The developing UK constitutional crisis and the status of Northern Ireland

[armaghniac]

There is if the Protestant population as a whole is not as educated as the Catholic population. You can't stop people going away for economic reasons- what counts is the capacity of those people who stay . And in the case of the Protestant community the ones who stay are less educated than their catholic equivalents.

This trend has particular implications. You will have a situation where people like health professional etc are mostly from a Catholic background and then you'll have fair employment issues arising because the number of Catholic speech therapists exceeds their ratio in the general community.

If you'd loads of unemployed Protestant speech therapists then you'd have a point.

I'm not familiar with speech therapists or health profession in general, but it seems at least possible that the number studying this might exceed the number employed by the health service in a year, so the issue could arise. If present cutbacks meant a reduction in recruitment for a year or two then then this problem might become obvious.

[Kidder81]

Sorry but what is the evidence that protestants in NI are less well educated than catholics?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-26855040

"Poorer Protestant boys in Northern Ireland are seriously underachieving at school according to a new report.
Only Roma and Traveller children are getting poorer results, according to the study by the Community Relations Council."

That is shocking. Paisley never gave a sh$t about those people.
There must be some kind of communal trauma going on with results that are that bad.
Are there stats for rates of alcoholism or other social problems by community in NI ?

There is a lot of coded language going on in this thread that many of you do not seem to pick up on. Whenever one wants to denigrate the supposed intelligence of another group one talks about "educational" issues with such group. This is  racism 101. It has been used against us often enough that I am surprised more people than Lcohen are not calling bullshit on Seafoid on this one.Then throw in the question about rates of alcoholism ....  He might as well compose the punch cartoon while he is at it...

His modus operandi for sectarian demonization should be screamingly obvious to people at this stage.

I wonder is he as "shocked" about the comparable educational achievements of working class Catholic boys, highlighted in my previous post.

[Mike Sheehy]

Sorry but what is the evidence that protestants in NI are less well educated than catholics?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-26855040

"Poorer Protestant boys in Northern Ireland are seriously underachieving at school according to a new report.
Only Roma and Traveller children are getting poorer results, according to the study by the Community Relations Council."

That is shocking. Paisley never gave a sh$t about those people.
There must be some kind of communal trauma going on with results that are that bad.
Are there stats for rates of alcoholism or other social problems by community in NI ?

There is a lot of coded language going on in this thread that many of you do not seem to pick up on. Whenever one wants to denigrate the supposed intelligence of another group one talks about "educational" issues with such group. This is  racism 101. It has been used against us often enough that I am surprised more people than Lcohen are not calling bullshit on Seafoid on this one.Then throw in the question about rates of alcoholism ....  He might as well compose the punch cartoon while he is at it...

His modus operandi for sectarian demonization should be screamingly obvious to people at this stage.

[Mike Sheehy]

Sorry but what is the evidence that protestants in NI are less well educated than catholics?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-26855040

"Poorer Protestant boys in Northern Ireland are seriously underachieving at school according to a new report.
Only Roma and Traveller children are getting poorer results, according to the study by the Community Relations Council."

That is shocking. Paisley never gave a sh$t about those people.
There must be some kind of communal trauma going on with results that are that bad.
Are there stats for rates of alcoholism or other social problems by community in NI ?

There is a lot of coded language going on in this thread that many of you do not seem to pick up on. Whenever one wants to denigrate the supposed intelligence of another group one talks about "educational" issues with such group. This is  racism 101. It has been used against us often enough that I am surprised more people than Lcohen are not calling bullshit on Seafoid on this one.Then throw in the question about rates of alcoholism ....  He might as well compose the punch cartoon while he is at it...

His modus operandi for sectarian demonization should be screamingly obvious to people at this stage.

I wonder is he as "shocked" about the comparable educational achievements of working class Catholic boys, highlighted in my previous post.

Demagogues and bigots are only "shocked" at that which does not conform to their simplistic narrative.

[armaghniac]

Sorry but what is the evidence that protestants in NI are less well educated than catholics?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-26855040

"Poorer Protestant boys in Northern Ireland are seriously underachieving at school according to a new report.
Only Roma and Traveller children are getting poorer results, according to the study by the Community Relations Council."

