LSFC - Longford v Dublin 31 May 2015 in Croke Park

[Esmarelda]

Is there a groundswell of support from 'weaker' counties for them to go away and play in a separate competition? (I realise that's not what you are suggesting, but others proposing an n-tier architecture are doing so).

Off the top of my head the Waterford manager has called for it, Leitrim county secretary has called for Leitirm to play junior. The Limerick manager has called for it as well.

If it was a case of the big counties calling for it I'd be fearful that they simply wanted shot of the minnows, but when you see those in the weaker counties coming out and saying they are in favour of it I think that it's a conversation the GAA needs to have.

Would be an interesting story for a GAA journalist to follow up on. Quick call to the various Division 4 managers and ask them for their opinion on it and how their players would feel. They are the lads doing the thankless jobs and their opinion is surely "worth" more than that of folk from the big guns.

Will the GPA not cover this?

No money in it so the GPA won't give a flying fig

If the players are asked then surely they'll give their opinion

http://www.hoganstand.com/Football/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=238494

[Teo Lurley]

Nonsense, giving Leitrim or Longford millions wouldn't make them competitive enough to beat Dublin or Kerry most years. You boys want to solve a minor problem while ignoring the real one. There shouldn't be any cap on what Dublin can generate for themselves as A. It's not enforceable and B. Why limit counties maximising their ability? - 'Lads, ye wouldn't mind getting less good would ye??

Redistribute GAA money by all means but don't think that's going to solve much, especially without counties having a clear plan on how to use the money.

Or how about giving everyone a fair chance? Radical thinking I know.

Like letting Longford use Donegal's helicopter or turn the Donegal & Kerry bagmen upside down at Dublin airport and divvy up the dollars they've collected at another foreign fund raiser?

Yes, time to sort out those who are receiving vast amounts of money to give themselves a huge advantage over those who cannot raise as much. Kerry need to be sorted out, Donegal needs to be sorted out and especially Dublin needs to be sorted out.

[twohands!!!]

Quite an interesting statistic here that isn't in keeping with the media narrative:

https://twitter.com/gaelicstats/status/606115790430040065/photo/1

It doesn't take into account the changing nature of the game in terms of stuff like changes to fitness, preparation, tactics, rule changes so
How would those stats look if it were an 8 point winning margin, a 12 point winning margin, a 15 point winning margin, a 20 point winning margin, a 25 point winning margin.

There's also the fact that before the qualifiers a team could be rubbish but these rubbish teams once they were beaten were gone from the championship.

In the qualifier era every rubbish team is guaranteed two games and depending on how the draw goes might actually beat 1 or 2 other rubbish sides before getting knocked out.

[Teo Lurley]

No it wouldn't and the only money the GAA can redistribute is their own but before you'd do even that you'd have to identify where you'd get a return. No point in wasting money either. By the way nobody is proposing a losers group so lets stick to facts.

There should be rules on sponsorship and where you can get money from. The GAA needs to distribute the money it has in a more fair manner. Improving the standard of football in every county is not wasting money. Some people seem to want an elite league while the rest just get out of their way.

Why should a county have to redistribute their sponsorship. AIG want to sponsor Dublin not Carlow. It's up to the GAA to look after Carlow not Dublin.
People have no idea how backward the structures in these counties are due to the county boards that exist there. Dublin as usual get the blame for everything. You could give millions to these county boards and the problem will still exist.

Why are the GAA giving Dublin far more money than anyone else seen as they get so much in sponsorship?

[Teo Lurley]

Nonsense, giving Leitrim or Longford millions wouldn't make them competitive enough to beat Dublin or Kerry most years. You boys want to solve a minor problem while ignoring the real one. There shouldn't be any cap on what Dublin can generate for themselves as A. It's not enforceable and B. Why limit counties maximising their ability? - 'Lads, ye wouldn't mind getting less good would ye??

