LSFC - Longford v Dublin 31 May 2015 in Croke Park

[AZOffaly]

Like it or not, the championship is what floats our boat in Ireland. Knockout drama. In fact I would argue that in places like the US, they only play the 'league' portion as a money generator, and people only get genuinely excited in the playoffs, which is basically our Championship format. The even have Conference Championships, analogous to our provinces.

Soccer doesn't go down this route, because a professional sport needs games to generate income. Therefore the league is the driver of the season. However, the biggest, most sought after tournament in club football is the Champions League, which despite the misnomer, is actually a knockout cup competition.

I'm all for allowing the league to determine positions in a seeded championship, but not to replace it. I want teams meeting in knockout games that mean something. To be honest, I think part of the provincial championship 'issues' are the poxy qualifiers anyway. It's not last chance saloon anymore. And the piss poor teams just get tanked again in the Qualifiers. The Qualifiers are only really beneficial to the strong teams who get caught on the hop. They are actually hurtful to a middle of the road team reaching an All Ireland.

[Sidney]

The Qualifiers are only really beneficial to the strong teams who get caught on the hop. They are actually hurtful to a middle of the road team reaching an All Ireland.

They've been of benefit to plenty of "middle of the road" counties. Derry, Down, Kildare, Fermanagh, Sligo, Wexford etc. And Longford.

[AZOffaly]

Not for reaching an All Ireland. Because eventually chances are you'll run into one of the big guns knocked out earlier on. At least in the old days if Cork caught Kerry in Munster, they were gone. Now they resurface like the Krakken.

[Zulu]

Nonsense, giving Leitrim or Longford millions wouldn't make them competitive enough to beat Dublin or Kerry most years. You boys want to solve a minor problem while ignoring the real one. There shouldn't be any cap on what Dublin can generate for themselves as A. It's not enforceable and B. Why limit counties maximising their ability? - 'Lads, ye wouldn't mind getting less good would ye??

Redistribute GAA money by all means but don't think that's going to solve much, especially without counties having a clear plan on how to use the money.

Or how about giving everyone a fair chance? Radical thinking I know.

I hope there's more support amongst GAA fans to see the game survive in all counties rather than just having an elite league with those who can raise sponsorship money while the rest play eachother in the losers league. In fact I know there's more support for that, the day that changes is the day we may forget about it all.

If you want to give counties a fair chance then make them of broadly equal size but giving a county of Leitrim's population millions won't make them more competitive. And stop spouting rubbish about a losers league, nobody is advocating that. Perhaps if your only contribution is to give out about big teams generating big money then go to the thread specifically about that, there's quite a few if memory serves.

By the way, increasing the number of games between the best teams will generate more sponsorship and TV money for our leagues and championships which would, in turn, increase the money smaller counties get from the GAA.

Maybe if we give them enough money they'll just go away and stop annoying us.

They're not annoying anyway. However, I'd like to give them more than a few backwater league games and one or two championship games against (usually) better teams. Are you suggesting players from weaker counties are happy with their lot?

[AZOffaly]

Is there a groundswell of support from 'weaker' counties for them to go away and play in a separate competition? (I realise that's not what you are suggesting, but others proposing an n-tier architecture are doing so).

[Sidney]

Not for reaching an All Ireland. Because eventually chances are you'll run into one of the big guns knocked out earlier on. At least in the old days if Cork caught Kerry in Munster, they were gone. Now they resurface like the Krakken.

Down reached one. Benefit is relative. It's highly unlikely Fermanagh, Wexford and Sligo would have had the runs they had through the old system. Going through the back door and playing new opponents enabled them to break free of their traditional provincial losing habits.

[Zulu]

I don't know and to be fair I'm sure getting consensus would be as easy at it is here  . On newstalk Marty Clark called for the provincials top be scrapped and an AFL type format but Shane Walsh and James Horan wanted to keep the provincial championships in some format anyway. There's no magic solution that will equally cater for a juggernaut like Dublin, an improving side like Tipp and a struggling side like Waterford so we shouldn't try to tick every box but we should try to give everyone good quality games and a pathway to improve. That involves funding as well as competition structure but I wouldn't give Waterford, for example, a penny more at the moment as it wouldn't help football one iota. Giving them something to aim for might help motivation though.

[twohands!!!]

Is there a groundswell of support from 'weaker' counties for them to go away and play in a separate competition? (I realise that's not what you are suggesting, but others proposing an n-tier architecture are doing so).

Off the top of my head the Waterford manager has called for it, Leitrim county secretary has called for Leitirm to play junior. The Limerick manager has called for it as well.

If it was a case of the big counties calling for it I'd be fearful that they simply wanted shot of the minnows, but when you see those in the weaker counties coming out and saying they are in favour of it I think that it's a conversation the GAA needs to have.

