Cavan v Armagh

[Rufus T Firefly]

I cannot agree with Rufus on this point that a failure to bring a Grimley / Geezer management team around 2006/07 broke the momentum / culture that we had built at County level. Who is to say that their very appointment would not equally have killed us off. I saw nothing in their subsequent careers in the hot seat to indicate that they had/have what it takes.

We will never know how it might have worked out. In my opinion though, conditions would have been very favourable for them. There had been a five year gap by the time Big Paul came into the fold as manager, and he took charge of a very different squad to that which he left in 2006 - the favourable conditions were no longer there and our unique 'all for one / Armagh first' mentality was gone. 

[Throw ball]

That is unbelievable response from McGeeney. I don t think there is anyway back for him from that. Clearly in a bad place with himself.
He's been at the top end of the game for 20 years. Saying the players are good and he must be doing something wrong is bizzare. He's already managed one of the better county teams (sometimes they were). What could he get so wrong?

Could be trying to deflect criticism from the players? Alternatively he may be thinking that managing your own county is much harder than he thought.

[Brick Tamlin]

Or maybe he is just being brutally honest and self-reflective.
Its refreshing to see a manager do that amongst all the sound-bites and bull ye usually hear.

On another note, im at a loss as to how Armagh would be a better panel without the likes of Decky McKenna.

[Armamike]

The guy's just being honest - that's the way he is. He knows something's up when his team has just been hammered like that. Our player base is pretty thin at the minute with good players who should be there but for whatever reason are not, and other good players who are continually injured.  But, that doesn't excuse that type of performance.

[mackers]

Whilst Geezer isn't pulling up trees with his management the plain truth of the matter is that the players aren't there.  The central characters in our run in 2014 aren't playing for a variety of different reasons and by the way it is shaping up the vast majority of them won't be about for the remainder of the year.  We have zero strength in depth with a number of players who took to the field on Saturday evening not up to county standard.  Shea Heffron is a young lad who wouldn't fall into this bracket and had been shaping up rightly but he was hung out to dry on Saturday evening playing CHB for large parts of the evening when his bag was out after 10/15 minutes.
There were comments before the Cross-Castlebar game that Armagh were missing the Cross players but that factor was overplayed.  There are only two Cross players who would have made a big difference to the Armagh setup this year and both are missing all year (Clarke and Morgan).  I think TK's best years are behind him.  Gone are the days when we were waiting on the McEntee's, Oisin and Francie to come back in to make a big difference.  Cross did exceptionally well to get an Ulster out of this year's team.
On the flip side congratulations to Cavan who played really well.  Maybe Hyland will now begin to trust in this group of players and allow them to play the football that they are capable of instead of the awful restrictive game plan that they have been playing up to this point.

[general_lee]

On the flip side congratulations to Cavan who played really well.  Maybe Hyland will now begin to trust in this group of players and allow them to play the football that they are capable of instead of the awful restrictive game plan that they have been playing up to this point.

I agree. Cavan were in doldrums not too long ago and it's nice to see the real aristocrats of Ulster football continue their renaissance.

As for Armagh. I whole heartedly agree, players are just not there. This myth that gets peddled every year "ah we are missing x y and z from Cross" is an exaggeration. Other than AK there is IMO no player that would add substantially to the team, J Clarke in his pomp goes without saying but his pomp hasn't been evident in an orange shirt in quite a while. The same goes for the constantly injured players McKeever, Donaghy, Dyas, Murnin etc. By the time they get back up to match fitness they usually get injured again soon after. We then have to rely on guys in their first year of the panel in key positions, which is no slight on them. Having said that I think McGeeney deserves more time, he's not got a lot to work with even if things are pretty pear shaped at the minute. Changing mgmt at the end of the year will just cause more interruption and will set us back even further.

[Westside]

Can I ask about this "awful restrictive game plan" we have, apparently, been playing up to now. Did any of you see Cavan play last year?

[smelmoth]

I cannot agree with Rufus on this point that a failure to bring a Grimley / Geezer management team around 2006/07 broke the momentum / culture that we had built at County level. Who is to say that their very appointment would not equally have killed us off. I saw nothing in their subsequent careers in the hot seat to indicate that they had/have what it takes.

We will never know how it might have worked out. In my opinion though, conditions would have been very favourable for them. There had been a five year gap by the time Big Paul came into the fold as manager, and he took charge of a very different squad to that which he left in 2006 - the favourable conditions were no longer there and our unique 'all for one / Armagh first' mentality was gone.

Conditions were more favourable in 2006 than in either 2015 or 2013. But I cannot see where the optimism comes from that either Grimley or McGeeney (or the 2 in tandem) would have  made a better fist of it than either PMcD or POR. On a consistent basis both men sent teams out without even the basics in order. On those points the quality of player available to them is of no consequence. All for one is all well and good and will take a team forward but to be even in the running a team needs the basics - a kick out strategy, players playing in position, no 50m gap in front of the full back line, game time changes.

[T Fearon]

The question is how could the team show so much character and fight,literally,to grind out a win against Fermanagh,the previous week,and show none at all against Cavan? Were they told to tone it down after recent skirmishes with Cavan and after the €5k fine after the Fermanagh game?

[armaghniac]

The question is how could the team show so much character and fight,literally,to grind out a win against Fermanagh,the previous week,and show none at all against Cavan? Were they told to tone it down after recent skirmishes with Cavan and after the €5k fine after the Fermanagh game?

Perhaps more character and less fight would have made a better game and still no fine.

[smelmoth]

The question is how could the team show so much character and fight,literally,to grind out a win against Fermanagh,the previous week,and show none at all against Cavan? Were they told to tone it down after recent skirmishes with Cavan and after the €5k fine after the Fermanagh game?
[/quote

Perhaps more character and less fight would have made a better game and still no fine.

100% correct.

What we don't need is the tough guy response. In the run up to games Armagh need to be cold and calculating in identifying what they need to do on the field of play. On the day the players need to keep their heads - discipline in the tackle and smart gametime decisions are worth more than physical posturing

[Applesisapples]

Lots of posters here claiming that only one or two Cross players are up to the mark. Perhaps I'm being naïve here but given that they consistently paste the majority of Armagh Clubs in the championship surely they should have a greater presence? I understand that the nature of Armagh club football is such that many posters here from outside Cross would be less than neutral when assessing the situation. So perhaps BCB could answer that one? The other question I have is where is all the underage development work going wrong?

[mackers]

For me it's actually a compliment to Cross.  The whole idea of any club or team management is get a team to play greater than the sum of its parts and Cross have done this regularly in the past and it was the case this year for sure.

[general_lee]

Lots of posters here claiming that only one or two Cross players are up to the mark. Perhaps I'm being naïve here but given that they consistently paste the majority of Armagh Clubs in the championship surely they should have a greater presence? I understand that the nature of Armagh club football is such that many posters here from outside Cross would be less than neutral when assessing the situation. So perhaps BCB could answer that one? The other question I have is where is all the underage development work going wrong?

Realistically about 7 of them could play AND make a substantial difference. Thing is they're either injured, retired from IC or otherwise ruled out!

[DuffleKing]

I didn't see Saturday's game but a notable deficiency in the first three games was Armagh's tackling - the edge and technical ability that Armagh teams have had there in recent years was evidently missing