Is Stormont going to fall?

[LCohen]

Firstly I'd say SF are mightily pissed at the old comrades settling scores in this way. I'd have some sympathy for them in that regard. However some of their associations with known racketeers even at a lower level gives ammunition to Unionism. That said Unionists do not know the meaning of the word hypocrisy, they consort with all sorts of Loyalist paramilitaries, gang leaders and criminals in the interests of our fleg and culture. Nesbitt says Unionists don't trust SF as if trust is a one way street. I'd say nationalists and republicans have even less reason to trust PUL politicians given our experience from partition to now. PUL parties want equality but only on their terms, don't think about expressing Irish identity or ask for recognition of your symbols and flags. Just look at the NI run sporting bodies there is no on flag or anthem as opposed to the IRFU, GUI, Hockey and cricket. Unionists do not want to share power or this place. I note some of the simplistic posts from our southern brothers mainly aimed at SF (who are not blameless nor entirely to blame). The situation here is much more complicated and in the areas that McGuigan and Davidson come from little benefit from the peace process has filtered through. I would prefer that the two governments took control and run this place until a future generation that is not steeped in the sectarianism of the present can decide on an agreed way forward. I could go on and on but sure what's the point?

Plenty there I can agree with. SF are no doubt pissed that some of their associates still think that killing people is the way to do business. It will harm SF though not necessarily in the north.  The toleration of republicanism in criminality in some makes it difficult to criticise the same behaviour in others. Mike TV is being hypocritical in sharing a platform with some loyalists and his current attitude to SF

I think it is a nonsense to compare use of the flag/anthem by sports organised on an all island basis with whose organised within NI. Pure nonsense. Also some say by the Irish government is any imminent direct rule is not going to be on a pari passu basis with the UK government. The irish involvement will be notional and presentational

[LCohen]

Amazing how enough though it's the IRA and SF that are covering themselves in shit that a lot of this thread is directed at a unionist politician.

Is the perspective so warped in the north that ye can't see how unsettling it is to see a supposedly gone terrorist organisation settling scores with impunity, and the PSNI almost terrified to admit they're still active because it may effect the political process?

Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.

Easy to say that from the comfort of having no experience of the alternative.

Everyone knows that there are uncomfortable things to have to 'put up' with on both sides but these are by far way better than the alternatives.

The longer the peace lasts the less need and relevance these elements will have and we can get to some kind of normality that 99.0% of the population would like.

So if we decide that we won't put up with UVF racketeering what will be the long term consequence?
If we decide to bust the fuel laundering and diluting in South Armagh will the money men throw their bombs out of the pram? Is that the sort of thing that masquerades as republicanism these days? Same with the drug dealers and the boys selling fake lottery tickets. Is the threat of republican violence just a means of keeping the police out of their criminal manors?

Bust them now.

That's the big brave internet warrior approach there.  You sound like a Fox News reporter talking about ISIS. Unfortunately in reality things have to be a little more nuanced.

So explain these real world nuances?

Do I really have to explain the likely political consequences of the PSNI going in gung-ho to 'bust' anyone involved in criminality in south Armagh? Really?

Please do. In detail

Sorry, I've better things to be doing so I'll decline your request. Tell you what, have a guess and I'll tell you if you're right or not.

No, no i set out my position. You said I didn't take account of the nuances. You know th nuances so spell them out. We have all the time in the world so time pressure is no excuse. Spell it out. Give us the detail.

You used the phrase "big brave internet warrior" so lets have no hiding

Speak for yourself!

You didn't set out your position.  You asked a few questions and then stated your entire plan which was 3 words long - 'bust them now'.  That's every bit as detailed as me saying 'it's not that easy'.

So you are arguing that we must tolerate criminality but refusing to to explain why? Mighty stuff. Glad you logged in.

[LCohen]

irish news in its editorial hits the nail on its head

"the huge pity is that many ordinary voters will no longer care either way"

Stormont has long since ceased to be relevant to most tax payers in the North

This is true.  Also there is a large swathe of Unionism in NI that quite simply does not want power sharing, does not want a shared future, does not want anything to do with the South, Irish language, GAA or anything that's too green.  They are not the majority of PULs but they are significant.

How big is this large swathe?

