Figuring out who is catholic on the NI soccer panel

[BennyCake]

Partition was talked about pre-1920. Carson and his German guns, UVF threats to use same guns if Home Rule granted.

My question is, had the British govt just washed their hands with Ireland and left the Unionists to their own devices, what would have happened? I mean, what did Britain really stand to gain remaining in Ireland, as they were already under pressure since 1916 (and look how much trouble it's been for them since). Unionists on another island, why didn't they just say "feck them!". I mean, the Brits abandoned many unionists in border counties. A few hundred thousand in what became the North they could've easily abandoned too. It wouldn't have cost them a second thought.

[stew]

As far as I recall from a TV programme there were 3 on the Commission- Eoin Mac Néill, a Brit Judge and a South African one.
They other 2 outvoted Mac Neill all along and basically dismissed all Free State demands for Derry, South Armagh, Fermanagh etc.
Stormont wanted North Monaghan and East Donegal.
Ended up leaving the border as it was and the FS got absolved from some payments to the Brits ( land annuities or British Govt debts?)
Cosgrove called it a " damn good bargain".
What was the FS to do then?
Raise a big conscript army ( with no money to pay them) and invade the 6Cos?
Can you imagine how many Catholics would have been murdered in Belfast, Antrim north Armagh, etc....50,000?
Then we'd have to take revenge in Fermanagh, Tyrone, south Down etc
...

So they fecked us over for money? Brilliant
[/quote

As far as I recall from a TV programme there were 3 on the Commission- Eoin Mac Néill, a Brit Judge and a South African one.
They other 2 outvoted Mac Neill all along and basically dismissed all Free State demands for Derry, South Armagh, Fermanagh etc.
Stormont wanted North Monaghan and East Donegal.
Ended up leaving the border as it was and the FS got absolved from some payments to the Brits ( land annuities or British Govt debts?)
Cosgrove called it a " damn good bargain".
What was the FS to do then?
Raise a big conscript army ( with no money to pay them) and invade the 6Cos?
Can you imagine how many Catholics would have been murdered in Belfast, Antrim north Armagh, etc....50,000?
Then we'd have to take revenge in Fermanagh, Tyrone, south Down etc
...

So they fecked us over for money? Brilliant

The government side felt that a boundary of some sort, and partition, had been on the cards for years. If the boundary was moved towards Belfast it would be harder to eliminate in the long term. Kevin O'Higgins pondered:


...whether the Boundary Commission at any time was a wonderful piece of constructive statesmanship, the shoving up of a line, four, five or ten miles, leaving the Nationalists north of that line in a smaller minority than is at present the case, leaving the pull towards union, the pull towards the south, smaller and weaker than is at present the case.

On 9 December a deputation of Irish nationalists from Northern Ireland arrived to make their views known to the Dáil, but were turned away.[

Hows that going?? Explain long term?

O'Higgins thought that perhaps if people from a nationalist bakcground became a majority in NI that partition might end  and of course this will soon happen, but would not have happened if Derry etc had been transferred into the 26 counties.. When he hasn't reckoned on was on them becoming "Northern Irish" and supporting sectarian sporting teams and the like.

I for one am not nor ever will be northern Irish, I am Irish, period, end of.

Which lads on the north's team are sectarian then?

Grow uo man, its a game of football  for frigs sake.

[armaghniac]

I for one am not nor ever will be northern Irish, I am Irish, period, end of.

Which lads on the north's team are sectarian then?

Grow uo man, its a game of football  for frigs sake.

I didn't make any statement about the people on the team, I said the place they represent was a place which exists to promote sectarianism.

And as for growing up, this is a discussion board, it is perfectly grown up to discuss and state things which some people prefer to ignore.

[king of leon]

I think you might see a lot more young Catholics representing NI in the near future.

The IFA are doing a lot of work in the the youth development squads to promote an all inclusive culture to help cut out young lads changing allegiance.

I think we will always see some cross over but you have to give them credit for trying to do something.

I would agree ref Windsor Park, it's not a great place for a catholic to have to go to, but again Belfast is beginning to regenerate itself so some of the areas down that way may tidy themselves up.

The main problem is the supporters, vast majority are socially deprived and unfortunately don't have the education or leadership behind them to try and promote a all inclusive atmosphere at games.

[Rossfan]

An oul' neutral anthem just for the team would be a start.

[seafoid]

An oul' neutral anthem just for the team would be a start.

it would be welcomed as another assault on loyalist culture I imagine

[OgraAnDun]

Partition was talked about pre-1920. Carson and his German guns, UVF threats to use same guns if Home Rule granted.

