All Ireland u21 football championship 2015

[Syferus]

Still a bit unbelievable that none of the Tyrone supporters will admit to the blatantly obvious about their own team. Look, you had good footballers but if you can't see something institutional about the cynicism - which in both the AISF and AI final this year went so far as to seriously endanger the health of their opponents on numerous occasions in an attempt to win - then there really is no point in the rest of us trying to converse with you. Tyrone (and Donegal under Jim) have a win at all costs mentality that goes above and beyond what most other counties are willing to do. Trying to distract from that fact with an incident where a Tipp player stamped on a Tyrone player doesn't really wash with most people either.

Live in the world where it's all one great big media conspiracy.

im not sure what your point is - seriously. do you really think that Tyrone coach cynicism at all levels? Just because Joe Brolly said it on tv therefor it MUST be true...?

I don't profess to have any knowledge of what Tyrone teach or preach behind closed doors but the mentality is plain for anyone to see. Maybe it's just in the ether in the county now and every young team takes up the mantle of the teams they grew up watching. I doubt the players are being told to stop it and they continually take the field and ignore the wishes of their coaches - if it isn't being coached it certainly isn't being actively coached against. Whatever the case it exists and it's something Tyrone would be better off without.

[Put Up That Flag]

So to all the haters leave off, congratulate or say nothing, let the players enjoy the win and if you want to plot their downfall... do it on the pitch and don't try and discredit this team for coming through a very tough campaign and playing some great football, a fantastic achievement.

So congrats our u21s you've done us proud and commiserations to Tipp after putting up a great display

Congrats Tipp on trying to play against the dark artists, it was always an up hill dask.

Hopefully Donegal will hammer them in a couple weeks before they exist the championship with a whimper in the qualifiers and that will be the end of the cynical,  off the ball and dirty tactics for another year

[BennyHarp]

So to all the haters leave off, congratulate or say nothing, let the players enjoy the win and if you want to plot their downfall... do it on the pitch and don't try and discredit this team for coming through a very tough campaign and playing some great football, a fantastic achievement.

So congrats our u21s you've done us proud and commiserations to Tipp after putting up a great display

Congrats Tipp on trying to play against the dark artists, it was always an up hill dask.

Hopefully Donegal will hammer them in a couple weeks before they exist the championship with a whimper in the qualifiers and that will be the end of the cynical,  off the ball and dirty tactics for another year

All hail Donegal! The saviours from cynical football. This post highlights the lunacy of public perception at the minute! Donegal will save us from cynical football? Give me strength! 

[DermyTDredi]

Still a bit unbelievable that none of the Tyrone supporters will admit to the blatantly obvious about their own team. Look, you had good footballers but if you can't see something institutional about the cynicism - which in both the AISF and AI final this year went so far as to seriously endanger the health of their opponents on numerous occasions in an attempt to win - then there really is no point in the rest of us trying to converse with you. Tyrone (and Donegal under Jim) have a win at all costs mentality that goes above and beyond what most other counties are willing to do. Trying to distract from that fact with an incident where a Tipp player stamped on a Tyrone player doesn't really wash with most people either.

Live in the world where it's all one great big media conspiracy.

im not sure what your point is - seriously. do you really think that Tyrone coach cynicism at all levels? Just because Joe Brolly said it on tv therefor it MUST be true...?

I don't profess to have any knowledge of what Tyrone teach or preach behind closed doors but the mentality is plain for anyone to see. Maybe it's just in the ether in the county now and every young team takes up the mantle of the teams they grew up watching. I doubt the players are being told to stop it and they continually take the field and ignore the wishes of their coaches - if it isn't being coached it certainly isn't being actively coached against. Whatever the case it exists and it's something Tyrone would be better off without.

I would say that the younger players try and emulate the older ones for sure - but i suspect that if youngsters want to be copying sean cavanagh they have a greater body of work to copy from in terms of point taking against mcmanus pull downs.

my point is that everyone is throwing stones in their own glass house....the media have made tyrone unpopular and they certainly are not the only team that want to win with the team they have...Kerry, cork, donegal, cavan, Monaghan, armagh all do their best to win 0- at all costs and Id arguably say that only Mayo and Dublin are teams in any way able to take the moral high ground...and to that i'd say just watch what dublin and mayo do to win this year

[DermyTDredi]

I think it far more likely that the dark arts are being encouraged by the likes of Dooher and Canavan who were well known to engage and employ these tactics themselves as players. Logan as others have rightly pointed out is a well respected figure and that is probably why he has been appointed manager with the other 2 in the background. It will be very interesting to see the dynamic when they step up to take the senior team next year. Will Logan take the helm at senior level or will Canavan jump directly into the managers seat?   

you are so wrong about Canavan - have you ever seen the treatment doled out to him? he has had to stand up fro himself over the years and compensate his lack of height with core strength and guile...not dirty..Dirty = Tommy Dowd.

