Ulster club senior football championship - 2015

[Smokin Joe]

Explanation of 11 changes could be - 6 subs used during normal time - at the beginning of extra time you can change as many players as you want as long as the players name is on the team sheet - cross made two changes to the team that started extra time and then made a further three subs during extra time hence the 11 changes

Think u can only make 6 in normal time and 3 in extra time. That's 9 plus,O Callaghan replaced makes 10. Had they a black card. Still think the limit is 9 including black cards. This might not be over yet

O'Callaghan got a red, so he can't be replaced with a free sub.

Edit - you mean he was replaced at the end of the game. I wouldn't call that a sub, just that Cross were entitled to start Extra Time with 15 men.

[oneclubonelife]

You can make changes at the end of normal time and before the start of extra time that does not count as subs because technically,if you read the rules,it is a new game and as long as the players being used names are on the match day team sheet they do not count as subs

[yellowcard]

Enjoyable game given the conditions, the intensity was very high even if the quality was maybe not great at times. Fair play to Cross, I remember watching them earlier in the season and they barely had 15 men out for most league games. Even their own supporters thought that they might come under pressure to hold onto their county title. However they have grown with each game and have the winning mentality from knowing they have done it all before. In James Morgan they have a true leader and warrior on the field and he has been their best player all season even if he was lucky to stay on the field as long as he did after getting 3 yellows?? Others to shine today were Tony Kernan and both Clarke and McKenna unsettled Scotstown when they came on. Scotstown battled bravely but the game was up when Hughes was sent off for a needless late tackle.

Was Aaron Kernan booked twice in normal time?

I dont think so but Morgan got his 2nd yellow just before Kieran Hughes was sent off in the 2nd minute of extra time. I can only guess that the rules changed so that all cards are wiped for extra time?

[oneclubonelife]

Yellow  cards are now wiped at the end of the game but anyone who received red or black in normal time cannot play in extra time

[sid waddell]

Explanation of 11 changes could be - 6 subs used during normal time - at the beginning of extra time you can change as many players as you want as long as the players name is on the team sheet - cross made two changes to the team that started extra time and then made a further three subs during extra time hence the 11 changes

I've been having a look at the rule book.

http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/official_guides/2015%20Official%20Guide%20-%20Part%202.pdf

2.4 (i) The maximum number of substitutions
permitted during the playing of Normal Time
shall be Six in Football and Five in Hurling.
(ii) A maximum of three Substitutions shall be
allowed during the playing of Extra Time

2.6 Players in Extra Time
(a) Any fifteen players may start Extra Time,
except as provided for in (b) and (d) below.

(b) In an Inter-County Game, any fifteen players
on the List submitted to the Referee prior to the
game, except as provided for in (d) below, may
start Extra Time.

(d) A player ordered off in any circumstance in
Normal Time, may not play in Extra Time but
may be replaced.

It would seem to me that the two changes Crossmaglen made at the break between the end of normal time and the start of extra-time were not counted as substitutions under Rule 2.6(a). If so, theoretically, you can make 11 changes to your team (26 is the maximum number allowed on an official matchday panel) in the break between normal time and extra-time and not have them counted as substitutions.

Then you're allowed a further three substitutions during extra-time.

So, theoretically, a team can make 20 changes (substitutions), excluding blood substitutions, during an 80 minute match - 6 substitutions in normal time, 11 at the break between normal time and extra-time, and three during extra-time. That, in my view, makes a mockery of the game.

Yet the black card rule does carry over to extra-time - you're allowed a maximum of three black cards with replacement substitutes in normal-time, but no extra allowance is made for extra-time as a "new game" where black cards are concerned - it's still a maximum of three, even including extra-time.

The way the rules are written is confusing. Why does 2.6 (b) specifically refer to an inter-county game? Is there a difference between the substitution rules in inter-county football and club football? That's the implication.

Anyway, I think being allowed to make that many changes is farcical and clearly hugely favours strong panels.

I would reduce it back to five subs in normal time, and three in extra-time (including the break between normal time and extra-time). And replacing a player who has been red carded in normal-time is a rule I've always disliked.

[blewuporstuffed]

Enjoyable game given the conditions, the intensity was very high even if the quality was maybe not great at times. Fair play to Cross, I remember watching them earlier in the season and they barely had 15 men out for most league games. Even their own supporters thought that they might come under pressure to hold onto their county title. However they have grown with each game and have the winning mentality from knowing they have done it all before. In James Morgan they have a true leader and warrior on the field and he has been their best player all season even if he was lucky to stay on the field as long as he did after getting 3 yellows?? Others to shine today were Tony Kernan and both Clarke and McKenna unsettled Scotstown when they came on. Scotstown battled bravely but the game was up when Hughes was sent off for a needless late tackle.

