The Masonic Lodge and The Knights are they linked?

[imtommygunn]

What about the Royal Ancient Order of Buffalo.

I notice that there's one of Donegall street belfast - I assume they're the same principle?

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

What about the Royal Ancient Order of Buffalo.

I notice that there's one of Donegall street belfast - I assume they're the same principle?

Its just off Writers Sq, facing St Annes Cathedral, there's another one on the Albertbridge Rd.

http://www.raob.org/

Fcuk me their in the south as well!! 

[ardmhachaabu]

Ther are plenty of catholics who are masons including priests

I very much doubt that.

The Orange Order is part of freemasonry.

[Pangurban]

 I cannot understand why the catholic church condemns the Masons, yet has no problem with the Knights of Columbanus, who are basically a secretive organisation with no open membership. Is it just a case of our secretive socities good others bad

[ardmhachaabu]

Dunno the answer to that Pangurban.  Will ask a few people and let you know...

[Roger]

You have again twisted what I have said and used if for your own agenda.

I have no time for any such group, Masons, Knights of any religious persuasion, OO etc.  if people feel the need to join a secret society IN MY OPINION they are sad people. 

Whether you like it or not the Masons are viewed as inherently sectarian in Ireland (a fact acknowledged by their leader FFS, twist it how you like but that is what he said) and overhwelmingly Unionist in their composition. Hence my paralells with that idiot watson.

if you know nothing about any strand of knights maybe do some research then as there is no point us discussing something you claim to know anything about (I am no expert either) but that is no surprise as we can hardly claim to be epxerts on groups that are essentially secretive in make up. What I do know is that there is a lot of bigoted idiotic people out there who detest all things Irish and are determined to trample over anything remotely Irish in make up and quick to argue against those who are Irish.  Kind of what you seem to be doing. 

I twisted nothing.  Read your quote again.  The Masons are not sectarian as far as I can see but you have stated they are and are "exactly the kind of 'institutions' (apt) that perpetuate the hatred and sectarianism against all things Nationalist in the 6 counties still".  All I have done is ask why you said that and your answer came from going off to google the Masons and taking some Masons view that Freemasonry have only themselves to blame if people think that about them.  He didn't say they were sectarian or hate-filled he was simply saying that the PR disaster on RTE was basically down to their inability to get their point across effectively.  As for the Knights, I have stated I know nothing about them and have asked you for information given that you claim the are "exactly" the kind of organisation that perpetuates "the hatred and sectarianism against all things Nationalist in the 6 counties still".

[Doogie Browser]

You have again twisted what I have said and used if for your own agenda.

I have no time for any such group, Masons, Knights of any religious persuasion, OO etc.  if people feel the need to join a secret society IN MY OPINION they are sad people. 

Whether you like it or not the Masons are viewed as inherently sectarian in Ireland (a fact acknowledged by their leader FFS, twist it how you like but that is what he said) and overhwelmingly Unionist in their composition. Hence my paralells with that idiot watson.

if you know nothing about any strand of knights maybe do some research then as there is no point us discussing something you claim to know anything about (I am no expert either) but that is no surprise as we can hardly claim to be epxerts on groups that are essentially secretive in make up. What I do know is that there is a lot of bigoted idiotic people out there who detest all things Irish and are determined to trample over anything remotely Irish in make up and quick to argue against those who are Irish.  Kind of what you seem to be doing. 

I twisted nothing.  Read your quote again.  The Masons are not sectarian as far as I can see but you have stated they are and are "exactly the kind of 'institutions' (apt) that perpetuate the hatred and sectarianism against all things Nationalist in the 6 counties still".  All I have done is ask why you said that and your answer came from going off to google the Masons and taking some Masons view that Freemasonry have only themselves to blame if people think that about them.  He didn't say they were sectarian or hate-filled he was simply saying that the PR disaster on RTE was basically down to their inability to get their point across effectively.  As for the Knights, I have stated I know nothing about them and have asked you for information given that you claim the are "exactly" the kind of organisation that perpetuates "the hatred and sectarianism against all things Nationalist in the 6 counties still".