People are at a seriously naive level to believe that Tyrone actually coach this shit....any strategy....for that matter?

I think Logan will have to take serious look at the impact of the time taken against running a very successful business. Doha is a class act but may struggle unless they can design a jersey with subtitles...Canavan might not want to jump into mickeys grave so soon...and who said that Mickey is for leaving?? 

[yellowcard]

I think it far more likely that the dark arts are being encouraged by the likes of Dooher and Canavan who were well known to engage and employ these tactics themselves as players. Logan as others have rightly pointed out is a well respected figure and that is probably why he has been appointed manager with the other 2 in the background. It will be very interesting to see the dynamic when they step up to take the senior team next year. Will Logan take the helm at senior level or will Canavan jump directly into the managers seat?   

you are so wrong about Canavan - have you ever seen the treatment doled out to him? he has had to stand up fro himself over the years and compensate his lack of height with core strength and guile...not dirty..Dirty = Tommy Dowd.

People are at a seriously naive level to believe that Tyrone actually coach this shit....any strategy....for that matter?

I think Logan will have to take serious look at the impact of the time taken against running a very successful business. Doha is a class act but may struggle unless they can design a jersey with subtitles...Canavan might not want to jump into mickeys grave so soon...and who said that Mickey is for leaving?? 

Thats what makes it all the more disappointing with Canavan, that he was such a highly skilled footballer, yet he is a total pragmatist at the same time. I remember him pulling down a Kerry man in injury time of the 2005 AI final with a rugby tackle, cynicism at its finest. I also seem to remember him having an altercation in a shower in a Tyrone club match so don't pretend he was always the one sinned against. Even at managerial level his football style with Fermanagh was symptomatic of a modern game plan where possession is king and the number one priority was a sound defensive system. Dooher I know less about at managerial level but from what I've seen first hand, he gets too involved sledging opposition players and management.

Nobody said Harte is definitely gone but his term is up this year and unless they win an Ulster or get to an AI final I can't see him having the will to continue and it just may be that it is the end of the road for him at this level. 

Not sure what the bit about Dooher and subtitles means???

[nrico2006]

That's my point and no disrespect to the Cavan and Galway men here. This Tyrone crop will have their work cut out big time. They are coming into a senior panel that just just doesn't have the quality. Much like Cavan and Galway. As I said in the earlier post Donegal had McGee x 2, Lacey, Gallagher, Kavanagh, McFadden.

Of course they have their work cut out, just like any other team that was fed with a successful core of All Ireland u-21's.  But from a Tyrone fans perspective, its about producing talent and winning talent, and producing another successful underage team (on top of the 2008 and 2010 AI Minor winning teams and the unlucky 2013 Minor runners up) makes the future look more positive.  This management team have done a great job and I for one would like to see them step up a level in 2017 as they seem to be able to drill the team to play to the demands required for modern day success.

Still a bit unbelievable that none of the Tyrone supporters will admit to the blatantly obvious about their own team. Look, you had good footballers but if you can't see something institutional about the cynicism - which in both the AISF and AI final this year went so far as to seriously endanger the health of their opponents on numerous occasions in an attempt to win - then there really is no point in the rest of us trying to converse with you. Tyrone (and Donegal under Jim) have a win at all costs mentality that goes above and beyond what most other counties are willing to do. Trying to distract from that fact with an incident where a Tipp player stamped on a Tyrone player doesn't really wash with most people either. The fact is you were good enough to win the AI playing quality counter-attacking football without any of the extras. Then you could have rightly ignored the criticism.

I was as happy as anyone when Tyrone won their AIs - it was great to see a county breaking through. But when you see the open play and honesty that typified underage football at the highest levels being replaced with dangerous play and professional cynicism it's depressing. The sad part is that Tyrone's victory this year will encourage managers who are creatively bankrupt to try much the same tactics but without the football skill of this Tyrone team. That's not going to be pretty for anyone.

