Down Club Hurling & Football

[snoopdog]

Anyone who thinks this isn't the administrators fault needs to take a look at themselves.

- Like others have said the team that finishes top of the league should win the league and this would avoid all of this nonsense.

- Comparing the down gaa club calendar to other professional sports is also a nonsense.  Even for Dundalk there is a lot of money at stake and their players get hundreds if not thousands of pounds to perform when they are told to perform.

I presume the playoff aspect of the league is to compensate clubs adversely affected by the starred games and if it wasn't there the county players would be pulled from pillar to post.

- The pinnacle of the down club season is the senior championship final and this should be the last game in the club season not a league game on a Thursday night in November in front of a couple of hundred people.  There is no reason why the calendar couldn't be centred around getting the league finished up before the championship starts.  Armagh can do it so why cant we.

- Our club record in Ulster over the last 30 years is diabolical so we should be offering Kilcoo all the help we can not hindering their preparation.  Who knows it might actually help the county team in the long run if they could get over the line in Ulster.

- Having the club calendar finalised by early October bar the teams in Ulster allows the club players to have  a meaningful off season and younger lads can concentrate on one team in the winter be it the club under 21s (which is another farce) or college football.  People wonder what we can do for player burnout and some of the issues are staring us right in the face.

great post. Totally agree. The league final (if there's any need for one) should be at start of august, 2 week break then run the championship over the next 5/6 weeks. Championship finals being the end and the pinnacle of the calendar.

Would take common sense lads to organise the league like that.

[6th sam]

Anyone who thinks this isn't the administrators fault needs to take a look at themselves.

- Like others have said the team that finishes top of the league should win the league and this would avoid all of this nonsense.

- Comparing the down gaa club calendar to other professional sports is also a nonsense.  Even for Dundalk there is a lot of money at stake and their players get hundreds if not thousands of pounds to perform when they are told to perform.

I presume the playoff aspect of the league is to compensate clubs adversely affected by the starred games and if it wasn't there the county players would be pulled from pillar to post.

- The pinnacle of the down club season is the senior championship final and this should be the last game in the club season not a league game on a Thursday night in November in front of a couple of hundred people.  There is no reason why the calendar couldn't be centred around getting the league finished up before the championship starts.  Armagh can do it so why cant we.

- Our club record in Ulster over the last 30 years is diabolical so we should be offering Kilcoo all the help we can not hindering their preparation.  Who knows it might actually help the county team in the long run if they could get over the line in Ulster.

- Having the club calendar finalised by early October bar the teams in Ulster allows the club players to have  a meaningful off season and younger lads can concentrate on one team in the winter be it the club under 21s (which is another farce) or college football.  People wonder what we can do for player burnout and some of the issues are staring us right in the face.

great post. Totally agree. The league final (if there's any need for one) should be at start of august, 2 week break then run the championship over the next 5/6 weeks. Championship finals being the end and the pinnacle of the calendar.

Would take common sense lads to organise the league like that.

Hold on lads.
So u want the leagues which usually start mid April to finish less than 4 months later in early August . For several clubs who will be knocked out early in the championship , they'll have a 4 month season . So 98% of our players who are club players only are potentially going to have an 8 month off-season. Those quick to criticise fixture makers should realise there are several factors that must be considered in fixture making.
The problem is , that most clubs don't want to play without their full complement of players, therefore 98% of players are left twiddling their thumbs when there are county matches . Though you can't compare GAA to other sports in many cases, there is a system in rugby which would solve all our problems. Games go ahead without county players, but there are a couple of 8-10 week Windows in the playing season when there is no county football , and during that time there are weekly club matches for all . All but The final 3 weeks of the club championship season (qfinal onwards) should involve games for every club. Importantly this should be nationally imposed on all counties to level the playing field for all counties . If all county finals are complete by end of October , then November December allow run off of the Ulster and allireland club championships , with a pre-Christmas allireland final . The season would look something like this : mar/April: Intercounty grading round robin/ club league football. May/June : Intercounty rest/ club championship round robin. July/August : Intercounty championship , with every county involved up until round before A/B quarter finals, club leagues. AI final end of August . Sept/October club championships with county players, all clubs involved up to  A/B quarter final stage .

Crucial to this is that it must be imposed nationally. It will give every player almost weekly games, provide 3-4 month closed season/pre season for all. Each week during the Intercounty season, a maximum of 24 county players are held back from club football.
There are 2 seperate club competitions 1. League which goes ahead regardless of county football 2. Championship when clubs have their full complement .

