in fairness. More a letting him know he was there.

I still cant get my head around why a proper sin bin isn't in place for something like that.

I agree about the sin bin. A lad shouldn't be having to leave the play for the rest of the match. for an incident like that. Refs might be more inclined to be more consistent with the black card if it only incurred a 10min cooling off period for the player. After two black cards a ref doesn't want to give anymore in fear of destroying the game. The cop out yellow could then be avoided. As it stands the black card is not fit for purpose and is a controversial point in nearly every big game!

Why have we not introduced a sin bin?? Fear of copying rugby and doing it our way mentality??

It was brought in years ago (maybe early noughties) for the league in Hurling and Football and resulted in teams playing 12 v 13, 10 v 12 at times.

Cody, Harte, Boylan and a host of managers were against it and then it got dropped in favour of the player getting substituted or the black card as we now know it... the irony is that a sin bin would work really well in todays game and actually improve it from what I can see it would increase the space available and hopefully make things more open rather than the dross we witnessed yesterday.

I don't for the life of me know how Donegal are getting slated for their approach to the game yesterday when Tyrone's was every bit as reprehensible!

Totally agree. When Donegal went 4 up after half time yesterday they actually lost the game from there through impatience. Tyrone were behind but still kept 14 players inside their own 45 metre line. Donegal kept the ball several times outside the 45 for about 2 to 3 minutes patiently probing while tyrone stood their ground. When Donegal eventually took a chance and went inside the 45 they were overturned. The mistake they made was not just continuing to keep possession outside the 45 because Tyrone seem to be so programmed to keep their positions. I honestly think Donegal couldve kept the ball outside the tyrone  for about 10-15 minutes with hardly a tackle on them and they could've run down the clock. It would've been brutal to watch but not much more brutal than what was already on show. Donegal of course set up in exactly the same fashion at the other end. Another thing I felt was significant yesterday was the breeze. Ryan mchugh was able to effortlessly kick 3 long range points first half but in the second Donegal had to try to work the ball inside the 45 which they struggled to do. The team who play with the breeze in the second half get a big advantage as they ususally get 40 to 42 minutes with the breeze while the first half team get 36 or 37 minutes. That was significant yesterday with the long range points in injury time for Tyrone.

I don't think Donegal lacked patience in the 2nd half, it was more that Tyrone changed their game and made it harder work for Donegal to do what they did in the first half.  The main factors were Sean C was moved up to bolster midfield and Tyrone  pushed up a few meters and pressed Donegal harder

[nrico2006]

There is no way anybody but Donnelly knows if he did what he did intentionally or not.  For people on here to say he definitely did or didn't is tripe.  The referee also can't be 100% which in itself should not result in the issuance of the card.  I don't see how Donnelly would intentionally through himself into a man in a position (star) that left him so vulnerable to a serious injury. 

[Il Bomber Destro]

Donnelly definitely could have avoided contact lads. He took at least one extra step into McHugh. The hands went out to make it look as though it wasn't nasty - though he isn't that kinda player in fairness. More a letting him know he was there.

I still cant get my head around why a proper sin bin isn't in place for something like that.

I agree about the sin bin. A lad shouldn't be having to leave the play for the rest of the match. for an incident like that. Refs might be more inclined to be more consistent with the black card if it only incurred a 10min cooling off period for the player. After two black cards a ref doesn't want to give anymore in fear of destroying the game. The cop out yellow could then be avoided. As it stands the black card is not fit for purpose and is a controversial point in nearly every big game!

Why have we not introduced a sin bin?? Fear of copying rugby and doing it our way mentality??

It was brought in years ago (maybe early noughties) for the league in Hurling and Football and resulted in teams playing 12 v 13, 10 v 12 at times.

Cody, Harte, Boylan and a host of managers were against it and then it got dropped in favour of the player getting substituted or the black card as we now know it... the irony is that a sin bin would work really well in todays game and actually improve it from what I can see it would increase the space available and hopefully make things more open rather than the dross we witnessed yesterday.

I don't for the life of me know how Donegal are getting slated for their approach to the game yesterday when Tyrone's was every bit as reprehensible!

Tyrone went and won the game when the chance came. Donegal were a point or two up and  sat on the 45m line and played left and right and backwards apparently trying to run down the clock without attempting to break down the Tyrone defence. The onus is on the attacking team to break down the defence, Donegal didn't even appear to try in the second half. For me they were defending their lead which cost them the game. I felt Tyrone at least tried to attack in numbers when in possession, which it admittedly hard in the circumstances of a game like that. But obviously with Derry glasses on it will look different than with Tyrone ones on.