Are you serious 'some masons view'?  he was the head of masonry in Ireland FFS  .  Pick out the parts that suit you sure.  No point in debating this when you plainly twist everything for your own agenda.

[AbbeySider]

The Masonic Lodge and The Knights are they linked?
As time has passed these two opposites seem to have merged any comments ?

To answer your question the Masons and Knights of Columbanus would not have any direct links. The knights of Columbanus would be exclusively be a conservative right wing catholic movement that depends on their want-to-be aristocrat type power and persuasions in the public. The Knights are actually recognised by the vatican and their members would include prominent doctors, politicians and priests. All of whom would command a certain respect in their community. The Knights job, in layman's terms is to conserve and protect the catholic church in subtle ways. They would use their influences to dampen criticisms and any conflicts against the church. I have a few stories in this regard but they are not for this board.

The Masonic Lodge or Freemasonry is much different. There cannot be crossover members as you swear an oth that you are not a member of another secret organisation. Masons have all the Holy Books open during their meetings. The Koran, Old Testament, New Testament etc are all opened at the start of the ceremony/meeting. This is to symbolise that Masonry dont have any particular faith and that all are welcome. Thats what would separate them from the Knights who are strictly catholic. The Masons would be more made up of prominent business men, politicians and the wealthy. It is an organisation that claims to have secrets passed on since the times of the renaissance. They say that politicians from Abraham Lincoln  to Bill Clinton were members. They also claim their members would include the great scientists of the past such as Galileo and Newton. Essentially there would be a trust there and probably a lot of back scratching and deals made between the politicians and businessmen involved. They have secret handshakes and things like that. What would worry me about the masons is that they are into their pagan symbols which would spell out that they are not exactly of any faith. Their symbolism would include compasses, bricks and mallets which is a nod to where they came from and what they stand for.

But there may be some cooperation between the two but for the most part they wouldnt be linked IMO.

[Roger]

You have again twisted what I have said and used if for your own agenda.

I have no time for any such group, Masons, Knights of any religious persuasion, OO etc.  if people feel the need to join a secret society IN MY OPINION they are sad people. 

Whether you like it or not the Masons are viewed as inherently sectarian in Ireland (a fact acknowledged by their leader FFS, twist it how you like but that is what he said) and overhwelmingly Unionist in their composition. Hence my paralells with that idiot watson.

if you know nothing about any strand of knights maybe do some research then as there is no point us discussing something you claim to know anything about (I am no expert either) but that is no surprise as we can hardly claim to be epxerts on groups that are essentially secretive in make up. What I do know is that there is a lot of bigoted idiotic people out there who detest all things Irish and are determined to trample over anything remotely Irish in make up and quick to argue against those who are Irish.  Kind of what you seem to be doing. 

I twisted nothing.  Read your quote again.  The Masons are not sectarian as far as I can see but you have stated they are and are "exactly the kind of 'institutions' (apt) that perpetuate the hatred and sectarianism against all things Nationalist in the 6 counties still".  All I have done is ask why you said that and your answer came from going off to google the Masons and taking some Masons view that Freemasonry have only themselves to blame if people think that about them.  He didn't say they were sectarian or hate-filled he was simply saying that the PR disaster on RTE was basically down to their inability to get their point across effectively.  As for the Knights, I have stated I know nothing about them and have asked you for information given that you claim the are "exactly" the kind of organisation that perpetuates "the hatred and sectarianism against all things Nationalist in the 6 counties still".

Are you serious 'some masons view'?  he was the head of masonry in Ireland FFS  .  Pick out the parts that suit you sure.  No point in debating this when you plainly twist everything for your own agenda.

It doesn't matter if it was the chief wizard of world masonry, you need to read what he said. 

Now how exactly is Masonry and the Knights perpetrating hatred and sectarianism against nationalists "in the 6 counties"? 

