The Bible in quotations

[muppet]

Muppet I don't think it's fair to continually drag up old conversations because perhaps you're bored.
It has been discussed a couple of times on this board about Old Testament versus New Testament. All the quotes you bring up are mostly from the Old Testament.
The New Testament supersedes the old. Jesus fulfilled the teaching of the old. The old was designed to point the Jewish people to the Jewish Messiah. Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament and Jesus' teaching supersedes it.

Go an read a Catholic catechism or Pope Francis' teachings and show me where any of these things are promoted that you quote.

I don't know what your ultimate intent is in all of this? To save people? Are you genuinely interested in saving Christians from Christ? Or are you doing your best to reason with others on the subject in an effort to convince yourself? Something deep inside you telling you there's more....? Watch you don't get knocked off your horse Saul....

I am doing it because I am interested and so far very little of the modern version of religion and its application stands up to any serious scrutiny. The overwhelming evidence is that Jesus existed and by any account was an amazing person. That is beyond dispute. The problem arises with His successors and the rules and regulations they put in place.

As for the Old Testament, according to the Bible Jesus called it the Word of God on many occasions. Everyone, religious and atheists included, cherrypicks from the Bible to suit their agenda. That is a massive problem imho.

Do you think you will find your answers on the gaaboard?

I realise it is like seeking marriage guidance from a celibate, but there are some great posters here.

[Hardy]

Why is it God's fault J70? Why not yours? You have extra money I'm sure and plenty of time on your hands it seems. I'm sure you blew money on stupid things like all the rest of us growing up? and still today?
I wonder if all that excess we have and waste was given to the poor, the suffering, the marginalized.,,,, I wonder would they have enough food and water and shelter, I wonder would we have more cures for diseases...I wonder.....
why is there suffering?

Funny, God was just about to ask us the same thing....

Which human being is responsible for the burrowing insect that eats a child's eye from the inside out?

[thewobbler]

That quote from Epicurous reminds me again of my ongoing struggle with the God fella since primary school (yep, that long).

I can get why God can't make stones so big that he can't lift them. After all, that would be a pointless endeavour to undertake.

But I've never been able to grasp how human freewill and God's omniscience can possibly co-exist. I'm sure our more religious brethern will advise that it's simply beyond our small little minds to comprehend such things. Which might be true. But if he knows how people will behave, react, pursue and exist, then freewill cannot exist; indeed we've all been preordained as heading to heaven or hell and there's not a darn thing we can do about it.

Alternatively if he doesn't know all these things, then with 6bn people changing the algorithms of good and evil every moment of every day, then I'd guess he's working on a new project with less variance to replace us. That would be the sensible thing to do.

[muppet]

Could he really burn his children in Hell for all of eternity?

[The Iceman]

Muppet I don't think it's fair to continually drag up old conversations because perhaps you're bored.
It has been discussed a couple of times on this board about Old Testament versus New Testament. All the quotes you bring up are mostly from the Old Testament.
The New Testament supersedes the old. Jesus fulfilled the teaching of the old. The old was designed to point the Jewish people to the Jewish Messiah. Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament and Jesus' teaching supersedes it.

Go an read a Catholic catechism or Pope Francis' teachings and show me where any of these things are promoted that you quote.

I don't know what your ultimate intent is in all of this? To save people? Are you genuinely interested in saving Christians from Christ? Or are you doing your best to reason with others on the subject in an effort to convince yourself? Something deep inside you telling you there's more....? Watch you don't get knocked off your horse Saul....

I am doing it because I am interested and so far very little of the modern version of religion and its application stands up to any serious scrutiny. The overwhelming evidence is that Jesus existed and by any account was an amazing person. That is beyond dispute. The problem arises with His successors and the rules and regulations they put in place.

As for the Old Testament, according to the Bible Jesus called it the Word of God on many occasions. Everyone, religious and atheists included, cherrypicks from the Bible to suit their agenda. That is a massive problem imho.

Do you think you will find your answers on the gaaboard?