Redistribute GAA money by all means but don't think that's going to solve much, especially without counties having a clear plan on how to use the money.

Or how about giving everyone a fair chance? Radical thinking I know.

I hope there's more support amongst GAA fans to see the game survive in all counties rather than just having an elite league with those who can raise sponsorship money while the rest play eachother in the losers league. In fact I know there's more support for that, the day that changes is the day we may forget about it all.

If you want to give counties a fair chance then make them of broadly equal size but giving a county of Leitrim's population millions won't make them more competitive. And stop spouting rubbish about a losers league, nobody is advocating that. Perhaps if your only contribution is to give out about big teams generating big money then go to the thread specifically about that, there's quite a few if memory serves.

By the way, increasing the number of games between the best teams will generate more sponsorship and TV money for our leagues and championships which would, in turn, increase the money smaller counties get from the GAA.

The big teams with all the money will help create more wealth for........................themselves. It will trickle down though, so you in the losers league can get some crumbs too.

[Zulu]

How many kids are dreaming of winning the Tier 4 All Ireland Get out of Everyone Else's way championship?

I don't think that's a big issue either way. If that was the case then GAA, or at least one code, would be utterly dead in many counties long ago. If the only soccer we got to see here was LOI then there would be a lot less interest in the game. However, we get to see and get excited about foreign teams and a sport played internationally. I don't see why more big games between the big teams with increased exposure and hype would harm the game in Longford or anywhere else. It would help glamourise the game in a kids mind which in turn would help recruit or keep more kids for longer.

[twohands!!!]

I find that surprising, because when the Tommy Murphy Cup was there, and restricted to Division 4 counties, it was treated like a purgatory.

That's probably because of the fact that the Tommy Murphy wasnt a proper 2nd tier competition combined with the scheduling of it - it was pretty much a shield competition.

I also think that back then there was an idea in the weaker counties that the qualifiers would magically lead to the weaker counties getting better, instead of the case where the qualifiers have benefited from those who have put the work in. Now there is a much greatly acceptance that there is no magic bullet quick fix to improving the weaker counties.
Ask those in the weaker counties what getting hammerings from the big counties does on the coal-face in terms of trying to promote football in those counties and trying to get players to commit or sponsors to come on board.
How many kids in Longford were dreaming of playing in Croke Park this week?

How many kids are dreaming of winning the Tier 4 All Ireland Get out of Everyone Else's way championship?

Well when the loudest calls are coming from those teams who would be competing in it, it's hardly the get out of everyone else's way championship is it?

Currently you have the bottom tier who are competing for no silverware.
I'm saying give them something to compete in.
Or should we get rid of all intermediate, junior, novice competitions?

[Zulu]

Nonsense, giving Leitrim or Longford millions wouldn't make them competitive enough to beat Dublin or Kerry most years. You boys want to solve a minor problem while ignoring the real one. There shouldn't be any cap on what Dublin can generate for themselves as A. It's not enforceable and B. Why limit counties maximising their ability? - 'Lads, ye wouldn't mind getting less good would ye??

Redistribute GAA money by all means but don't think that's going to solve much, especially without counties having a clear plan on how to use the money.

Or how about giving everyone a fair chance? Radical thinking I know.

I hope there's more support amongst GAA fans to see the game survive in all counties rather than just having an elite league with those who can raise sponsorship money while the rest play eachother in the losers league. In fact I know there's more support for that, the day that changes is the day we may forget about it all.

If you want to give counties a fair chance then make them of broadly equal size but giving a county of Leitrim's population millions won't make them more competitive. And stop spouting rubbish about a losers league, nobody is advocating that. Perhaps if your only contribution is to give out about big teams generating big money then go to the thread specifically about that, there's quite a few if memory serves.

By the way, increasing the number of games between the best teams will generate more sponsorship and TV money for our leagues and championships which would, in turn, increase the money smaller counties get from the GAA.