Replying that the head Mason in Ireland says the PR isn't good and they have themselves to blame for that isn't an answer for your mindless accusation against the MAsons and you have never said a thing about the Knights.

[AbbeySider]

Read my post above.

Some quotes:

The knights of Columbanus would be exclusively be a conservative right wing catholic movement ...are actually recognised by the vatican and their members would include prominent doctors, politicians and priests. All of whom would command a certain respect in their community.
....
Masons have all the Holy Books open during their meetings. The Koran, Old Testament, New Testament etc are all opened at the start of the ceremony/meeting. This is to symbolise that Masonry dont have any particular faith and that all are welcome. Thats what would separate them from the Knights who are strictly catholic
....

[Roger]

I cannot understand why the catholic church condemns the Masons, yet has no problem with the Knights of Columbanus, who are basically a secretive organisation with no open membership. Is it just a case of our secretive socities good others bad

I think historically it had something to do with control of the Masons and also that in the Masons the Pope / priests could actually be subservient to another member of any religion which they wouldn't be into. Therefore that church banned its members from joining the Masons with threat of excommunication I think.  Freemasonry doesn't ban any religion and it hasn't deterred many who have joined anyway. My understanding is that one of the qualifications to join the Masons is that you must believe in a god but no particular one.  Everyone refers to their own god in Masonic ritual but the substitute the term god with "Great Architect" which is masonry speak for whoever who want him to be.

If Abbeysiders view is correct then the Knights are an RC organisation under control of the church.

[Roger]

Read my post above.

Some quotes:

The knights of Columbanus would be exclusively be a conservative right wing catholic movement ...are actually recognised by the vatican and their members would include prominent doctors, politicians and priests. All of whom would command a certain respect in their community.
....
Masons have all the Holy Books open during their meetings. The Koran, Old Testament, New Testament etc are all opened at the start of the ceremony/meeting. This is to symbolise that Masonry dont have any particular faith and that all are welcome. Thats what would separate them from the Knights who are strictly catholic
....

I did read it and thought it an excellent post.

Still can't see how the perpetrate hatred and sectarianism towards nationalists, mind 

[Doogie Browser]

What he said and I have read it many times - "It is almost entirely our own fault that the public see us as sinister, secretive, sectarian and self-interested."  Not much ambiguity about that really.     

I have already explained a few posts back that if anyone feels the need to join a secretive cult, group, organisation or order then IN MY OPINION it is plain wrong, regardless of religious make-up, persuasion etc and leaves them open to accusations of sectarianism, bigotry, hatred, characteristics shared by some of the good people of Antrim offended by 9 and 10 year old children.   The masons and I suppose Knights of any grouping until they allow a more open book policy will be viewed as sectarian, a fact readily acknowledged by the chief wizard of masonry or whatever minor role he has within masonry, knights in the same vein have to accept the same criticism.  So these are exactly the KIND of institutions (apt) that we can do without and perpetuate suspicion and sectarianism over here.

You claim to know little or indeed anything about Knights also, but I do feel you are being disengenuous here  , so I would find it hard to trust anything you say. 

[Roger]

You claim to know little or indeed anything about Knights also, but I do feel you are being disengenuous here  , so I would find it hard to trust anything you say. 

I didn't know anything about the Knights until Abbeysider's post.  You said they were "exactly" the sort of instituation that perpetrate hatred and sectarianism towards nationalism. I only asked why?  Your out of context google findings is a silly justification of your accusation on Masonry and I still can't see anything from you about the Knights or Masonry except you don't like secret societies of all kinds.  How's that against nationalism?

[Roger]

Ther are plenty of catholics who are masons including priests

I very much doubt that.

The Orange Order is part of freemasonry.

Do you mean there are some within the OO are part of freemasonry as members or officially? As far as I am aware I don't think there is any link between OO and Masons except that there are OO members who are in the Masons but then there are also Catholics, Jews, nationalists, and even GAA members who are in the Masons.