[oileain blues]

Simple solution, scrap play off sysrem, serves no purpose except to cause problems at the end of the season.
Similarly the rules governing the postponement and refixing of games needs over hauled, at the moment a rule exists that states games have to be refixed within 10 days, this rule should carry a forfeiture of points , is this rule enforced, no it's not.
So yet again the end of the season is a farce.
Seriously the whole system as it stands isn't working , quite the opposite, last year and this year Loughinisland are disadvantaged, Kilcoo are similarly treated this year, it's a shame that we as a county seem to go out of our way to make things difficult, this subject of play offs , starred games etc must be on the agenda at the county convention.

[thewobbler]

Simple solution, scrap play off sysrem, serves no purpose except to cause problems at the end of the season.
Similarly the rules governing the postponement and refixing of games needs over hauled, at the moment a rule exists that states games have to be refixed within 10 days, this rule should carry a forfeiture of points , is this rule enforced, no it's not.
So yet again the end of the season is a farce.
Seriously the whole system as it stands isn't working , quite the opposite, last year and this year Loughinisland are disadvantaged, Kilcoo are similarly treated this year, it's a shame that we as a county seem to go out of our way to make things difficult, this subject of play offs , starred games etc must be on the agenda at the county convention.

I'm not going to get into it in any depth here, but hopefully you won't need it explained in big letters either. In short, the only reason why we have aleague system that largely works well over the summer  is because of the starred games system, and the only reason the starred system works is because the end of season playoffs provide a get out of jail card for clubs that produce County players.

[supersub]

Simple solution, scrap play off sysrem, serves no purpose except to cause problems at the end of the season.
Similarly the rules governing the postponement and refixing of games needs over hauled, at the moment a rule exists that states games have to be refixed within 10 days, this rule should carry a forfeiture of points , is this rule enforced, no it's not.
So yet again the end of the season is a farce.
Seriously the whole system as it stands isn't working , quite the opposite, last year and this year Loughinisland are disadvantaged, Kilcoo are similarly treated this year, it's a shame that we as a county seem to go out of our way to make things difficult, this subject of play offs , starred games etc must be on the agenda at the county convention.

Incorrect, games can be played on any date as long as both teams agree.

[RadioGAAGAA]

Did Kilcoo not have an U21 game on the same night?

Yep.


Ye'd really wonder what goes through the heads of those in charge of fixtures at times. How did they ever think it was a good idea to fix the game for that Thurs? 

[Mourne man]

The under 21 competition! Is reaching the business end now quarter finals fixed for next weekend! Any idea when the draw will be made? Any predictions as to who will win?

I have noticed that the management have been in attendance at a number of matches!

[oileain blues]

The starred games initiative came about in the late 80s and early 90s when we had a successful county team , we don't need a starred game system which only leads to the end of season farce we have now.
The rules governing the re fixing of games are so vague that they are constantly broken which leads to the fixture pile up at the end of the season.
It's up to the c c c to enforce rule 7g , however they seldom do this,unless  you come from East Down, then it's applied and this leads to the situation Loughinisland and Kilcoo face and have faced this year and previous years.
Start the season the same time as the all county premie reserve leagues start , that's usually 3-4 weeks before leagues 1 and 2 start, do this and make sure any postponed matches are played within ten days of the original date and the year end fixture pile up won't happen
How do the likes of Tyrone handle their league fixture programme , I don't think they have a starred match system and their county team seems to be doing ok .

[6th sam]

The starred games initiative came about in the late 80s and early 90s when we had a successful county team , we don't need a starred game system which only leads to the end of season farce we have now.
The rules governing the re fixing of games are so vague that they are constantly broken which leads to the fixture pile up at the end of the season.
It's up to the c c c to enforce rule 7g , however they seldom do this,unless  you come from East Down, then it's applied and this leads to the situation Loughinisland and Kilcoo face and have faced this year and previous years.
Start the season the same time as the all county premie reserve leagues start , that's usually 3-4 weeks before leagues 1 and 2 start, do this and make sure any postponed matches are played within ten days of the original date and the year end fixture pile up won't happen
How do the likes of Tyrone handle their league fixture programme , I don't think they have a starred match system and their county team seems to be doing ok .

Apparently Tyrone Gaels aren't happy with their club system either. The starred system is far from perfect but it is better than most other counties.
The problem lies with the fact that league & championship status are linked. Therefore , understandably clubs feel they can't afford to lose any games, and don't want to play without county players, and otherwise postpone games until they feel best equipped to play them.
The county game and county players also suffer, as they are being asked to play 4 games in 10 days in the lead up to the Intercounty Ulster championship
I am convinced that the establishment of the CPA will lead to a nationally imposed system which seeks to provide an attractive program of games for all players. At the same time , the status of clubs shouldn't be affected by having county players. An extended club Marquee competition ( league/Roundrobin leading to knockout championship final stages) should be protected with no interference of county fixtures . But on all other weeks during the club season should be occupied by a league system which must go ahead without county players if necessary , though they will return to play for their clubs when individually released, or collectively released when county involvement finishes. Clubs with county players can't have their championship status effected by league status

