The run up to conflict in Northern Ireland

[armaghniac]

There are substantial core cultural differences between northern and southern nationalists never mind unionists.But the 26 county mindset now,after 100 years of partition,is that the North and its people are a different entity and not to be touched with a barge pole.

This is like a sentence from the article by Eoghan Harris where he pointed out that the people in the 26 counties would never vote for Mary McAleese. How did that turn out.

[imtommygunn]

Northern people are generally more uptight,plain speaking,abstemious,non easy going,adherent to religion,introvert,suspicious and parochial than their Southern counterparts.All this is a product of 100 years of insecurity (both sides in the North).

I had a funny feeling the religion thing would be in there but think you are wrong.

One of the main and probably only reason ni looks like it is a staunchly religious place, based on politics, is due to the dup and no one else. I would say it is very comparable to the south and maybe even less religious on the whole.

If it wasn't for the petition of concern then gay marriage would most likely have become legal here you know. A democratic ni would have went that way but we aren't democratic here. Sunday trading and pub opening hours would change too i suspect.

Suspiciousness is hardly a culture either. Tell eamon dunphy or pat spillane the plain speaking thing...

[T Fearon]

I think if you compare church attendance per capita,it is much stronger in the North than the South.Also I wouldn't bet money on the outcome of a gay marriage referendum in the North as it is opposed by the vast majority of the church going communities,which are still substantial on both sides.

As for Dunphy and Spillane don't confuse plain speaking with gobshites being controversial in a contrived manner to forge highly paid media careers.

No one addressing the main fact,still,that the Dublin Government doesn't aspire to unity,doesn't want the North and regards us all as a different and separate people.

[imtommygunn]

I think if you compare church attendance per capita,it is much stronger in the North than the South.Also I wouldn't bet money on the outcome of a gay marriage referendum in the North as it is opposed by the vast majority of the church going communities,which are still substantial on both sides.

As for Dunphy and Spillane don't confuse plain speaking with gobshites being controversial in a contrived manner to forge highly paid media careers.

No one addressing the main fact,still,that the Dublin Government doesn't aspire to unity,doesn't want the North and regards us all as a different and separate people.

Are those genuine stats? Where are they from? On one religion or more?

I think the gay marriage thing would go through but we will never know with the "democratic" unionist party.

Spillane isn't clever enough for that. Dunphy maybe.

[armaghniac]

No one addressing the main fact,still,that the Dublin Government doesn't aspire to unity,doesn't want the North and regards us all as a different and separate people.

The Dublin government does aspire to unity, the question is whether people from a nationalist background in the 6 counties do.

[Tony Baloney]

I think if you compare church attendance per capita,it is much stronger in the North than the South.Also I wouldn't bet money on the outcome of a gay marriage referendum in the North as it is opposed by the vast majority of the church going communities,which are still substantial on both sides.

As for Dunphy and Spillane don't confuse plain speaking with gobshites being controversial in a contrived manner to forge highly paid media careers.

No one addressing the main fact,still,that the Dublin Government doesn't aspire to unity,doesn't want the North and regards us all as a different and separate people.

Tony all you are showing is regional disparity, not national differences that necessitate separate countries. You can equally view regional differences in any country. Still not buying it; however I do agree with you that there is a general "western" culture which pervades all parts of the islands. Music, film, clothes, sports, shite like X-Factor etc.

[Jell 0 Biafra]

The South.(Just a few examples).

1.Accepted partition in the early 20th Century

2.Doing and has done nothing to end partition.

3.Rejected Churchill's offer of unity in the 1940s

4.Deals with the North of Ireland under its Foreign Affairs dept

5.Bertie Ahern addressed a (mainly nationalist) audience in Newry a few weeks ago,describing himself as a "good neighbour" no doubt reflecting the limit of the South's aspirations as far as the North goes.


Equally the UK does not want us either,I would readily concede.

Why on earth would you trust an "offer" from Churchill?  I mean seriously, an offer from the ever-tursthworthy British government?  Not to mention from a man who was prepared to use poison gas on ireland during WW2?


"By May 1941 it was clear that the British were prepared to use poison gas anywhere on the British archipelago - including neutral Eire. ''The use of gas in Ireland (including Eire) would be ordered and controlled by the General Officer commanding British troops in Ireland '' one top-secret memorandum declares. In other words, if the Germans had tried to use Eire as a back door into Britain the RAF would have sprayed the beaches of Ireland with mustard gas and/or phosgene."

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12251410.Memo__From_Winston_Churchill_________To__General_Ismay_________Date__July_6__1944__It_may_be_several_weeks_before_I_ask_you_to_drench_Germany_with_poison_gas__and_if_we__do_it__let_us_do_it_one_hundred_per_cent/

[T Fearon]

Seriously I have found in recent years a greater match,in terms of cultural affinity,between the North and the West of Scotland,than between North and South.

Anyone who thinks the Dublin Government aspires to Unity,beyond occasional rhetoric (and even that is never used by FG) seriously needs to have their head examined.We are generally regarded in the South as a different and separate people,as we are similarly in the UK.

[armaghniac]

So, could Mary McAleese have left her job in Belfast and run for election in Scotland? Could Arlene Foster?

[imtommygunn]

I'm beginning to wonder about your definition of culture and how you go abou comparing it.

[Arthur_Friend]

Seriously I have found in recent years a greater match,in terms of cultural affinity,between the North and the West of Scotland,than between North and South.

Anyone who thinks the Dublin Government aspires to Unity,beyond occasional rhetoric (and even that is never used by FG) seriously needs to have their head examined.We are generally regarded in the South as a different and separate people,as we are similarly in the UK.

Just the west of Scotland? Should the East Scottish be considered a different nation of people altogether?

[general_lee]

I'm beginning to wonder about your definition of culture and how you go abou comparing it.

x1

I struggle to see how I, and the people who live around me, have more in common with people 100 miles away, separated by water and in a different country, than the people 18 miles down the road..

[T Fearon]

If someone with a Sinn Fein uncle can become a Labour MP in the North of England,yes anything can happen in Scotland.

Mary Mc Aleese diverted totally from Irish nationalism as President, she brought Her Majesty to Ireland.It was precisely this diversion that rendered her so popular and guaranteed her a second term.If you like,she was conditioning her northern kinsmen and women to the preservation of the Status Quo.Meanwhile contrast this with Martin Mc Guinness, offering strong Irish nationalism,who didn't get near the Aras.

[Rossfan]

You are wumming now Tony.
Marty McG and Lizzie W are now the best of mates.
As for Scotland - some difference between a slum dwelling Rangers soccer bigot and  a Gaelic speaking Hebridean islander ....

[imtommygunn]

If someone with a Sinn Fein uncle can become a Labour MP in the North of England,yes anything can happen in Scotland.

Mary Mc Aleese diverted totally from Irish nationalism as President, she brought Her Majesty to Ireland.It was precisely this diversion that rendered her so popular and guaranteed her a second term.If you like,she was conditioning her northern kinsmen and women to the preservation of the Status Quo.Meanwhile contrast this with Martin Mc Guinness, offering strong Irish nationalism,who didn't get near the Aras.

So what does the mary mcaleese thing have to do with respective cultures? Or the north of england thing?