The Official 2016 Irish General Election thread

[Hound]

Growth figures do have something important to say but they need to widened.
Should also include,
corporate tax avoidance figures going up,
corporate tax receipts going down,
income inequality going up,
education expenditure still 60% of oecd average.
so on and so forth.

Irish corporate tax receipts were way up in 2015 - almost 3 billion:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ireland-economy-tax-idUKKBN0TL1XK20151202

Curious about OECD - every OECD reports shows we spend more per student than most countries. Even in 2015, we were ranked 10th amongst OECD countries.

You're right about 2015 corporate unexpected spike in receipts.
The education figures I saw were based on actual cash expenditure on education per capita. 
Not the usual reports based on % of GDP or % of public expenditure.
 
I'll find what I came across,  later on this evening.

Corporate tax went up because corporations' profits went up!
Increased profits from Irish companies and increased FDI
More and more North American MNCs choosing Ireland
IDA and Enterprise Ireland continuing to do great work, helped by sensible business friendly government policy.
Hence increased employment also

[Maguire01]

What would the change have been to?
Sinn Féin and loony left running wild for a year fighting the EU/ECB till reality would hit home.

SF and LL  building 20 k social houses. Doing anything else would be loony. Neoliberalism is a waste of time.

Who would pay for these houses?

The gov could charge rents. How much is it paying private landlords and hotels/bnb's at the moment? It can borrow money for nothing  to create jobs.

This is the political equivalent of an oxymoron. It doesn't make sense to charge rents of people to whom it already pays rent allowances.

And as for the 2nd point, you really want our Government to borrow more money?

20,000 houses @ 150k = 3Bn.
Saving of 20,000 rent supplements @ €500 per month = € 120m per annum
Income of 20,000 Council rents@ €30 per week = €31.2 m per annum
Expenditure - Interest @1% =  €30m p.a.
Would be "cost neutral" after 25 years.

Although it's not about how long it takes it to be 'cost neutral'. It's primarily about making sure that people have a home.
And that calculation doesn't take into account the income tax, corporation tax, VAT etc that would come back to the government from the 3Bn you quote as the cost to build the houses, and other benefits, such as job creation, reduction in unemployment (and benefits) etc.

[muppet]

Growth figures do have something important to say but they need to widened.
Should also include,
corporate tax avoidance figures going up,
corporate tax receipts going down,
income inequality going up,
education expenditure still 60% of oecd average.
so on and so forth.

Irish corporate tax receipts were way up in 2015 - almost 3 billion:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ireland-economy-tax-idUKKBN0TL1XK20151202

Curious about OECD - every OECD reports shows we spend more per student than most countries. Even in 2015, we were ranked 10th amongst OECD countries.

You're right about 2015 corporate unexpected spike in receipts.
The education figures I saw were based on actual cash expenditure on education per capita. 
Not the usual reports based on % of GDP or % of public expenditure.
 
I'll find what I came across,  later on this evening.

Corporate tax went up because corporations' profits went up!
Increased profits from Irish companies and increased FDI
More and more North American MNCs choosing Ireland
IDA and Enterprise Ireland continuing to do great work, helped by sensible business friendly government policy.
Hence increased employment also

Corporation tax is still a fraction of Income Tax. Income taxes are way too high, especially considering some of the rubbish public services were get in return.

[Rossfan]

It'd be some house if it cost €150k to build.you could cut that in half and you'd probably be closer to the figure.

Cost of buying the land, developing it with roads, sewers, water mains etc.

[seafoid]

It'd be some house if it cost €150k to build.you could cut that in half and you'd probably be closer to the figure.

Cost of buying the land, developing it with roads, sewers, water mains etc.

Councils own lots of land

[seafoid]

What would the change have been to?
Sinn Féin and loony left running wild for a year fighting the EU/ECB till reality would hit home.

SF and LL  building 20 k social houses. Doing anything else would be loony. Neoliberalism is a waste of time.

Who would pay for these houses?

The gov could charge rents. How much is it paying private landlords and hotels/bnb's at the moment? It can borrow money for nothing  to create jobs.