[An Watcher]

I would have to agree with the large swathe assessment. Bring it back to the old days when unionists were the top dogs.  Those days are gone never to return.  My only concern is how far away are we from the guns returning

[screenexile]

I would have to agree with the large swathe assessment. Bring it back to the old days when unionists were the top dogs.  Those days are gone never to return.  My only concern is how far away are we from the guns returning

I don't see it! Why would they? People talk about the struggle being for a United Ireland but in honesty I think it was about equality. Now that we are equal what real reason is there to take up arms again?

We don't have an entire section of the community downtrodden and waiting to fight back now people want to work hard and make an honest living as they are allowed to do now without much hindrance!

[Over the Bar]

Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.

Haven't heard that expression since Willie McCrea was about!

[armaghniac]

I would have to agree with the large swathe assessment. Bring it back to the old days when unionists were the top dogs.  Those days are gone never to return.  My only concern is how far away are we from the guns returning

I don't see it! Why would they? People talk about the struggle being for a United Ireland but in honesty I think it was about equality. Now that we are equal what real reason is there to take up arms again?

The struggle was about ending colonisation. A large measure of "equality" while still being a colony is definitely an improvement, but the notion that this is acceptable is an unionist one, not a nationalist one.

[Applesisapples]

Firstly I'd say SF are mightily pissed at the old comrades settling scores in this way. I'd have some sympathy for them in that regard. However some of their associations with known racketeers even at a lower level gives ammunition to Unionism. That said Unionists do not know the meaning of the word hypocrisy, they consort with all sorts of Loyalist paramilitaries, gang leaders and criminals in the interests of our fleg and culture. Nesbitt says Unionists don't trust SF as if trust is a one way street. I'd say nationalists and republicans have even less reason to trust PUL politicians given our experience from partition to now. PUL parties want equality but only on their terms, don't think about expressing Irish identity or ask for recognition of your symbols and flags. Just look at the NI run sporting bodies there is no on flag or anthem as opposed to the IRFU, GUI, Hockey and cricket. Unionists do not want to share power or this place. I note some of the simplistic posts from our southern brothers mainly aimed at SF (who are not blameless nor entirely to blame). The situation here is much more complicated and in the areas that McGuigan and Davidson come from little benefit from the peace process has filtered through. I would prefer that the two governments took control and run this place until a future generation that is not steeped in the sectarianism of the present can decide on an agreed way forward. I could go on and on but sure what's the point?

Plenty there I can agree with. SF are no doubt pissed that some of their associates still think that killing people is the way to do business. It will harm SF though not necessarily in the north.  The toleration of republicanism in criminality in some makes it difficult to criticise the same behaviour in others. Mike TV is being hypocritical in sharing a platform with some loyalists and his current attitude to SF

I think it is a nonsense to compare use of the flag/anthem by sports organised on an all island basis with whose organised within NI. Pure nonsense. Also some say by the Irish government is any imminent direct rule is not going to be on a pari passu basis with the UK government. The irish involvement will be notional and presentational

I use the flag thing as a comparison of the mind-sets.

[deiseach]

News reporter Tara Mills asking Mike Teevee the question on everyone's lips. Fair play till her..
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1u-1fQC7L-A

Crikey. When you consider how little we expect of politicians when it comes to dodging tricky questions, that was truly abject.

[Pub Bore]

irish news in its editorial hits the nail on its head

"the huge pity is that many ordinary voters will no longer care either way"

Stormont has long since ceased to be relevant to most tax payers in the North

This is true.  Also there is a large swathe of Unionism in NI that quite simply does not want power sharing, does not want a shared future, does not want anything to do with the South, Irish language, GAA or anything that's too green.  They are not the majority of PULs but they are significant.

How big is this large swathe?

How big is a swathe??  One of those questions that has baffled humanity for centuries.  Analysts reckon about 40%-42% of unionists voted against the Good Friday Agreement in the referendum in 1998.  I'd reckon the swathe is less than 50% but greater than 33%.

[Pub Bore]

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/former-loyalist-paramilitary-jailed-for-having-guns-and-ammunition-despite-plea-from-peter-robinson-to-show-leniency-31485435.html

A number of DUP politicians write to the judge pleading for leniency in the case of Loyalist on the run for 40 years.