Tyrone had 14 men behind the ball for the majority of the game... yes they attack with pace when the Donegal play breaks down (or as we say now they attack the transition) but that doesn't stray from the fact that the majority of the game they sat with 14 players behind the ball.

The craic will be when they do this against Dublin/Kerry should they come up against them. Derry did it a few years ago and got slated for it but it'll be back to the old "they only pick on Tyrone" adage when the Southern Media rightly slate Tyrone for it!

I think you should see a counsellor, pal. This can't be good for you.

[Zulu]

That's why it's not a black card for me. I didn't see anything that would suggest it was deliberate, it might have been but unless you're 100% sure then you can't issue a card that ends a man's game.

[Fuzzman]

For people watching Donegal games on TV but never in person it's hard to really fathom how difficult it is to beat their system of play. Tyrone have failed over the past 5 years but you have to resort to similar tactics otherwise you get stripped of the ball and they catch you on the break. Even Dublin and Kerry struggle with it. It's too easy to say Tyrone were as bad as Donegal were.

Did anyone think the national anthem singer sounded strange yesterday? Was she just nervous perhaps?

[Il Bomber Destro]

For people watching Donegal games on TV but never in person it's hard to really fathom how difficult it is to beat their system of play. Tyrone have failed over the past 5 years but you have to resort to similar tactics otherwise you get stripped of the ball and they catch you on the break. Even Dublin and Kerry struggle with it. It's too easy to say Tyrone were as bad as Donegal were.

Did anyone think the national anthem singer sounded strange yesterday? Was she just nervous perhaps?

She was from Derry, nervous about a Tyrone wins perhaps.

[J70]

There is no way anybody but Donnelly knows if he did what he did intentionally or not.  For people on here to say he definitely did or didn't is tripe. The referee also can't be 100% which in itself should not result in the issuance of the card.  I don't see how Donnelly would intentionally through himself into a man in a position (star) that left him so vulnerable to a serious injury.

By that logic, half the decisions referees make shouldn't be made at all! All kinds of stuff should be just let go.

[lenny]

Donnelly definitely could have avoided contact lads. He took at least one extra step into McHugh. The hands went out to make it look as though it wasn't nasty - though he isn't that kinda player in fairness. More a letting him know he was there.

I still cant get my head around why a proper sin bin isn't in place for something like that.

I agree about the sin bin. A lad shouldn't be having to leave the play for the rest of the match. for an incident like that. Refs might be more inclined to be more consistent with the black card if it only incurred a 10min cooling off period for the player. After two black cards a ref doesn't want to give anymore in fear of destroying the game. The cop out yellow could then be avoided. As it stands the black card is not fit for purpose and is a controversial point in nearly every big game!

Why have we not introduced a sin bin?? Fear of copying rugby and doing it our way mentality??

It was brought in years ago (maybe early noughties) for the league in Hurling and Football and resulted in teams playing 12 v 13, 10 v 12 at times.

Cody, Harte, Boylan and a host of managers were against it and then it got dropped in favour of the player getting substituted or the black card as we now know it... the irony is that a sin bin would work really well in todays game and actually improve it from what I can see it would increase the space available and hopefully make things more open rather than the dross we witnessed yesterday.

I don't for the life of me know how Donegal are getting slated for their approach to the game yesterday when Tyrone's was every bit as reprehensible!

Totally agree. When Donegal went 4 up after half time yesterday they actually lost the game from there through impatience. Tyrone were behind but still kept 14 players inside their own 45 metre line. Donegal kept the ball several times outside the 45 for about 2 to 3 minutes patiently probing while tyrone stood their ground. When Donegal eventually took a chance and went inside the 45 they were overturned. The mistake they made was not just continuing to keep possession outside the 45 because Tyrone seem to be so programmed to keep their positions. I honestly think Donegal couldve kept the ball outside the tyrone  for about 10-15 minutes with hardly a tackle on them and they could've run down the clock. It would've been brutal to watch but not much more brutal than what was already on show. Donegal of course set up in exactly the same fashion at the other end. Another thing I felt was significant yesterday was the breeze. Ryan mchugh was able to effortlessly kick 3 long range points first half but in the second Donegal had to try to work the ball inside the 45 which they struggled to do. The team who play with the breeze in the second half get a big advantage as they ususally get 40 to 42 minutes with the breeze while the first half team get 36 or 37 minutes. That was significant yesterday with the long range points in injury time for Tyrone.