This is the political equivalent of an oxymoron. It doesn't make sense to charge rents of people to whom it already pays rent allowances.

And as for the 2nd point, you really want our Government to borrow more money?

To generate growth. There is no point in following neoliberal claptrap. Social housing makes people economically more efficient when it is done properly. In a few months the Gov will be able to borrow at minis one percent.

Putting the word neoliberal into every post isn't really an argument.

Here is our national debt: http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/ireland

Watch it for a minute. It isn't neoliberalism to want to avoid bankruptcy.

Without growth it won't be possible to pay off the debt. I think a lot of debt might be written off anyway. Most of the stuff bought by the ECB for example. 

[Main Street]

Growth figures do have something important to say but they need to widened.
Should also include,
corporate tax avoidance figures going up,
corporate tax receipts going down,
income inequality going up,
education expenditure still 60% of oecd average.
so on and so forth.

Irish corporate tax receipts were way up in 2015 - almost 3 billion:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ireland-economy-tax-idUKKBN0TL1XK20151202

Curious about OECD - every OECD reports shows we spend more per student than most countries. Even in 2015, we were ranked 10th amongst OECD countries.

You're right about 2015 corporate unexpected spike in receipts.
The education figures I saw were based on actual cash expenditure on education per capita. 
Not the usual reports based on % of GDP or % of public expenditure.
 
I'll find what I came across,  later on this evening.

What I came across this morning were oecd figures for public and private funding of 2nd  and 3rd level,
and the figures I referenced were only for private funding which is well below oecd ave.
But the the public funding for education is as you understand.
Mea culpa and thanks for the correction.

[muppet]

What would the change have been to?
Sinn Féin and loony left running wild for a year fighting the EU/ECB till reality would hit home.

SF and LL  building 20 k social houses. Doing anything else would be loony. Neoliberalism is a waste of time.

Who would pay for these houses?

The gov could charge rents. How much is it paying private landlords and hotels/bnb's at the moment? It can borrow money for nothing  to create jobs.

This is the political equivalent of an oxymoron. It doesn't make sense to charge rents of people to whom it already pays rent allowances.

And as for the 2nd point, you really want our Government to borrow more money?

To generate growth. There is no point in following neoliberal claptrap. Social housing makes people economically more efficient when it is done properly. In a few months the Gov will be able to borrow at minis one percent.

Putting the word neoliberal into every post isn't really an argument.

Here is our national debt: http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/ireland

Watch it for a minute. It isn't neoliberalism to want to avoid bankruptcy.

Without growth it won't be possible to pay off the debt. I think a lot of debt might be written off anyway. Most of the stuff bought by the ECB for example.

This is half of the problem.

The other half is that if you don't pay off the debt, you won't be able to borrow.

Catch 22 of the ECB Guide to the Galaxy.

[Rossfan]

It'd be some house if it cost €150k to build.you could cut that in half and you'd probably be closer to the figure.

Cost of buying the land, developing it with roads, sewers, water mains etc.

Councils own lots of land

They had to buy it at some stage

[seafoid]

What would the change have been to?
Sinn Féin and loony left running wild for a year fighting the EU/ECB till reality would hit home.

SF and LL  building 20 k social houses. Doing anything else would be loony. Neoliberalism is a waste of time.

Who would pay for these houses?

The gov could charge rents. How much is it paying private landlords and hotels/bnb's at the moment? It can borrow money for nothing  to create jobs.

This is the political equivalent of an oxymoron. It doesn't make sense to charge rents of people to whom it already pays rent allowances.

And as for the 2nd point, you really want our Government to borrow more money?

To generate growth. There is no point in following neoliberal claptrap. Social housing makes people economically more efficient when it is done properly. In a few months the Gov will be able to borrow at minis one percent.

Putting the word neoliberal into every post isn't really an argument.

Here is our national debt: http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/ireland

Watch it for a minute. It isn't neoliberalism to want to avoid bankruptcy.