The big teams with all the money will help create more wealth for........................themselves. It will trickle down though, so you in the losers league can get some crumbs too.

Eh? TV rights and sponsorship money for the leagues and championships is GAA money and can be distributed as they see fit. Now the big counties may be able to increase their own sponsorship value through greater exposure but so too could other counties.

[twohands!!!]

How many kids are dreaming of winning the Tier 4 All Ireland Get out of Everyone Else's way championship?

I don't think that's a big issue either way. If that was the case then GAA, or at least one code, would be utterly dead in many counties long ago. If the only soccer we got to see here was LOI then there would be a lot less interest in the game. However, we get to see and get excited about foreign teams and a sport played internationally. I don't see why more big games between the big teams with increased exposure and hype would harm the game in Longford or anywhere else. It would help glamourise the game in a kids mind which in turn would help recruit or keep more kids for longer.

The Christy Ring,Nicky Rackard and Lory Meagher Cups are on Saturday

They might not be the perfect example of how to deal with the weaker counties in a sport but they are a damm sight a better option than what is happening with the weaker counties in football.

[INDIANA]

I find that surprising, because when the Tommy Murphy Cup was there, and restricted to Division 4 counties, it was treated like a purgatory.

That's probably because of the fact that the Tommy Murphy wasnt a proper 2nd tier competition combined with the scheduling of it - it was pretty much a shield competition.

I also think that back then there was an idea in the weaker counties that the qualifiers would magically lead to the weaker counties getting better, instead of the case where the qualifiers have benefited from those who have put the work in. Now there is a much greatly acceptance that there is no magic bullet quick fix to improving the weaker counties.
Ask those in the weaker counties what getting hammerings from the big counties does on the coal-face in terms of trying to promote football in those counties and trying to get players to commit or sponsors to come on board.
How many kids in Longford were dreaming of playing in Croke Park this week?

How many kids are dreaming of winning the Tier 4 All Ireland Get out of Everyone Else's way championship?

We were hammering teams in the 70's in the Leinster Championship. Nothing has ever changed in these counties. Laois hurling people wrote up a plan - went to Croke Park and got the funding for it and we can all see the benefits.

Has Offaly, Louth, Carlow or Longford ever done the same?

I'd suspect  no. If counties don't want to end up in what they consider to be mickey mouse competitions then they have to put the work in.

Croke Park are very amenable at investing in counties when you put a coherent plan in front of them. But they aren't going to do it for them.

[Teo Lurley]

Nonsense, giving Leitrim or Longford millions wouldn't make them competitive enough to beat Dublin or Kerry most years. You boys want to solve a minor problem while ignoring the real one. There shouldn't be any cap on what Dublin can generate for themselves as A. It's not enforceable and B. Why limit counties maximising their ability? - 'Lads, ye wouldn't mind getting less good would ye??

Redistribute GAA money by all means but don't think that's going to solve much, especially without counties having a clear plan on how to use the money.

Or how about giving everyone a fair chance? Radical thinking I know.

I hope there's more support amongst GAA fans to see the game survive in all counties rather than just having an elite league with those who can raise sponsorship money while the rest play eachother in the losers league. In fact I know there's more support for that, the day that changes is the day we may forget about it all.

If you want to give counties a fair chance then make them of broadly equal size but giving a county of Leitrim's population millions won't make them more competitive. And stop spouting rubbish about a losers league, nobody is advocating that. Perhaps if your only contribution is to give out about big teams generating big money then go to the thread specifically about that, there's quite a few if memory serves.

By the way, increasing the number of games between the best teams will generate more sponsorship and TV money for our leagues and championships which would, in turn, increase the money smaller counties get from the GAA.

The big teams with all the money will help create more wealth for........................themselves. It will trickle down though, so you in the losers league can get some crumbs too.

Eh? TV rights and sponsorship money for the leagues and championships is GAA money and can be distributed as they see fit. Now the big counties may be able to increase their own sponsorship value through greater exposure but so too could other counties.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It will become an elite sport where the game will crumble in many counties if we go down this route. We need to sort out the financial issues and fast.