[thewobbler]

The starred games initiative came about in the late 80s and early 90s when we had a successful county team , we don't need a starred game system which only leads to the end of season farce we have now.
The rules governing the re fixing of games are so vague that they are constantly broken which leads to the fixture pile up at the end of the season.
It's up to the c c c to enforce rule 7g , however they seldom do this,unless  you come from East Down, then it's applied and this leads to the situation Loughinisland and Kilcoo face and have faced this year and previous years.
Start the season the same time as the all county premie reserve leagues start , that's usually 3-4 weeks before leagues 1 and 2 start, do this and make sure any postponed matches are played within ten days of the original date and the year end fixture pile up won't happen
How do the likes of Tyrone handle their league fixture programme , I don't think they have a starred match system and their county team seems to be doing ok .

Don't need a starred system? I'd be fairly confident of Down beating Armagh at home. Should that happen, even if we get beaten in an Ulster Semi, the qualifiers will take til July, maybe mid July for an exit.

Do you reckon we should just cancel league football for that 6 week period instead? Or should we just wait and hope for the best (which, means hoping for the worst for our county team)?

Re starting the leagues four weeks earlier... every year this is brought up by a few people, and the same people go mysteriously quiet when it pisses down in March and early April and half the pitches in the county are unplayable. I will repeat til the day I'm done that the single biggest reason for fixture problems is postponements and full rounds of league football in march will guarantee postponements.

Regarding Tyrone, they play roughly half their league matches every year without County players, yet they've ran into the exact same problem as Down in 2016, where a handful of clubs had to wait 6-8 weeks to finish their league programmes, due to club championships taking precedence.

By the way, like everyone in the county, I'm all ears if you have genuine, well thought out solutions for the scheduling problems. But what you wrote above is just typical of the lazy buck passing that happens every year at this time.

Clubs being unwilling to fulfil fixtures when we have long summer evenings - doing anything they can to make sure that wee Tommy is back is back from America, or big Paul has a few more days to get over his injury - is actually the crux of the problem. It is one that is fed by paid managers doing anything they can to ensure a win and therefore prove their worth, but the underlying problem is that there is a culture in our games where clubs will do what they can to get out of playing unless all conditions are in their favour. Most recently evidenced in our league final.

[whitegoodman]

Start the league in the first week of March, regular games end by mid August with top 2 and 2nd and 3rd from bottom (bottom team goes straight down) meeting the following week to decide who wins the league and who is the second team to go down.

Start the championship in first week of September over a 6 week period finishing in Mid October.  Unless we are in the preliminary round of Ulster then this should provide a weeks rest to the winners before going into ulster.

Including preseason which is likely to start in the first week of January then all players should a period of at least 8 1/2 months of football and 3 1/2 months off season.  And that would just be for the players that are knocked out of the first round of the back door system and do not have under 21 or college football during the winter months.

If this gets too tight reduce the leagues to 10 teams which increase competitiveness and reduces fixture congestion.

[outinfront]

I'm not sure of all the details of fixture setting but I have always found it strange that reserve league starts basically a month before the senior leagues. Why is this? Is it to do with County football?

[6th sam]

I'm not sure of all the details of fixture setting but I have always found it strange that reserve league starts basically a month before the senior leagues. Why is this? I still it to do with County football?

Yes, clubs with county players do not want to start the league earlier as it would involve missing county men.
Some people dismiss this, but in reality why would Longstone,  for example , want to play a further 4 further vital league games without county men. I would agree with wobbler re pitch availability in March , as it's a bad start to the season to have pitches torn up, as well as high risks of postponements. I think we are yet to get a perfect system but a number of tweaks over the years have improved things. Finishing the Intercounty season earlier is an absolute must , allowing sept/oct/Nov for club championship. However I feel it's essential that all but the final rounds must involve all teams, so that all clubs get several games with their county men. The league finals/playoffs must be finished before the championship starts. Our current championship structure is ingenious Imho , and a minor tweak to simultaneously run off a shield competition, and championship relegation playoffs , ensures that all clubs are involved until quarter final stage at least, with every game being meaningful . The key thing is that we have to change the mindset of some that football can't be played in October/November . Arguably a system to distribute gate receipts pro-rata on the basis of championship grading would further incentivise competitiveness for every championship game

[downup]

Paddy O Rourke and Steven Mc Donell in the Burren hotseat. Mayobridge and Warrenpoints managements already mentioned on here, has there been any other appointments as there seemed to be a lot of clubs looking new managers?

[umpire]

The under 21 competition! Is reaching the business end now quarter finals fixed for next weekend! Any idea when the draw will be made? Any predictions as to who will win?

I have noticed that the management have been in attendance at a number of matches!

g

Warrenpoint v Burren
Clonduff v Downpatrick
Longstone v Mayobridge
Kilcoo v Carryduff