Tír Eoghain vs An Cabhán Ulster Semi Replay 4pm 03/07/2016 @Clones

[Il Bomber Destro]

There's a lot of talk about marquee forwards these days but I think it is overstated.

You look at Kerry - O'Donoghue is their marquee forward but he was held scoreless in the 2014 All Ireland final. Donegal had their marquee forward held quiet for the game, with their other one starting on the bench.

Mayo have been a top 4 team for the past 4 years now without a marquee forward.

The thing is, it's not really much to do with a marquee forward, it's more to do with having men capable of stepping up when others are having a bad day. It's not about having one forward who can win a game on his own anymore, it's about having a collection of forwards who are each capable of stepping up to the challenge of peforming when need to.

If McAliskey or O'Neill aren't capable on a certain day - I'm confident McCurry, Brennan or Bradley are.

[Westside]

Would Monaghan have two Ulster titles without Conor McManus? I sincerely doubt it. Even the two times we have played them in Ulster over the last 3 years the difference was McManus, when the game was there to be won he stepped up with scores that nobody else on the field had the ability to get. Cavan's lack of a top forward was our undoing at underage level outside of Ulster, if we had say, Diarmuid Murtagh in 2013/2014 I think we'd have at least one all Ireland. When was the last team to win a provincial title without having a top inside forward? Personally I'd consider Cillian O'Connor in that bracket.

Cavan's forward unit is functional at the moment, it's boosted by the class of McKiernan but he's not an inside forward. It's a real pity Johnston is the wrong side of 30 and has had so many injuries, he seems to be in a good place though.. Perhaps he can get back to being close to the 2008 Seanie.

Tyrone's forwards are very good. Certainly good enough to win Ulster but beyond that I don't think they are at the top level. I still believe O'Neill's character is questionable. Will be interesting to see how the year pans out for them.

[BennyHarp]

Would Monaghan have two Ulster titles without Conor McManus? I sincerely doubt it. Even the two times we have played them in Ulster over the last 3 years the difference was McManus, when the game was there to be won he stepped up with scores that nobody else on the field had the ability to get. Cavan's lack of a top forward was our undoing at underage level outside of Ulster, if we had say, Diarmuid Murtagh in 2013/2014 I think we'd have at least one all Ireland. When was the last team to win a provincial title without having a top inside forward? Personally I'd consider Cillian O'Connor in that bracket.

Cavan's forward unit is functional at the moment, it's boosted by the class of McKiernan but he's not an inside forward. It's a real pity Johnston is the wrong side of 30 and has had so many injuries, he seems to be in a good place though.. Perhaps he can get back to being close to the 2008 Seanie.

Tyrone's forwards are very good. Certainly good enough to win Ulster but beyond that I don't think they are at the top level. I still believe O'Neill's character is questionable. Will be interesting to see how the year pans out for them.

Based on what evidence is Ronan O'Neill's character being called into question? The lad has recovered from a career threatening injury, worked his balls off to be back into the starting 15, was top scorer in the league and bagged two goals in his first championship start. i think it's a bit early to be writing off the lads temperament and character.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Would Monaghan have two Ulster titles without Conor McManus? I sincerely doubt it. Even the two times we have played them in Ulster over the last 3 years the difference was McManus, when the game was there to be won he stepped up with scores that nobody else on the field had the ability to get. Cavan's lack of a top forward was our undoing at underage level outside of Ulster, if we had say, Diarmuid Murtagh in 2013/2014 I think we'd have at least one all Ireland. When was the last team to win a provincial title without having a top inside forward? Personally I'd consider Cillian O'Connor in that bracket.

Cavan's forward unit is functional at the moment, it's boosted by the class of McKiernan but he's not an inside forward. It's a real pity Johnston is the wrong side of 30 and has had so many injuries, he seems to be in a good place though.. Perhaps he can get back to being close to the 2008 Seanie.

Tyrone's forwards are very good. Certainly good enough to win Ulster but beyond that I don't think they are at the top level. I still believe O'Neill's character is questionable. Will be interesting to see how the year pans out for them.

You're talking apples and oranges.

McManus is the best forward in the country and has been for the past three years, I don't think many would disagree with that.

But would I trade McManus for O'Neill, McAliskey, McCurry and Brennan?

No, McManus is one man and the problem for Monaghan is that if you get to grips with McManus then they are in big bother. The problem with one great forward is that there becomes an over reliance on him, Tyrone people will know that best from relying on the greatest of them all throughout the 90s.

Cork won an All Ireland in 2011 without a top inside forward and I think our boys are underrated. Tyrone won an All Ireland in 2008 with a starting full forward line of Tommy McGuigan, Sean Cavanagh and Colm McCullagh - bear in mind Cavanagh was and is not a natural full forward.

I am happy for outsiders to not consider any of our inside options to be top players, they might just be surprised come the summer.