I realise it is like seeking marriage guidance from a celibate, but there are some great posters here.

I don't think you always get answers by talking to people who agree with you.... and Tony Fearon is hardly the voice of balance.

[muppet]

Muppet I don't think it's fair to continually drag up old conversations because perhaps you're bored.
It has been discussed a couple of times on this board about Old Testament versus New Testament. All the quotes you bring up are mostly from the Old Testament.
The New Testament supersedes the old. Jesus fulfilled the teaching of the old. The old was designed to point the Jewish people to the Jewish Messiah. Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament and Jesus' teaching supersedes it.

Go an read a Catholic catechism or Pope Francis' teachings and show me where any of these things are promoted that you quote.

I don't know what your ultimate intent is in all of this? To save people? Are you genuinely interested in saving Christians from Christ? Or are you doing your best to reason with others on the subject in an effort to convince yourself? Something deep inside you telling you there's more....? Watch you don't get knocked off your horse Saul....

I am doing it because I am interested and so far very little of the modern version of religion and its application stands up to any serious scrutiny. The overwhelming evidence is that Jesus existed and by any account was an amazing person. That is beyond dispute. The problem arises with His successors and the rules and regulations they put in place.

As for the Old Testament, according to the Bible Jesus called it the Word of God on many occasions. Everyone, religious and atheists included, cherrypicks from the Bible to suit their agenda. That is a massive problem imho.

Do you think you will find your answers on the gaaboard?

I realise it is like seeking marriage guidance from a celibate, but there are some great posters here.

I don't think you always get answers by talking to people who agree with you.... and Tony Fearon is hardly the voice of balance.

I agree completely.

I went to a boarding school where we had mass every day. I find The Bible fascinating as a telescope into history and still enjoy reading bits of it. I have been reading (not finished) this book lately: The Lost Gospel: Decoding the Ancient Text That Reveals Jesus' Marriage to Mary the Magdalene by Simcha Jacobovici, Barrie Wilson.

I am familiar with a lot of the arguments supporting some of the religions. But I am sure there are many I haven't heard and am always willing to hear someone persuasive on almost any subject.

Reading this thread, and it is reflected more and more in Irish society nowadays, I find the more convincing arguments come from outside defenders of religion. But please prove me wrong.

[The Iceman]

Muppet I don't think it's fair to continually drag up old conversations because perhaps you're bored.
It has been discussed a couple of times on this board about Old Testament versus New Testament. All the quotes you bring up are mostly from the Old Testament.
The New Testament supersedes the old. Jesus fulfilled the teaching of the old. The old was designed to point the Jewish people to the Jewish Messiah. Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament and Jesus' teaching supersedes it.

Go an read a Catholic catechism or Pope Francis' teachings and show me where any of these things are promoted that you quote.

I don't know what your ultimate intent is in all of this? To save people? Are you genuinely interested in saving Christians from Christ? Or are you doing your best to reason with others on the subject in an effort to convince yourself? Something deep inside you telling you there's more....? Watch you don't get knocked off your horse Saul....

I am doing it because I am interested and so far very little of the modern version of religion and its application stands up to any serious scrutiny. The overwhelming evidence is that Jesus existed and by any account was an amazing person. That is beyond dispute. The problem arises with His successors and the rules and regulations they put in place.

As for the Old Testament, according to the Bible Jesus called it the Word of God on many occasions. Everyone, religious and atheists included, cherrypicks from the Bible to suit their agenda. That is a massive problem imho.

Do you think you will find your answers on the gaaboard?

I realise it is like seeking marriage guidance from a celibate, but there are some great posters here.

I don't think you always get answers by talking to people who agree with you.... and Tony Fearon is hardly the voice of balance.

I agree completely.

I went to a boarding school where we had mass every day. I find The Bible fascinating as a telescope into history and still enjoy reading bits of it. I have been reading (not finished) this book lately: The Lost Gospel: Decoding the Ancient Text That Reveals Jesus' Marriage to Mary the Magdalene by Simcha Jacobovici, Barrie Wilson.