That is shocking. Paisley never gave a sh$t about those people.
There must be some kind of communal trauma going on with results that are that bad.
Are there stats for rates of alcoholism or other social problems by community in NI ?

There is a lot of coded language going on in this thread that many of you do not seem to pick up on. Whenever one wants to denigrate the supposed intelligence of another group one talks about "educational" issues with such group. This is  racism 101. It has been used against us often enough that I am surprised more people than Lcohen are not calling bullshit on Seafoid on this one.Then throw in the question about rates of alcoholism ....  He might as well compose the punch cartoon while he is at it...

His modus operandi for sectarian demonization should be screamingly obvious to people at this stage.

Some people are better educated than others, this is not racism this is a criticism of the schools they attend. Only someone wishing to perpetuate ill education would associate a criticism of education with racism. Stop trying to be a controversial WUM all of the time.

[Mike Sheehy]

Sorry but what is the evidence that protestants in NI are less well educated than catholics?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-26855040

"Poorer Protestant boys in Northern Ireland are seriously underachieving at school according to a new report.
Only Roma and Traveller children are getting poorer results, according to the study by the Community Relations Council."

That is shocking. Paisley never gave a sh$t about those people.
There must be some kind of communal trauma going on with results that are that bad.
Are there stats for rates of alcoholism or other social problems by community in NI ?

There is a lot of coded language going on in this thread that many of you do not seem to pick up on. Whenever one wants to denigrate the supposed intelligence of another group one talks about "educational" issues with such group. This is  racism 101. It has been used against us often enough that I am surprised more people than Lcohen are not calling bullshit on Seafoid on this one.Then throw in the question about rates of alcoholism ....  He might as well compose the punch cartoon while he is at it...

His modus operandi for sectarian demonization should be screamingly obvious to people at this stage.

Some people are better educated than others, this is not racism this is a criticism of the schools they attend. Only someone wishing to perpetuate ill education would associate a criticism of education with racism. Stop trying to be a controversial WUM all of the time.

I wasn't referring to you. I don't think you are capable of the malevolently subtle ways that  Seafoid has of perpetuating his prejudices.

..and that is a compliment, btw.

[Applesisapples]

The reason for under achievement in education in PUL communities can be laid firmly at the door of their politicians who continue to bleat on about grammar schools and protecting their status. There was a culture in PUL communities that you left school and went to work with your dad, uncle etc... But these traditional job opportunities no longer exist and FE legislation makes it harder to gain employment solely on the basis of who you know. Unionist politicians have failed to encourage their communities to move with the times.

[Tony Baloney]

The reason for under achievement in education in PUL communities can be laid firmly at the door of their politicians who continue to bleat on about grammar schools and protecting their status. There was a culture in PUL communities that you left school and went to work with your dad, uncle etc... But these traditional job opportunities no longer exist and FE legislation makes it harder to gain employment solely on the basis of who you know. Unionist politicians have failed to encourage their communities to move with the times.

What's the reason for the stats in the CCMS sector?

[Applesisapples]

The reason for under achievement in education in PUL communities can be laid firmly at the door of their politicians who continue to bleat on about grammar schools and protecting their status. There was a culture in PUL communities that you left school and went to work with your dad, uncle etc... But these traditional job opportunities no longer exist and FE legislation makes it harder to gain employment solely on the basis of who you know. Unionist politicians have failed to encourage their communities to move with the times.

What's the reason for the stats in the CCMS sector?

The CCMS sector is better, but there needs to be greater work done across the board to get working class kids in to education and I don't mean uni. We need to have an education sector that provides apprenticeships and qualifications that can lead to employment. There is a benefits culture in working class nationalist areas that also needs addressed.

[LCohen]

The reason for under achievement in education in PUL communities can be laid firmly at the door of their politicians who continue to bleat on about grammar schools and protecting their status. There was a culture in PUL communities that you left school and went to work with your dad, uncle etc... But these traditional job opportunities no longer exist and FE legislation makes it harder to gain employment solely on the basis of who you know. Unionist politicians have failed to encourage their communities to move with the times.