Live in the world where it's all one great big media conspiracy.

Syferus, you really are a sore loser.  Could you tell me of an example in the final from Saturday of where a Tyrone man endangered a Tipperary players health?  The two major incidents I recall seeing that could have inflicted serious injury were the stamp and the punch which were both from Tipperary players?  Did you not see either incident?  If you think that Tyrone and Donegal are the only teams that have their teams trying to win at all costs you are a bit naive.  The top teams in the country all have that ingrained into their minds, maybe the Roscommon coaches share similar views to yourself going by the lack of success nationally your teams have had of late.

[DermyTDredi]

I think it far more likely that the dark arts are being encouraged by the likes of Dooher and Canavan who were well known to engage and employ these tactics themselves as players. Logan as others have rightly pointed out is a well respected figure and that is probably why he has been appointed manager with the other 2 in the background. It will be very interesting to see the dynamic when they step up to take the senior team next year. Will Logan take the helm at senior level or will Canavan jump directly into the managers seat?   

you are so wrong about Canavan - have you ever seen the treatment doled out to him? he has had to stand up fro himself over the years and compensate his lack of height with core strength and guile...not dirty..Dirty = Tommy Dowd.

People are at a seriously naive level to believe that Tyrone actually coach this shit....any strategy....for that matter?

I think Logan will have to take serious look at the impact of the time taken against running a very successful business. Doha is a class act but may struggle unless they can design a jersey with subtitles...Canavan might not want to jump into mickeys grave so soon...and who said that Mickey is for leaving?? 

Thats what makes it all the more disappointing with Canavan, that he was such a highly skilled footballer, yet he is a total pragmatist at the same time. I remember him pulling down a Kerry man in injury time of the 2005 AI final with a rugby tackle, cynicism at its finest. I also seem to remember him having an altercation in a shower in a Tyrone club match so don't pretend he was always the one sinned against. Even at managerial level his football style with Fermanagh was symptomatic of a modern game plan where possession is king and the number one priority was a sound defensive system. Dooher I know less about at managerial level but from what I've seen first hand, he gets too involved sledging opposition players and management.

Nobody said Harte is definitely gone but his term is up this year and unless they win an Ulster or get to an AI final I can't see him having the will to continue and it just may be that it is the end of the road for him at this level.

I dont have a narrowcast view on canavan - or tyrone for that matter...id like to think that Im open-minded on the game, tactics and other teams. There is a distorted view about Tyrone based simply on what a few pundits say and a complete lack of self-awareness when it comes to your own teams...a stranger to the sport, reading these threads would believe that Tyrone are the only team to HAVE ever sledged, tackled late or loose, or pulled men down....take the blinkers off....i dont think we are whiter than white but we have been sinned against as much as anyone else and sin as often as most others.....i just dont believe everything i hear in the media

[GalwayBayBoy]

Cathal McShane's 49th minute goal is ultimately what separated these counties in a gripping All-Ireland under-21 football final. It's Tyrone's first national title at this grade since 2001. That group ended up populating Mickey Harte's senior panel as a golden era flowed.

Maybe it's brewing again.

Unfortunately, Tyrone's success is once again coupled with criticism of their on-field demeanour. In the ugly aftermath, both managers sought to avoid a war of words but the vast philosophical gulf in their approach to Gaelic football was all too evident.

"Maybe we need to get a small bit more cynical," said Tipperary manager Tommy Toomey. "There's a lot of stuff going on in these games and Tipperary have to learn and I think we will."

Do you think Tyrone were cynical? "Look, it's just part of the game at the moment. Tackling off the ball, the rules are there to tidy this up. If they are not working, what can you do?"

Whilst Toomey was speaking, Tyrone manager Fergal Logan was blocked, by Tipperary officials, from entering the losing dressing room to offer his commiserations. A fuming Logan requested a moment to calm down.

"We went out to play the game in the right manner," an unaware Toomey continued. "Tyrone went out to play the game their way. I'm afraid Tyrone beat us tonight and are deserved champions, they are leading on the scoreboard at the end of the game, that's it."

The repetitive fouling of Tipp's brilliant midfielder Colin O'Riordan is mentioned.