I am familiar with a lot of the arguments supporting some of the religions. But I am sure there are many I haven't heard and am always willing to hear someone persuasive on almost any subject.

Reading this thread, and it is reflected more and more in Irish society nowadays, I find the more convincing arguments come from outside defenders of religion. But please prove me wrong.

but if you enjoy the bible so much why read works of fiction?
look at the constitution in america. imagine what would happen if everyone was handed the constitution on a piece of paper and told to figure it out. Go on ahead, make up your own mind on what it means and live accordingly.
obviously that didn't happen. The founding fathers of the country were wise enough to but institutions and governing bodies in place to discern the constitution and make laws accordingly.
If you believe in God then surely he is as smart as those first americans? surely He would leave behind some kind of institution to help discern what its all about and lead the people..... nope of course He didn't. He gave us Barrie Wilson -who know's so much more about God's will than God.....

and if you agree Jesus existed the very basic arguments are there. He was the Son of God, He was evil, or He was a lunatic.... He can only be one of the three.

[muppet]

but if you enjoy the bible so much why read works of fiction?
look at the constitution in america. imagine what would happen if everyone was handed the constitution on a piece of paper and told to figure it out. Go on ahead, make up your own mind on what it means and live accordingly.
obviously that didn't happen. The founding fathers of the country were wise enough to but institutions and governing bodies in place to discern the constitution and make laws accordingly.
If you believe in God then surely he is as smart as those first americans? surely He would leave behind some kind of institution to help discern what its all about and lead the people..... nope of course He didn't. He gave us Barrie Wilson -who know's so much more about God's will than God.....

and if you agree Jesus existed the very basic arguments are there. He was the Son of God, He was evil, or He was a lunatic.... He can only be one of the three.

God didn't sign The Bible.

As for The Lost Gospel(s), if it is carbon dated to the same time as the other Gospels, then it is as credible as any other book imho until proven otherwise.

The final composition (what books were in and what were not) of The New Testament was only loosely agreed in 393 AD and formally recognised as authoritative in 692 AD.

[LCohen]

I may be wrong but would you not be better quoting the New Testament, rather than the Old Testament?

the thread is in parallel to the gay marriage thread. On that as before people have used "scripture" as a justifation for bigotry and dark ages "morality". When called upon for evidence from scripture the little they come up with comes from the old testament

[LCohen]

Muppet I don't think it's fair to continually drag up old conversations because perhaps you're bored.
It has been discussed a couple of times on this board about Old Testament versus New Testament. All the quotes you bring up are mostly from the Old Testament.
The New Testament supersedes the old. Jesus fulfilled the teaching of the old. The old was designed to point the Jewish people to the Jewish Messiah. Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament and Jesus' teaching supersedes it.

Go an read a Catholic catechism or Pope Francis' teachings and show me where any of these things are promoted that you quote.

I don't know what your ultimate intent is in all of this? To save people? Are you genuinely interested in saving Christians from Christ? Or are you doing your best to reason with others on the subject in an effort to convince yourself? Something deep inside you telling you there's more....? Watch you don't get knocked off your horse Saul....

You don't need to convince me that people that use the old testament to inform their moraility or somewhat out of date and a bit behind the pace

[bennydorano]

I always enjoy reading Iceman's thoughts on Religion, lucid & thoughtful.

I sometimes think he makes the points an Agnostic would make as opposed to a Christian? More Q than God?

[The Iceman]

I always enjoy reading Iceman's thoughts on Religion, lucid & thoughtful.

I sometimes think he makes the points an Agnostic would make as opposed to a Christian? More Q than God?

I have none of this figured out Benny unfortunately. I wrestle constantly with my living out of my faith and the why..... I also have 4 young kids who ask loads of questions that promotes lots of healthy conversation at the dinner table.
St Paul says you have to work your salvation out. Hopefully this is what he meant...