[Syferus]

No it wouldn't and the only money the GAA can redistribute is their own but before you'd do even that you'd have to identify where you'd get a return. No point in wasting money either. By the way nobody is proposing a losers group so lets stick to facts.

There should be rules on sponsorship and where you can get money from. The GAA needs to distribute the money it has in a more fair manner. Improving the standard of football in every county is not wasting money. Some people seem to want an elite league while the rest just get out of their way.

Why should a county have to redistribute their sponsorship. AIG want to sponsor Dublin not Carlow. It's up to the GAA to look after Carlow not Dublin.
People have no idea how backward the structures in these counties are due to the county boards that exist there. Dublin as usual get the blame for everything. You could give millions to these county boards and the problem will still exist.

It's called parity. Many American sports practice it so as to create as level a playing field as possible. Doesn't mean some teams don't end up losing a lot still but it means they all have much more hope of being competive than even middle ranking teams in other sports do. The EPL would be an example of a league / sport where there is very little parity even if they share TV money. Thst alone won't bring parity into Gaelic football either.

I see no reason why money given to Dublin shouldn't be redistributed to other more needy areas of the country once the cuts fairly reflect the playing numbers and unique costs in each county. There's not really a good case to be made for excess particular when it's at the expense of the entire sport's health.

There should be hard caps on IC spending too and the rules enforced with proper oversight and not the behind the bike shed donations and deals we see these days. I think that would help everyone, the teams that can't afford massive budgets and the bigger counties who now resemble junkies recklessly chasing the next high, be it trips to Miami or Portugal or a fat cheque to a sports psychologist.

[Zulu]

So what you're saying is if wealthy Roscommon men who've made it rich abroad wanted to give Roscommon GAA €2 million a year for 5 years, Roscommon would have to give Waterford and Limerick a cut, who might spend it on their hurling teams?

[AZOffaly]

I find that surprising, because when the Tommy Murphy Cup was there, and restricted to Division 4 counties, it was treated like a purgatory.

That's probably because of the fact that the Tommy Murphy wasnt a proper 2nd tier competition combined with the scheduling of it - it was pretty much a shield competition.

I also think that back then there was an idea in the weaker counties that the qualifiers would magically lead to the weaker counties getting better, instead of the case where the qualifiers have benefited from those who have put the work in. Now there is a much greatly acceptance that there is no magic bullet quick fix to improving the weaker counties.
Ask those in the weaker counties what getting hammerings from the big counties does on the coal-face in terms of trying to promote football in those counties and trying to get players to commit or sponsors to come on board.
How many kids in Longford were dreaming of playing in Croke Park this week?

How many kids are dreaming of winning the Tier 4 All Ireland Get out of Everyone Else's way championship?

We were hammering teams in the 70's in the Leinster Championship. Nothing has ever changed in these counties. Laois hurling people wrote up a plan - went to Croke Park and got the funding for it and we can all see the benefits.

Has Offaly, Louth, Carlow or Longford ever done the same?

I'd suspect  no. If counties don't want to end up in what they consider to be mickey mouse competitions then they have to put the work in.

Croke Park are very amenable at investing in counties when you put a coherent plan in front of them. But they aren't going to do it for them.

I agree. I said as much earlier on.

[Syferus]

So what you're saying is if wealthy Roscommon men who've made it rich abroad wanted to give Roscommon GAA €2 million a year for 5 years, Roscommon would have to give Waterford and Limerick a cut, who might spend it on their hurling teams?

As long as everyone gets a fair cut I would not mind one bit if that were to happen. In the end it's the GAA everywhere that wins if everyone rows in the same direction.

It's much more realistic that a cap can imposed on IC spending rather than donations being redistributed though. A percentage of each donation being redistributed likewise is something that should be within reach.