[SkillfulBill]

Would Monaghan have two Ulster titles without Conor McManus? I sincerely doubt it. Even the two times we have played them in Ulster over the last 3 years the difference was McManus, when the game was there to be won he stepped up with scores that nobody else on the field had the ability to get. Cavan's lack of a top forward was our undoing at underage level outside of Ulster, if we had say, Diarmuid Murtagh in 2013/2014 I think we'd have at least one all Ireland. When was the last team to win a provincial title without having a top inside forward? Personally I'd consider Cillian O'Connor in that bracket.

Cavan's forward unit is functional at the moment, it's boosted by the class of McKiernan but he's not an inside forward. It's a real pity Johnston is the wrong side of 30 and has had so many injuries, he seems to be in a good place though.. Perhaps he can get back to being close to the 2008 Seanie.

Tyrone's forwards are very good. Certainly good enough to win Ulster but beyond that I don't think they are at the top level. I still believe O'Neill's character is questionable. Will be interesting to see how the year pans out for them.

You're talking apples and oranges.

McManus is the best forward in the country and has been for the past three years, I don't think many would disagree with that.

But would I trade McManus for O'Neill, McAliskey, McCurry and Brennan?

No, McManus is one man and the problem for Monaghan is that if you get to grips with McManus then they are in big bother. The problem with one great forward is that there becomes an over reliance on him, Tyrone people will know that best from relying on the greatest of them all throughout the 90s.

Cork won an All Ireland in 2011 without a top inside forward and I think our boys are underrated. Tyrone won an All Ireland in 2008 with a starting full forward line of Tommy McGuigan, Sean Cavanagh and Colm McCullagh - bear in mind Cavanagh was and is not a natural full forward.

I am happy for outsiders to not consider any of our inside options to be top players, they might just be surprised come the summer.

On any given day O Neill, McAliskey,Cavanagh,McCurry are well capable of racking up big scores. I think the country will find out soon enough just how good Lee Brennan can be.

[Westside]

The point I'm making is that Cavan's forward unit is decent, it's functional and Gearoid provides that bit of extra class. We're doing fine as we are, we've got to Division 1. I think it's fairly obvious that a top quality inside forward would add to that unit. Two examples from the last 8 years are the exception, not the rule. You need a strong supporting cast of course, and the very very odd time the supporting cast will be enough on their own. But the vast majority of teams with the silverware have the All Star(s) in the front 3.

I say we need a top class forward, we really need 3 but I'd take one for the moment as a start!

I may be wrong about O'Neill but he just seems a bit too much of a showman, I can't help but think there's a soft centre there. I guess we will find out in the shake up come summertime.

[cavanmaniac]

Time will tell but my basic point is that we Cavan need to stop thinking about ourselves as inferior and be happy with a good show and instead tear into the opposition expecting to win.Our young lads are winners, they don't know fear like done of the older lads and that will be critical in a few weeks. Hopefully will be the game to get this ulster championship going

I agree with you there Itchy, my substantive earlier point was, however, that the players themselves don't seem to be in a position to do this yet. I think our lads have certainly changed the psychology since the horror years, but last year against Monaghan exposed that, upstairs, they hadn't the ruthlessness and belief to go and kill the game off when firmly in the driving seat and to a lesser extent the same happened against Armagh on Sunday - after both goals there was an almost instinctive slackening off to the point where a fairly shite Armagh side riddled with issues could have been within three points with 13 minutes to go. This 'what-we-have-we-hold' mentality speaks to me of inferiority and a lack of big game maturity, or something. So winning against Tyrone would be a hell of a step up for these lads right now I think.

I do agree though that at some stage, we have to decide are we there to win or just make up the numbers etc. - I'm just wondering if the players are there yet. Anyway, hope I'm wrong. I'll eat shell and all if there's egg on my face in three weeks, and happily.

A huge part of the game is mental, that much is certain. However a lot of it is still down to the skill, strength, power etc of the 15 lads on the field. We were playing the eventual Ulster Champions with the best player in Ulster (and Ireland if you ask me) on their team. I don't think we lost solely because our mentality for the game wasn't right, losing Martin Reilly, the effort the players had put in to gain that 5 point lead, Conor McManus being unmarkable in that second half, they were all factors.

In 2013 for example, we beat Armagh at home in the first round. We had gained a nice lead and Armagh came storming back and got the goal to bring the game to within a point (I think) and we kicked on and won. Nobody lauded our big game mentality back then, so why call it into question when we come out on the wrong side of the close game?