Without growth it won't be possible to pay off the debt. I think a lot of debt might be written off anyway. Most of the stuff bought by the ECB for example.

This is half of the problem.

The other half is that if you don't pay off the debt, you won't be able to borrow.

Catch 22 of the ECB Guide to the Galaxy.

If you defaulted I bet the market would forget it. There is a savings glut. The  Irish 10 year yield is 1% which is insane. Anything with a pulse. Markets assume no default which is probably wrong.

[Rossfan]

I am really depressed listening to RTÉ and politicians today.
We have a major crisis ( ongoing and worsening) in our Health Service and there's a real housing and homelessness crisis.
And all I'm hearing about all fuckn day is FFrs and Loony lefties and RTÉ current affairs people going on and on and on about bloody charges for public water and sewerage.
FF are taking the bloody biscuit altogether - they agreed charges in 2010 as part of the Bail out.
Now they are on about suspending them for 5 years and doing a redundancy deal for Irish water staff and then returning responsibility for water and sewerage back to the Councils.
What next.... Buy back Aer Lingus or Eircom.

[muppet]

What would the change have been to?
Sinn Féin and loony left running wild for a year fighting the EU/ECB till reality would hit home.

SF and LL  building 20 k social houses. Doing anything else would be loony. Neoliberalism is a waste of time.

Who would pay for these houses?

The gov could charge rents. How much is it paying private landlords and hotels/bnb's at the moment? It can borrow money for nothing  to create jobs.

This is the political equivalent of an oxymoron. It doesn't make sense to charge rents of people to whom it already pays rent allowances.

And as for the 2nd point, you really want our Government to borrow more money?

To generate growth. There is no point in following neoliberal claptrap. Social housing makes people economically more efficient when it is done properly. In a few months the Gov will be able to borrow at minis one percent.

Putting the word neoliberal into every post isn't really an argument.

Here is our national debt: http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/ireland

Watch it for a minute. It isn't neoliberalism to want to avoid bankruptcy.

Without growth it won't be possible to pay off the debt. I think a lot of debt might be written off anyway. Most of the stuff bought by the ECB for example.

This is half of the problem.

The other half is that if you don't pay off the debt, you won't be able to borrow.

Catch 22 of the ECB Guide to the Galaxy.

If you defaulted I bet the market would forget it. There is a savings glut. The  Irish 10 year yield is 1% which is insane. Anything with a pulse. Markets assume no default which is probably wrong.

Maybe.

Maybe not: http://www.voanews.com/content/argentina-creditors-settle-fourteen-years-default-billions/3213996.html

Our best time to do a deal was before the Guarantee and our last chance went when Honohan cut the legs from under Lenihan. But it is way, way too late now.

We will pay it back unless our economy collapses. Meanwhile borrowing more is crazy talk, although it might help the collapse if that is what you want.

As mentioned above, we need massive PS reform. We don't get value for money and this needs to change.

But to be fair when you see what we elect, it is a wonder we don't all blow away in a storm.

[ashman]

Irish bond yields ( all euro bonds in the main ) are low because the ECb are underwriting by secondary buying . 

[give her dixie]

I see Sinn Fein voted against having an opposition in Stormont, while at the same time looking to lead an opposition in the Dail.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/mlas-back-plans-for-a-stormont-opposition-as-sinn-fein-warns-against-creating-frankensteins-monster-34503620.html

[Hound]

I am really depressed listening to RTÉ and politicians today.
We have a major crisis ( ongoing and worsening) in our Health Service and there's a real housing and homelessness crisis.
And all I'm hearing about all fuckn day is FFrs and Loony lefties and RTÉ current affairs people going on and on and on about bloody charges for public water and sewerage.
FF are taking the bloody biscuit altogether - they agreed charges in 2010 as part of the Bail out.
Now they are on about suspending them for 5 years and doing a redundancy deal for Irish water staff and then returning responsibility for water and sewerage back to the Councils.
What next.... Buy back Aer Lingus or Eircom.

Disappointing from FF, but can't blame them. SF/PBP have a huge element of the population convinced that someone else should pay for their water