Down Club Hurling & Football

[angermanagement]

I'm not sure about this one folks.

EPL teams will always fulfil league fixtures, important or not, the weekend before they play a Champions League final. Pro 12 teams will fulfil their fixtures even if they've a European final.

So why should the GAA be different?

Prioritising competitions is as old as sport itself. Refusing to fulfil fixtures is completely against the spirit of sport.

Kilcoo may attempt to blame the County Board all they want here, but instead of looking wistfully at the previous, horrific instances where their opponents would wait 8 weeks to play their final league game, they should look at why they think they've a right to do this, when it doesn't happen in any other sport. GAA isn't that unique or tough ffs.

As for finishing up all leagues by early August just in case this situation happens again, that's a classic examples of the the many sacrificing everything for the few.

Exactly, not blaming Kilcoo the County Board has set the precedent in years gone by.  Dundalk FC played 10 matches in 30 days then a trip to Russia a week later followed by a cup final 72 hours later. Some of these players are amateurs as well.

Is the price of success not having to play more matches. Kilcoo would have a bigger squad of players than Dundalk to pick from.

[wobbller]

Wobbler, youd be happy for Ballyholland to be in such a predicament?
Say they had to play an Intermediate semi-final in Ulster next weekend and had a fair chance at making the final, would you think it grand to be playing your Div2 league final last night?

Ye wouldn't be able to buy a paper in Newry for a whole winter if this was the case.

I see you've imagined Ballyholland in an Ulster Intermediate Final. Have they now dropped down from Senior?

[thewobbler]

Wobbler, youd be happy for Ballyholland to be in such a predicament?
Say they had to play an Intermediate semi-final in Ulster next weekend and had a fair chance at making the final, would you think it grand to be playing your Div2 league final last night?

Ye wouldn't be able to buy a paper in Newry for a whole winter if this was the case.

Brick, being genuinely honest, if we were in an Ulster championship semi final then a league final wouldn't matter a damn to me. But I'd expect the club to fulfil the fixture and I'd expect the senior panellists to use it both to impress and to work on match fitness on winter surfaces.

Again, if every other sport in the world see teams prioritise without throwing their toys out of the pram, then why not GAA?

[Brick Tamlin]

But you're comparing professional sports teams with amateur GAA players at club level.
The stakes are higher, huge sums of money involved etc. Hard to compare what it would mean to a bunch of students, brickies and joiners to win 'big' for their club on a provincial/national level with that of professional sportsmen. Plus it means so much more to the club as a whole. If Ballyholland won an Ulster and went further you can guarantee it would give the wider club a shot in the arm that wouldn't be comparable in Pro Rugby or soccer.

[thewobbler]

But you're comparing professional sports teams with amateur GAA players at club level.
The stakes are higher, huge sums of money involved etc. Hard to compare what it would mean to a bunch of students, brickies and joiners to win 'big' for their club on a provincial/national level with that of professional sportsmen. Plus it means so much more to the club as a whole. If Ballyholland won an Ulster and went further you can guarantee it would give the wider club a shot in the arm that wouldn't be comparable in Pro Rugby or soccer.

Well as someone else above pointed out, look at Dundalk's schedule over the past 2 months.

Actually look at the schedule that Slaughtneil'a dual players have faced the past few months.

Let's not kid ourselves that there's something so utterly unique and wonderful about club GAA that somehow the best squad in our county isn't fit to cope with 3 important games in 3 weeks.

It's a cop out and is a further example of the heightened bullshit that runs through our games these days where every team does what they can make sure football is played on their terms only, and then blame administrators who cannot fulfil the impossible.

Read back on some of the rubbish above. It's actually scandalous that anonymous keyboard warriors feel they can empty two barrels upon administrators. Our clubs will do anything they can to ruin their weeks and these people deserve more respect.

[thebar]

But you're comparing professional sports teams with amateur GAA players at club level.
The stakes are higher, huge sums of money involved etc. Hard to compare what it would mean to a bunch of students, brickies and joiners to win 'big' for their club on a provincial/national level with that of professional sportsmen. Plus it means so much more to the club as a whole. If Ballyholland won an Ulster and went further you can guarantee it would give the wider club a shot in the arm that wouldn't be comparable in Pro Rugby or soccer.

Well as someone else above pointed out, look at Dundalk's schedule over the past 2 months.

Actually look at the schedule that Slaughtneil'a dual players have faced the past few months.

Let's not kid ourselves that there's something so utterly unique and wonderful about club GAA that somehow the best squad in our county isn't fit to cope with 3 important games in 3 weeks.

It's a cop out and is a further example of the heightened bullshit that runs through our games these days where every team does what they can make sure football is played on their terms only, and then blame administrators who cannot fulfil the impossible.

Read back on some of the rubbish above. It's actually scandalous that anonymous keyboard warriors feel they can empty two barrels upon administrators. Our clubs will do anything they can to ruin their weeks and these people deserve more respect.

You know wobbler have to agree with all of the above. I have split view on this - if it had been decided on the Monday of this week that the final was to be played on the Thursday giving both Castlewellan & Kilcoo little or no time to prepare properly (irrespective of training both teams would be doing anyway) then the County Board I believe would have been in the wrong & both clubs could feel rightly annoyed. If on the other hand if it was known from last week (what appears to be the case) the match should have went ahead with ample time between this and the Ulster Championship Match Kilcoo would play Sunday week. Lots of differing views but for me the chance to get another competitive match, try a few different players & tactics etc. would only have been a good thing for Kilcoo.   

[6th sam]

Wobbler, youd be happy for Ballyholland to be in such a predicament?
Say they had to play an Intermediate semi-final in Ulster next weekend and had a fair chance at making the final, would you think it grand to be playing your Div2 league final last night?