[screenexile]

If Jesus was the son of god 2000 odd years ago how can we be so certain there hasn't been another one sent? Do David Icke and the Waco guy not have equal claim... What are we basing it on?

Isn't there a massive chance that Jesus was a confidence trickster who was extremely intelligent/deluded and was able to brainwash a lot of people who were ripe for the taking?

Can creationism exist given the overwhelming evidence of the universe being Billions of years old? What about Dinosaurs and surely there's no way Noah had 2 of everything on his boat. Did he have the insects that eat your eyes from the inside on as well?

These are some of the questions I struggle with. I would like to think there was a God and I'm open to it but I need something more than "you just have to have faith" to convince me!

[The Iceman]

If Jesus was the son of god 2000 odd years ago how can we be so certain there hasn't been another one sent? Do David Icke and the Waco guy not have equal claim... What are we basing it on?

Isn't there a massive chance that Jesus was a confidence trickster who was extremely intelligent/deluded and was able to brainwash a lot of people who were ripe for the taking?

Can creationism exist given the overwhelming evidence of the universe being Billions of years old? What about Dinosaurs and surely there's no way Noah had 2 of everything on his boat. Did he have the insects that eat your eyes from the inside on as well?

These are some of the questions I struggle with. I would like to think there was a God and I'm open to it but I need something more than "you just have to have faith" to convince me!

There have been many people who have claimed to be God, the Son of God, the Daughter of God.... They've all died. Jesus rose from the dead and stands undisputed on that front....

If he was a confidence trickster - what did he gain from it? Oh yeah - He was beaten, tortured, scourged and crucified - that worked out....

I think Science and Creationism are aligning slowly. I don't know how literal the animal stories are but surely you see the correlation between the big bang and God speaking the world into existence?

Again you and muppet could find better answers on other forums but without "faith" I don't know how open to anyone's answers you might ever be...

[J70]

If Jesus was the son of god 2000 odd years ago how can we be so certain there hasn't been another one sent? Do David Icke and the Waco guy not have equal claim... What are we basing it on?

Isn't there a massive chance that Jesus was a confidence trickster who was extremely intelligent/deluded and was able to brainwash a lot of people who were ripe for the taking?

Can creationism exist given the overwhelming evidence of the universe being Billions of years old? What about Dinosaurs and surely there's no way Noah had 2 of everything on his boat. Did he have the insects that eat your eyes from the inside on as well?

These are some of the questions I struggle with. I would like to think there was a God and I'm open to it but I need something more than "you just have to have faith" to convince me!

There have been many people who have claimed to be God, the Son of God, the Daughter of God.... They've all died. Jesus rose from the dead and stands undisputed on that front....

If he was a confidence trickster - what did he gain from it? Oh yeah - He was beaten, tortured, scourged and crucified - that worked out....

I think Science and Creationism are aligning slowly. I don't know how literal the animal stories are but surely you see the correlation between the big bang and God speaking the world into existence?

Again you and muppet could find better answers on other forums but without "faith" I don't know how open to anyone's answers you might ever be...

Come on man, that is thin! The only commonality between the big bang and "God speaking the world into existence" is that they both are a starting point. Given that the universe and earth have to have a starting point somewhere, "God speaking the world into existence" can be consistent with whatever theory is put forward by cosmologists. If the big bang is replaced tomorrow by some other model, the "God speaking..." will not suffer one bit.

(BTW, if you're talking literally about the earth and not the universe, there is a gap of 9 odd billion years between the big bang and the formation of the earth.)

As for the animals (and plants, fungi, algae, bacteria etc. etc.), creationism is nonsense, pure and simple. Even the Catholic Church hierarchy now accept that evolutionary biology offers the best explanation for the development of life on earth. Sure, they dress it up in a few undetectable extras such as the instillation of a soul in humans somewhere along the line, but creationism it ain't. But any supposed alignment is the church accepting that some things are undeniable and moving toward science, not the other way around.

Believe me, I give them credit for it. There are plenty of religions and sects who embrace willful ignorance and fraud when it comes to science.