What's the reason for the stats in the CCMS sector?

The CCMS sector is better, but there needs to be greater work done across the board to get working class kids in to education and I don't mean uni. We need to have an education sector that provides apprenticeships and qualifications that can lead to employment. There is a benefits culture in working class nationalist areas that also needs addressed.

What is the overall score of the CCMS and State systems?

[Tony Baloney]

The reason for under achievement in education in PUL communities can be laid firmly at the door of their politicians who continue to bleat on about grammar schools and protecting their status. There was a culture in PUL communities that you left school and went to work with your dad, uncle etc... But these traditional job opportunities no longer exist and FE legislation makes it harder to gain employment solely on the basis of who you know. Unionist politicians have failed to encourage their communities to move with the times.

What's the reason for the stats in the CCMS sector?

The CCMS sector is better, but there needs to be greater work done across the board to get working class kids in to education and I don't mean uni. We need to have an education sector that provides apprenticeships and qualifications that can lead to employment. There is a benefits culture in working class nationalist areas that also needs addressed.

What is the overall score of the CCMS and State systems?

Someone posted some stats on the previous page or a couple back. The point being that outside the big GAA grammar schools all is not rosy in the garden.

[LCohen]

The reason for under achievement in education in PUL communities can be laid firmly at the door of their politicians who continue to bleat on about grammar schools and protecting their status. There was a culture in PUL communities that you left school and went to work with your dad, uncle etc... But these traditional job opportunities no longer exist and FE legislation makes it harder to gain employment solely on the basis of who you know. Unionist politicians have failed to encourage their communities to move with the times.

What's the reason for the stats in the CCMS sector?

The CCMS sector is better, but there needs to be greater work done across the board to get working class kids in to education and I don't mean uni. We need to have an education sector that provides apprenticeships and qualifications that can lead to employment. There is a benefits culture in working class nationalist areas that also needs addressed.

What is the overall score of the CCMS and State systems?

Someone posted some stats on the previous page or a couple back. The point being that outside the big GAA grammar schools all is not rosy in the garden.

Thats my point.

Some are trying to use a score in a single area (all be it a very important one) as a means of proving that the in overall terms the CCMS system is better than the state system. The debate rarely gets beyond one-up-manship based on invented or at best presumed data.

A more purposeful discussion would be to establish if NI should have 2 separate systems OR what are the means of addressing all the areas of under-achievement?

Real data would inform a better quality of debate

[seafoid]

The reason for under achievement in education in PUL communities can be laid firmly at the door of their politicians who continue to bleat on about grammar schools and protecting their status. There was a culture in PUL communities that you left school and went to work with your dad, uncle etc... But these traditional job opportunities no longer exist and FE legislation makes it harder to gain employment solely on the basis of who you know. Unionist politicians have failed to encourage their communities to move with the times.

Why doesn't the Unionist community do something about this ?
If they don't invest in their weaker communities what sort of a future have they?

[LCohen]

The reason for under achievement in education in PUL communities can be laid firmly at the door of their politicians who continue to bleat on about grammar schools and protecting their status. There was a culture in PUL communities that you left school and went to work with your dad, uncle etc... But these traditional job opportunities no longer exist and FE legislation makes it harder to gain employment solely on the basis of who you know. Unionist politicians have failed to encourage their communities to move with the times.

Why doesn't the Unionist community do isn't something done about this ?
If they we don't invest in their our weaker communities what sort of a future have they we?

I tidied that up for you or at least tried to bring it up to a civilised standard

[Mike Sheehy]

The reason for under achievement in education in PUL communities can be laid firmly at the door of their politicians who continue to bleat on about grammar schools and protecting their status. There was a culture in PUL communities that you left school and went to work with your dad, uncle etc... But these traditional job opportunities no longer exist and FE legislation makes it harder to gain employment solely on the basis of who you know. Unionist politicians have failed to encourage their communities to move with the times.

Why doesn't the Unionist community do isn't something done about this ?
If they we don't invest in their our weaker communities what sort of a future have they we?

I tidied that up for you or at least tried to bring it up to a civilised standard

Quality reply. Very strong.

Pity there was no response. 3 days and counting......