My question is, had the British govt just washed their hands with Ireland and left the Unionists to their own devices, what would have happened? I mean, what did Britain really stand to gain remaining in Ireland, as they were already under pressure since 1916 (and look how much trouble it's been for them since). Unionists on another island, why didn't they just say "feck them!". I mean, the Brits abandoned many unionists in border counties. A few hundred thousand in what became the North they could've easily abandoned too. It wouldn't have cost them a second thought.

The Curragh Mutiny showed that the British Army in Ireland couldn't be trusted to fight against Unionists, in the event of Westminster saying 'to hell with the Protestants' they could have decided to row in with the UVF. Also, plenty of Ulster Unionists were in the House of Lords and best mates with other peers who would probably have blocked any attempts at 'abandoning' the north.

[T Fearon]

To get back to the question,I reckon 5 of NIs squad of 22 named today are Catholic.In mitigation the number would be substantially more if the defectors to the FAI hadn't defected.The manager is Catholic as well of course.

[seafoid]

Do you have to have a UK passport to play for NI?

[From the Bunker]

Do you have to have a UK passport to play for NI?

From wiki

Players born in Northern Ireland have a right by birth to Irish and British citizenship which entitles them to be selected for the representative teams of the Irish Football Association (IFA - Northern Ireland) as well as of the Football Association of Ireland (FAI - Republic of Ireland). In contrast, players born in the Republic of Ireland do not have such dual nationality from birth and, as a consequence, are confined to playing for the teams of the FAI and cannot play for Northern Ireland unless they have a parent or grandparent who was born there. This has been a long-running cause for concern for the IFA.[citation needed]

Players otherwise eligible for Northern Ireland do not need a UK passport if they have an Irish passport.[54] A 2006 FIFA decision to require a UK passport was reversed after a month of IFA protests, with intervention from Peter Hain, the Northern Ireland Secretary, and Dermot Ahern, the Republic's Minister for Foreign Affairs.[55][54]

[michaelg]

I think you might see a lot more young Catholics representing NI in the near future.

The IFA are doing a lot of work in the the youth development squads to promote an all inclusive culture to help cut out young lads changing allegiance.

I think we will always see some cross over but you have to give them credit for trying to do something.

I would agree ref Windsor Park, it's not a great place for a catholic to have to go to, but again Belfast is beginning to regenerate itself so some of the areas down that way may tidy themselves up.

The main problem is the supporters, vast majority are socially deprived and unfortunately don't have the education or leadership behind them to try and promote a all inclusive atmosphere at games.

You must be vying for 'Bigot of the year award' with this comment.

[armaghniac]

The main problem is the supporters, vast majority are socially deprived and unfortunately don't have the education or leadership behind them to try and promote a all inclusive atmosphere at games.

You must be vying for 'Bigot of the year award' with this comment.

On the contrary, he is going them an excuse, when of course education has nothing to do with it, rather an attachment to 17th century sectarianism.

[BennyCake]

I think you might see a lot more young Catholics representing NI in the near future.

The IFA are doing a lot of work in the the youth development squads to promote an all inclusive culture to help cut out young lads changing allegiance.

I think we will always see some cross over but you have to give them credit for trying to do something.

I would agree ref Windsor Park, it's not a great place for a catholic to have to go to, but again Belfast is beginning to regenerate itself so some of the areas down that way may tidy themselves up.

The main problem is the supporters, vast majority are socially deprived and unfortunately don't have the education or leadership behind them to try and promote a all inclusive atmosphere at games.

If that's the case, then what's the excuse for educated unionist politicans?

[Ronnie]

I think you might see a lot more young Catholics representing NI in the near future.

The IFA are doing a lot of work in the the youth development squads to promote an all inclusive culture to help cut out young lads changing allegiance.

I think we will always see some cross over but you have to give them credit for trying to do something.

I would agree ref Windsor Park, it's not a great place for a catholic to have to go to, but again Belfast is beginning to regenerate itself so some of the areas down that way may tidy themselves up.

The main problem is the supporters, vast majority are socially deprived and unfortunately don't have the education or leadership behind them to try and promote a all inclusive atmosphere at games.

If that's the case, then what's the excuse for educated unionist politicans?

It's not the case. Bigotry has zero zero zero to do with social deprivation. Some posters on here are clearly on the wind-up.

[ned]

To get back to the question,I reckon 5 of NIs squad of 22 named today are Catholic.In mitigation the number would be substantially more if the defectors to the FAI hadn't defected.The manager is Catholic as well of course.

I'd reckon 7 at least and that is only counting those born in Ireland. So might actually be about 40%.