[Main Street]

Firstly I'd say SF are mightily pissed at the old comrades settling scores in this way. I'd have some sympathy for them in that regard. However some of their associations with known racketeers even at a lower level gives ammunition to Unionism. That said Unionists do not know the meaning of the word hypocrisy, they consort with all sorts of Loyalist paramilitaries, gang leaders and criminals in the interests of our fleg and culture. Nesbitt says Unionists don't trust SF as if trust is a one way street. I'd say nationalists and republicans have even less reason to trust PUL politicians given our experience from partition to now. PUL parties want equality but only on their terms, don't think about expressing Irish identity or ask for recognition of your symbols and flags. Just look at the NI run sporting bodies there is no on flag or anthem as opposed to the IRFU, GUI, Hockey and cricket. Unionists do not want to share power or this place. I note some of the simplistic posts from our southern brothers mainly aimed at SF (who are not blameless nor entirely to blame). The situation here is much more complicated and in the areas that McGuigan and Davidson come from little benefit from the peace process has filtered through. I would prefer that the two governments took control and run this place until a future generation that is not steeped in the sectarianism of the present can decide on an agreed way forward. I could go on and on but sure what's the point?

Plenty there I can agree with. SF are no doubt pissed that some of their associates still think that killing people is the way to do business. It will harm SF though not necessarily in the north.  The toleration of republicanism in criminality in some makes it difficult to criticise the same behaviour in others. Mike TV is being hypocritical in sharing a platform with some loyalists and his current attitude to SF

I think it is a nonsense to compare use of the flag/anthem by sports organised on an all island basis with whose organised within NI. Pure nonsense. Also some say by the Irish government is any imminent direct rule is not going to be on a pari passu basis with the UK government. The irish involvement will be notional and presentational

Why do you think it will harm SF in the south?  The evidence over the past decades is that SF's profile keeps rising despite predictions about damage due to this or that controversy,whether it be real, exaggerated or contrived. And I surmise the more transparantly bogus and coordinated the attack, the more the rebound is for Sinn Fein. Every time McDowell and  Martin (each according to their own agenda) opens their mouth, the Sinn Fein popularity meter registers another mark. There is a level of gullibility and fear amongst the voters which is easily manipulated by promises, lots of them, but when it comes to stuff like this, the public (in the middle) generally see it for what it is.

"The toleration of republicanism in criminality in some makes it difficult to criticise the same behaviour in others."

What relevance has such a statement to Sinn Fein the political party? Is there evidence that members of Sinn Fein are involved in/tolerate criminal ventures or do the words of the Chief constable have merit
I presume here the chief constable is referring to Prov IRA the almost  empty shell, the organisation that signed a peace treaty all those years ago.
"there is no evidence at this stage that the killing was sanctioned by the organisation"

"the police assessment, he said, is that the Provisional IRA remains committed to politics and is not engaged in terrorism.
"They are not on a war footing, they are not involved in paramilitary activity in the sense that they were during the period of the conflict," he said.
on Sinn Fein "Sinn Féin is committed to the peace process"

[armaghniac]

irish news in its editorial hits the nail on its head

"the huge pity is that many ordinary voters will no longer care either way"

Stormont has long since ceased to be relevant to most tax payers in the North

This is true.  Also there is a large swathe of Unionism in NI that quite simply does not want power sharing, does not want a shared future, does not want anything to do with the South, Irish language, GAA or anything that's too green.  They are not the majority of PULs but they are significant.

How big is this large swathe?

How big is a swathe??  One of those questions that has baffled humanity for centuries.  Analysts reckon about 40%-42% of unionists voted against the Good Friday Agreement in the referendum in 1998.  I'd reckon the swathe is less than 50% but greater than 33%.

Since the purpose of unionism is to keep the Plantation of Ulster going, it intrinsically favours inequality.Some are more realistic than others though and realise that the best way to keep the whole thing going is to moderate things. In the context of present events, I think people 25 years ago would have regarded the present "impasse" as something of storm in a teacup.

[Hereiam]

U get the feelin that Nesbitt just wants his name in the history books the attention seekin w**ker

[Orior]

U get the feelin that Nesbitt just wants his name in the history books the attention seekin w**ker

Think about what you are saying. Politicians are meant to represent and lead their electorate.