Would be an interesting story for a GAA journalist to follow up on. Quick call to the various Division 4 managers and ask them for their opinion on it and how their players would feel. They are the lads doing the thankless jobs and their opinion is surely "worth" more than that of folk from the big guns.

[Sidney]

Quite an interesting statistic here that isn't in keeping with the media narrative:

https://twitter.com/gaelicstats/status/606115790430040065/photo/1

[AZOffaly]

Is there a groundswell of support from 'weaker' counties for them to go away and play in a separate competition? (I realise that's not what you are suggesting, but others proposing an n-tier architecture are doing so).

Off the top of my head the Waterford manager has called for it, Leitrim county secretary has called for Leitirm to play junior. The Limerick manager has called for it as well.

If it was a case of the big counties calling for it I'd be fearful that they simply wanted shot of the minnows, but when you see those in the weaker counties coming out and saying they are in favour of it I think that it's a conversation the GAA needs to have.

Would be an interesting story for a GAA journalist to follow up on. Quick call to the various Division 4 managers and ask them for their opinion on it and how their players would feel. They are the lads doing the thankless jobs and their opinion is surely "worth" more than that of folk from the big guns.

I find that surprising, because when the Tommy Murphy Cup was there, and restricted to Division 4 counties, it was treated like a purgatory. And Waterford have just been thumped by a Division 3 team.

[AZOffaly]

Quite an interesting statistic here that isn't in keeping with media narrative:

https://twitter.com/gaelicstats/status/606115790430040065/photo/1

That's what I was saying earlier on. In fairness to Zulu, he's saying it's always been broken. But you're right, to listen to the media you'd think this was a recent phenomenon.

[Esmarelda]

Is there a groundswell of support from 'weaker' counties for them to go away and play in a separate competition? (I realise that's not what you are suggesting, but others proposing an n-tier architecture are doing so).

Off the top of my head the Waterford manager has called for it, Leitrim county secretary has called for Leitirm to play junior. The Limerick manager has called for it as well.

If it was a case of the big counties calling for it I'd be fearful that they simply wanted shot of the minnows, but when you see those in the weaker counties coming out and saying they are in favour of it I think that it's a conversation the GAA needs to have.

Would be an interesting story for a GAA journalist to follow up on. Quick call to the various Division 4 managers and ask them for their opinion on it and how their players would feel. They are the lads doing the thankless jobs and their opinion is surely "worth" more than that of folk from the big guns.

Will the GPA not cover this?

[twohands!!!]

I find that surprising, because when the Tommy Murphy Cup was there, and restricted to Division 4 counties, it was treated like a purgatory.

That's probably because of the fact that the Tommy Murphy wasnt a proper 2nd tier competition combined with the scheduling of it - it was pretty much a shield competition.

I also think that back then there was an idea in the weaker counties that the qualifiers would magically lead to the weaker counties getting better, instead of the case where the qualifiers have benefited from those who have put the work in. Now there is a much greatly acceptance that there is no magic bullet quick fix to improving the weaker counties.
Ask those in the weaker counties what getting hammerings from the big counties does on the coal-face in terms of trying to promote football in those counties and trying to get players to commit or sponsors to come on board.
How many kids in Longford were dreaming of playing in Croke Park this week?

[twohands!!!]

Is there a groundswell of support from 'weaker' counties for them to go away and play in a separate competition? (I realise that's not what you are suggesting, but others proposing an n-tier architecture are doing so).

Off the top of my head the Waterford manager has called for it, Leitrim county secretary has called for Leitirm to play junior. The Limerick manager has called for it as well.

If it was a case of the big counties calling for it I'd be fearful that they simply wanted shot of the minnows, but when you see those in the weaker counties coming out and saying they are in favour of it I think that it's a conversation the GAA needs to have.

Would be an interesting story for a GAA journalist to follow up on. Quick call to the various Division 4 managers and ask them for their opinion on it and how their players would feel. They are the lads doing the thankless jobs and their opinion is surely "worth" more than that of folk from the big guns.

Will the GPA not cover this?

No money in it so the GPA won't give a flying fig

[AZOffaly]

I find that surprising, because when the Tommy Murphy Cup was there, and restricted to Division 4 counties, it was treated like a purgatory.

That's probably because of the fact that the Tommy Murphy wasnt a proper 2nd tier competition combined with the scheduling of it - it was pretty much a shield competition.

I also think that back then there was an idea in the weaker counties that the qualifiers would magically lead to the weaker counties getting better, instead of the case where the qualifiers have benefited from those who have put the work in. Now there is a much greatly acceptance that there is no magic bullet quick fix to improving the weaker counties.
Ask those in the weaker counties what getting hammerings from the big counties does on the coal-face in terms of trying to promote football in those counties and trying to get players to commit or sponsors to come on board.
How many kids in Longford were dreaming of playing in Croke Park this week?

How many kids are dreaming of winning the Tier 4 All Ireland Get out of Everyone Else's way championship?