Armagh under Grimley in 2013 were an absolute shambles and I'm pretty sure he was hung out to dry and pilloried afterwards; IIRC Mackey waltzed up the centre of the field and planted a goal the like of which he'd never be allowed score against a team that knew what it was at.
You highlight how we allowed Armagh back into the game, yet still won, as evidence that the team's mentality was solid, I think it highlights the opposite - we have an instinctive tendency to back off when leading and allow other teams take the initiative. We were 1-9 to 0-5 or seven points up at one stage in that home match against a team that was disastrously set up, and yet had a disallowed Jamie Clarke goal to thank for keeping our heads above water, and even had the gap narrowed to a point by one stage. Yes, we went on to win it which was great but my point is that against a better team you will get caught, as shown by Monaghan. We backed off in that game and paid the price. Literally, almost to the second we went five points up you could clearly the see the seachange in our approach and we started playing keep-ball and lateral passes with a huge chunk of the game left to play - it was simply suicide.

There was an element of the same against Armagh on Sunday last too. Even worse, our defence was creaking a little too. I'm not trying to argue here or do my own team down, but only the most rose-tinted view could deny that this is a recurring issue in an otherwise very promising and praiseworthy team.

[omaghjoe]

Would Monaghan have two Ulster titles without Conor McManus? I sincerely doubt it. Even the two times we have played them in Ulster over the last 3 years the difference was McManus, when the game was there to be won he stepped up with scores that nobody else on the field had the ability to get. Cavan's lack of a top forward was our undoing at underage level outside of Ulster, if we had say, Diarmuid Murtagh in 2013/2014 I think we'd have at least one all Ireland. When was the last team to win a provincial title without having a top inside forward? Personally I'd consider Cillian O'Connor in that bracket.

Cavan's forward unit is functional at the moment, it's boosted by the class of McKiernan but he's not an inside forward. It's a real pity Johnston is the wrong side of 30 and has had so many injuries, he seems to be in a good place though.. Perhaps he can get back to being close to the 2008 Seanie.

Tyrone's forwards are very good. Certainly good enough to win Ulster but beyond that I don't think they are at the top level. I still believe O'Neill's character is questionable. Will be interesting to see how the year pans out for them.

Ahh injuries was that what kept him off  the team for so long?

[omaghjoe]

Once your talking about having a positive mentality or winners attitude, conviction or whatever your already fucked.

Hard luck lads

[seafoid]

Can avant was good but he wasn't the best ever .

[omaghjoe]

S pur cells a right footballer but not so good in the blood

[Westside]

Niall Murray had a poor league final after coming on, and a poor game on Sunday. Ciaran Brady can consider himself hard done by if he doesn't get a chance against Tyrone. Unless course Gerry Smith or McEnroe are showing enough in training to pip him to a position. Smith is an absolute flyer and is very good on the ball, I expect he will get a good chance to prove himself.
I think Terry might be beginning to doubt Killian Brady's ability against the better opposition so I don't think he will start. Argue has been poor but I think he will keep his place.

How are the Tyrone fans feeling about this Ulster campaign? Would there be big celebrations or is it all about the big one?

[SkillfulBill]

Niall Murray had a poor league final after coming on, and a poor game on Sunday. Ciaran Brady can consider himself hard done by if he doesn't get a chance against Tyrone. Unless course Gerry Smith or McEnroe are showing enough in training to pip him to a position. Smith is an absolute flyer and is very good on the ball, I expect he will get a good chance to prove himself.
I think Terry might be beginning to doubt Killian Brady's ability against the better opposition so I don't think he will start. Argue has been poor but I think he will keep his place.

How are the Tyrone fans feeling about this Ulster campaign? Would there be big celebrations or is it all about the big one?

I think most Tyrone people believe if this team is to push on an Ulster Title would be a massive boost at this stage. However the back door holds no fear for us either. We have managed to make 2 All Ireland finals and another 2 Alll Ireland semi's via the qualifiers. But an Ulster Title would be very welcome.

[ONeill]

Niall Murray had a poor league final after coming on, and a poor game on Sunday. Ciaran Brady can consider himself hard done by if he doesn't get a chance against Tyrone. Unless course Gerry Smith or McEnroe are showing enough in training to pip him to a position. Smith is an absolute flyer and is very good on the ball, I expect he will get a good chance to prove himself.
I think Terry might be beginning to doubt Killian Brady's ability against the better opposition so I don't think he will start. Argue has been poor but I think he will keep his place.

How are the Tyrone fans feeling about this Ulster campaign? Would there be big celebrations or is it all about the big one?

Probably the most important Ulster tilt in a long while. Serious momentum and belief has been built up through the McKenna and NFL unbeaten run. To lose to Cavan, Monaghan or Donegal now and the old fears will rear their head.

No point in saying otherwise, Tyrone are looking at an AI final at least but....and it's a big but....Tyrone have to beat one of Dublin, Mayo, Kerry or Donegal to show any important progression. It has been a long, long time since Tyrone have won a game as underdog.

[omagh_gael]

I'd say you'd have to go back to 2008 AI final to find the last game we won coming in as underdogs. The draws to get to the AI semi finals in '13 and '15 were extremely kind to us. I'd say Mickey would bite yer hand off to get an Anglo Celt this year instead of trapezing around the country.