Was Aaron Kernan booked twice in normal time?

I dont think so but Morgan got his 2nd yellow just before Kieran Hughes was sent off in the 2nd minute of extra time. I can only guess that the rules changed so that all cards are wiped for extra time?

Morgan committed an unreal amount of fouls today.

[oneclubonelife]

Thank you Sid

[yellowcard]

McGleenan can have no complaints about the ref, he needs to look at Kieran Hughes challenge again as it was a definite red and effectively ended the game. However it is an anomaly in the rules that Danny O'Callaghan gets sent off for a vicious elbow in the 55th minute and Hughes gets sent off for a reckless tackle in the 65th yet O'Callaghan effectively escaped with a 5 minute sin bin sentence. Definitely a rule that needs looked at again.

[brokencrossbar1]

I believe McGleenan made a bit of a show of himself at the end?  I was too busy cheering, did anyone see anything?

[redzone]

Anybody else notice the amount of questioning/ intimidation of the ref,linesmen, umpires by cross. Nearly ever decision they were at it. Have to say thou the movement and kick passing at times by them were unreal.pinpoint accruacy.it took all there experience today to get over the line. Couldn't make out way darren Hughes was sent of for. Scotstown player should have walked for the punch on a kernan in the first half. Thought k Hughes was the best player on the field and if he'd stayed on who knows. There was neatly 10,000 there today. Imagine what sort of crowd would go if it was a few months earlier and marketed right

[David McKeown]

Anybody else notice the amount of questioning/ intimidation of the ref,linesmen, umpires by cross. Nearly ever decision they were at it. Have to say thou the movement and kick passing at times by them were unreal.pinpoint accruacy.it took all there experience today to get over the line. Couldn't make out way darren Hughes was sent of for. Scotstown player should have walked for the punch on a kernan in the first half. Thought k Hughes was the best player on the field and if he'd stayed on who knows. There was neatly 10,000 there today. Imagine what sort of crowd would go if it was a few months earlier and marketed right

Strange I thought Scotstown were at it far more than Cross today arguing over every decision and where every free was taken from. Hughes was excellent but he appeared to be hurt moments before the horror tackle he deservedly walked for. Stupid thing to do at that stage and I think Scotstown would have won had he stayed on. 

[straightred]

McGleenan can have no complaints about the ref, he needs to look at Kieran Hughes challenge again as it was a definite red and effectively ended the game. However it is an anomaly in the rules that Danny O'Callaghan gets sent off for a vicious elbow in the 55th minute and Hughes gets sent off for a reckless tackle in the 65th yet O'Callaghan effectively escaped with a 5 minute sin bin sentence. Definitely a rule that needs looked at again.

Its just wrong plain and simple. This rule has been an accident waiting to happen and now it has happened. Probably cost Scotstown a title

[ONeill]

Some club. 1997 was a long time ago. 

[Throw ball]

Enjoyed the game to day. Both teams deserve credit for putting on such a show in arrocious conditions. It was the coldest I remember it in the Athletic Grounds with gusty wind and rain. In normal time Scotstown had a great chance to win but as happens more often than not Cross found a way to succeed. Tactically I felt Scotstown got a lot right to negate Cross but playing Kieran Hughes as full back made no sense. Cross really lost their way after half time when Hanratty went off but I felt Tony Kernan stood up to help them over the line. He and the Scotstown number 11 also had a good contest in the complaining to the referee stakes! Speaking of the referee I felt he had a very average game. For much of ordinary time he seemed to give most 50:50 calls to Scotstown and then he seemed to switch it so that Cross got most of the decisions. The call on O'Callaghan was completely correct though. That he twice this year in championship football that I have seen him sent off after a couple of minutes sub appearance. I felt Kieran Hughes tackle was a black card as he tried to trip his opponent, although a red was also possible. Darren was more annoyed with the referee than Morgan at the end.

[bannside]

They are so good that they don't break sweat in Armagh and appear fresh for the Ulster every October. As opposed to Cargin for example who knew they were drawn against St Galls last January and were hell for leather since then and by November were probably going over the top for this year.

Not saying Cross arnt undisputed kings of Ulster Club football. They have found the magic formula how and when to peak - as someone said earlier they toy about with the league in Armagh.