"That's what I'm talking about," Toomey continued. "We know how they play the game, how they play against referees and that's how they win.

"We knew what we were coming into. We had the boys well versed what to expect verbally. I give great credit to Tyrone for the way they play football. I don't think they should be going at that stuff. I think they are better at playing football. That was a very good game, if you take all those bits and pieces out of it."

"A heartbreaking finish for Tipperary, I understand that heart break," he said, immediately remembering the 1995 All-Ireland final defeat to Dublin. "I've spoken to a couple of their officials there and was not allowed in their dressing room. I think it's gone a bit extreme. It's pretty raw at the moment but I hope relations between Tipperary and Tyrone football don't get to that pitch where we have guys putting people out of dressing rooms.

"But I can promise you this: I've told our men never to sledge or talk to people, not to conduct themselves cynically.

"There were boys buying frees on both teams. I'm just disappointed that would happen there in the GAA world.

"I don't want to make a major fuss," Logan stressed. "I thought it was a sporting game of football but maybe not, maybe others see it different."

[red hander]

So to all the haters leave off, congratulate or say nothing, let the players enjoy the win and if you want to plot their downfall... do it on the pitch and don't try and discredit this team for coming through a very tough campaign and playing some great football, a fantastic achievement.

So congrats our u21s you've done us proud and commiserations to Tipp after putting up a great display

Congrats Tipp on trying to play against the dark artists, it was always an up hill dask.

Hopefully Donegal will hammer them in a couple weeks before they exist the championship with a whimper in the qualifiers and that will be the end of the cynical,  off the ball and dirty tactics for another year

At this precise moment I am attempting to get a tune out of the world's smallest violin ... eejit

[INDIANA]

Still a bit unbelievable that none of the Tyrone supporters will admit to the blatantly obvious about their own team. Look, you had good footballers but if you can't see something institutional about the cynicism - which in both the AISF and AI final this year went so far as to seriously endanger the health of their opponents on numerous occasions in an attempt to win - then there really is no point in the rest of us trying to converse with you. Tyrone (and Donegal under Jim) have a win at all costs mentality that goes above and beyond what most other counties are willing to do. Trying to distract from that fact with an incident where a Tipp player stamped on a Tyrone player doesn't really wash with most people either.

Live in the world where it's all one great big media conspiracy.

im not sure what your point is - seriously. do you really think that Tyrone coach cynicism at all levels? Just because Joe Brolly said it on tv therefor it MUST be true...?

I don't profess to have any knowledge of what Tyrone teach or preach behind closed doors but the mentality is plain for anyone to see. Maybe it's just in the ether in the county now and every young team takes up the mantle of the teams they grew up watching. I doubt the players are being told to stop it and they continually take the field and ignore the wishes of their coaches - if it isn't being coached it certainly isn't being actively coached against. Whatever the case it exists and it's something Tyrone would be better off without.

I would say that the younger players try and emulate the older ones for sure - but i suspect that if youngsters want to be copying sean cavanagh they have a greater body of work to copy from in terms of point taking against mcmanus pull downs.

my point is that everyone is throwing stones in their own glass house....the media have made tyrone unpopular and they certainly are not the only team that want to win with the team they have...Kerry, cork, donegal, cavan, Monaghan, armagh all do their best to win 0- at all costs and Id arguably say that only Mayo and Dublin are teams in any way able to take the moral high ground...and to that i'd say just watch what dublin and mayo do to win this year

Absolute horsehit. Tyrone have made tyrone unpopular.

Whether it was kneeing opponents in the back, sourcing opponents girlsfriends numbers and reciting them over and over to their opponents during matches, spitting, gouging- I'm struggling to think of the last time Martin Breheny did that.


Could you point one out please.

Tyrone have a rap sheet because they created it- nobody else

[rodney trotter]

Phyical element probaly comes from club football in Tyrone, been a few incidents over the years. Other Counties too, but maybe more so in Tyrone?

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDoQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rte.ie%2Fsport%2Fgaa%2F2011%2F0419%2Fmcmahonj.html&ei=WYVHVafCLvKP7AbD3YHwDg&usg=AFQjCNFnCp2nVDMgT6KL8nhp_YJFfQ9hUQ&bvm=bv.92291466,d.ZGU

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CE4QFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joe.ie%2Funcategorized%2Ftyrone-gaa-reacts-to-umbrella-brawl-with-nine-years-of-bans%2F29699&ei=W4ZHVcm_LMSE7gaJ6YCADw&usg=AFQjCNHTpSVjgt7Xjufb8oMAdT8yq-_XQw

[sensethetone]

Tyrone haven't started a free for all while getting behind the band yet, maybe that's the next move. Well as long as the best players don't get their hand broken.