I don't think Donegal lacked patience in the 2nd half, it was more that Tyrone changed their game and made it harder work for Donegal to do what they did in the first half.  The main factors were Sean C was moved up to bolster midfield and Tyrone  pushed up a few meters and pressed Donegal harder

On tv it didn't look like tyrone changed their tactics. They defended their 45m line like in the first half. The difference was the breeze. Donegal had several opportunities in the second half to score from the same sort of range they were scoring from first half but didn't take the shots on. That was because of the breeze. Likewise Tyrone were able to score long range points in the second half that they couldn't have done in the first. I think Tyrone would have had to change their tactics if Donegal had done 5 or 6 points up. As it was Donegal only kept the 4 point lead for a minute or 2.

[blewuporstuffed]

For me Tyrone deserved the victory - Both teams retreated when not in possession but Tyrone showed some great direct attacking play when in possession whereas Donegal bored themselves to tears with sideways passing.

On another note did anyone else get caught in the crowd after the game behind the O'Duffy terrace - disgraceful that the Garda let that situation arise which could have been alot alot worse for them had someone collapsed in the squeeze and heat!

Yeah that could have been very dangerous and only for the crowd being very patient,  could have ended up in a bad crush. It seemed to be very badly handled by the guards.

[J70]

That's why it's not a black card for me. I didn't see anything that would suggest it was deliberate, it might have been but unless you're 100% sure then you can't issue a card that ends a man's game.

In that case, the "late" tackle which occurs right after the release of the ball needs to be taken out of the list of offenses for black cards. Because how is anyone ever going to know someone's intent for sure? If intent, no matter how briefly considered, is the issue, and not the action.

[Zulu]

There is no way anybody but Donnelly knows if he did what he did intentionally or not.  For people on here to say he definitely did or didn't is tripe. The referee also can't be 100% which in itself should not result in the issuance of the card.  I don't see how Donnelly would intentionally through himself into a man in a position (star) that left him so vulnerable to a serious injury.

By that logic, half the decisions referees make shouldn't be made at all! All kinds of stuff should be just let go.

Yes, they should. IMO if a referee doesn't know if it's a foul or not then he shouldn't blow as making a mistake because you were unsighted is understandable, making one because you guessed wrong is not.

[Zulu]

That's why it's not a black card for me. I didn't see anything that would suggest it was deliberate, it might have been but unless you're 100% sure then you can't issue a card that ends a man's game.

In that case, the "late" tackle which occurs right after the release of the ball needs to be taken out of the list of offenses for black cards. Because how is anyone ever going to know someone's intent for sure? If intent, no matter how briefly considered, is the issue, and not the action.

I don't think there's any mention of 'right after the release' in the rules so I don't see why it should be taken out. For all the giving out about the black card it has been very successful if removing from the game the blatant taking out of the man after he passes and goes to get a return.

[screenexile]

Derry was a damaged limitation exercise against Dublin whereas Tyrone would use it to try and win...

Yeah. . . keep telling yourself that!

There isn't a team on Dublin's level or close to it at the minute!

[TabClear]

There is no way anybody but Donnelly knows if he did what he did intentionally or not.  For people on here to say he definitely did or didn't is tripe. The referee also can't be 100% which in itself should not result in the issuance of the card.  I don't see how Donnelly would intentionally through himself into a man in a position (star) that left him so vulnerable to a serious injury.

By that logic, half the decisions referees make shouldn't be made at all! All kinds of stuff should be just let go.

Yes, they should. IMO if a referee doesn't know if it's a foul or not then he shouldn't blow as making a mistake because you were unsighted is understandable, making one because you guessed wrong is not.

Without digging out the rule book am I right in thinking "intention" is specifically mentioned in the rule? If so the ref is  in no win situation. It's like the"deliberate" criteria for handball in soccerball and impossible to be definitive on.

I would like to see the sin bin introduced as I think it would work well.  Problem is enforcing it at club or youth level.  Hard enough to get one ref at some club games and I dint think the gaa wants to create a two tier system.

[screenexile]

Hard to argue with this . . .

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/eugene-mcgee-its-sad-to-watch-desecration-of-our-once-great-game-called-gaelic-football-34891368.html