[BennyHarp]

Phyical element probaly comes from club football in Tyrone, been a few incidents over the years. Other Counties too, but maybe more so in Tyrone?

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDoQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rte.ie%2Fsport%2Fgaa%2F2011%2F0419%2Fmcmahonj.html&ei=WYVHVafCLvKP7AbD3YHwDg&usg=AFQjCNFnCp2nVDMgT6KL8nhp_YJFfQ9hUQ&bvm=bv.92291466,d.ZGU

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CE4QFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joe.ie%2Funcategorized%2Ftyrone-gaa-reacts-to-umbrella-brawl-with-nine-years-of-bans%2F29699&ei=W4ZHVcm_LMSE7gaJ6YCADw&usg=AFQjCNHTpSVjgt7Xjufb8oMAdT8yq-_XQw

I assume you have evidence to suggest this happens more so in Tyrone? I played club football in Tyrone for many years and can count on one hand the amount of unsavoury incidents I encountered!

[DermyTDredi]

Still a bit unbelievable that none of the Tyrone supporters will admit to the blatantly obvious about their own team. Look, you had good footballers but if you can't see something institutional about the cynicism - which in both the AISF and AI final this year went so far as to seriously endanger the health of their opponents on numerous occasions in an attempt to win - then there really is no point in the rest of us trying to converse with you. Tyrone (and Donegal under Jim) have a win at all costs mentality that goes above and beyond what most other counties are willing to do. Trying to distract from that fact with an incident where a Tipp player stamped on a Tyrone player doesn't really wash with most people either.

Live in the world where it's all one great big media conspiracy.

im not sure what your point is - seriously. do you really think that Tyrone coach cynicism at all levels? Just because Joe Brolly said it on tv therefor it MUST be true...?

I don't profess to have any knowledge of what Tyrone teach or preach behind closed doors but the mentality is plain for anyone to see. Maybe it's just in the ether in the county now and every young team takes up the mantle of the teams they grew up watching. I doubt the players are being told to stop it and they continually take the field and ignore the wishes of their coaches - if it isn't being coached it certainly isn't being actively coached against. Whatever the case it exists and it's something Tyrone would be better off without.

I would say that the younger players try and emulate the older ones for sure - but i suspect that if youngsters want to be copying sean cavanagh they have a greater body of work to copy from in terms of point taking against mcmanus pull downs.

my point is that everyone is throwing stones in their own glass house....the media have made tyrone unpopular and they certainly are not the only team that want to win with the team they have...Kerry, cork, donegal, cavan, Monaghan, armagh all do their best to win 0- at all costs and Id arguably say that only Mayo and Dublin are teams in any way able to take the moral high ground...and to that i'd say just watch what dublin and mayo do to win this year

Absolute horsehit. Tyrone have made tyrone unpopular.

Whether it was kneeing opponents in the back, sourcing opponents girlsfriends numbers and reciting them over and over to their opponents during matches, spitting, gouging- I'm struggling to think of the last time Martin Breheny did that.


Could you point one out please.

Tyrone have a rap sheet because they created it- nobody else

Really?
Stephen O'Neill v Cork in Anthony Lynch in 2009
Peter Harte v Mayo 2013
Dooher, Canavan, mcBride v Meath 1996
McKeever v cavanagh 2014

you ask any of the 1993-94 Down team and they will tell you that Derry were a dirty shower...but given that there were only 1-2 cameras, the stuff stayed well hidden...its not a new thing and its not a tyrone thing

You have a myopic view of Tyrone - Im not saying we are saints but the media have unquestionably exacerbated the situation, lead by Brolly, Cummiskey et al

in 2005 or 2006 Paul galvin hit Kieran mcgeeny 3 times in 20 minutes - all illegal....Cavan, Donegal, Cork...f**k sake...every team have their moments...it is what it is....

hardly the fault of u21s or the assumption that the managers have systematically coached players from an early age? Sure thing joe brolly...