Ye wouldn't be able to buy a paper in Newry for a whole winter if this was the case.

Brick, being genuinely honest, if we were in an Ulster championship semi final then a league final wouldn't matter a damn to me. But I'd expect the club to fulfil the fixture and I'd expect the senior panellists to use it both to impress and to work on match fitness on winter surfaces.

Again, if every other sport in the world see teams prioritise without throwing their toys out of the pram, then why not GAA?

Some understandable opinions there wobbler but
Why not the GAA , u ask?

And the answer is in your question!
It is not comparable to rugby, soccer which are isolated games, it is The Gaelic Athletic Association, which is an organisation involving several sports and activities, organised around a sense of place and with an identity, and ethos ingrained in its official guide. I genuinely enjoy and respect several other sports, but the GAA is about more than just comparing one sport ( Gaelic football) with another (rugby) . Several very capable GAA players, and members have absolutely no interest in that ethos and those rules , but the rules are  there, and though they have weaknesses they are a significant  reason why GAA is so strong throughout Ireland and beyond.
We can risk diluting or undermining that ethos for expediency but we should be careful what we wish for. I think gaelic football is a brilliant sport in its own right , but most non-GAA people don't think that , unfortunately ( cf Sky viewing figures) . Without the glamour, money , worldwide appeal and wall-to-wall publicity of its main rival, soccer, I fear Gaelic football in isolation would struggle. However as part of a vibrant Irish cultural organisation , with tribal rivalry thrown in for good measure, it punches well above its weight as a sport in Ireland and among the Diaspora.
So by simply comparing the ACFL title for Kilcoo to the Pro 12 for Glasgow Warriors franchise , is like comparing apples and oranges, in my opinion.

Given that league playoffs and ulster club clashes has been a recurrent bone of contention , CCCC needs to look at an alternative system going forward. I can appreciate both sides of the argument, but to expect Kilcoo to risk injury in a competitive Derby , just over a week before their crack at getting to an Ulster final , is probably unrealistic. Hopefully there'll be a satisfactory resolution for all parties involved.
Absolutely agree regarding abuse of administrators, constructive criticism certainly, but personalised abuse of those who work hard to give us 1000s  of games every year is unacceptable

[johnneycool]

Wobbler, youd be happy for Ballyholland to be in such a predicament?
Say they had to play an Intermediate semi-final in Ulster next weekend and had a fair chance at making the final, would you think it grand to be playing your Div2 league final last night?

Ye wouldn't be able to buy a paper in Newry for a whole winter if this was the case.

Brick, being genuinely honest, if we were in an Ulster championship semi final then a league final wouldn't matter a damn to me. But I'd expect the club to fulfil the fixture and I'd expect the senior panellists to use it both to impress and to work on match fitness on winter surfaces.

Again, if every other sport in the world see teams prioritise without throwing their toys out of the pram, then why not GAA?

Some understandable opinions there wobbler but
Why not the GAA , u ask?

And the answer is in your question!
It is not comparable to rugby, soccer which are isolated games, it is The Gaelic Athletic Association, which is an organisation involving several sports and activities, organised around a sense of place and with an identity, and ethos ingrained in its official guide. I genuinely enjoy and respect several other sports, but the GAA is about more than just comparing one sport ( Gaelic football) with another (rugby) . Several very capable GAA players, and members have absolutely no interest in that ethos and those rules , but the rules are  there, and though they have weaknesses they are a significant  reason why GAA is so strong throughout Ireland and beyond.
We can risk diluting or undermining that ethos for expediency but we should be careful what we wish for. I think gaelic football is a brilliant sport in its own right , but most non-GAA people don't think that , unfortunately ( cf Sky viewing figures) . Without the glamour, money , worldwide appeal and wall-to-wall publicity of its main rival, soccer, I fear Gaelic football in isolation would struggle. However as part of a vibrant Irish cultural organisation , with tribal rivalry thrown in for good measure, it punches well above its weight as a sport in Ireland and among the Diaspora.
So by simply comparing the ACFL title for Kilcoo to the Pro 12 for Glasgow Warriors franchise , is like comparing apples and oranges, in my opinion.

Given that league playoffs and ulster club clashes has been a recurrent none of contention , CCCC needs to look at an alternative system going forward. I can appreciate both sides of the argument, but to expect Kilcoo to risk injury in a competitive Derby , just over a week before their crack at getting to an Ulster final , is probably unrealistic. Hopefully there'll be a satisfactory resolution for all parties involved.

Did Kilcoo not have an U21 game on the same night?

Irrespective of the Ulster club championship, you surely couldn't ask a club to field in an U21 game and senior in the same night, there's bound to be overlaps on both panels, surely?

[thebar]

Wobbler, youd be happy for Ballyholland to be in such a predicament?
Say they had to play an Intermediate semi-final in Ulster next weekend and had a fair chance at making the final, would you think it grand to be playing your Div2 league final last night?

Ye wouldn't be able to buy a paper in Newry for a whole winter if this was the case.

Brick, being genuinely honest, if we were in an Ulster championship semi final then a league final wouldn't matter a damn to me. But I'd expect the club to fulfil the fixture and I'd expect the senior panellists to use it both to impress and to work on match fitness on winter surfaces.

Again, if every other sport in the world see teams prioritise without throwing their toys out of the pram, then why not GAA?

Some understandable opinions there wobbler but
Why not the GAA , u ask?

And the answer is in your question!
It is not comparable to rugby, soccer which are isolated games, it is The Gaelic Athletic Association, which is an organisation involving several sports and activities, organised around a sense of place and with an identity, and ethos ingrained in its official guide. I genuinely enjoy and respect several other sports, but the GAA is about more than just comparing one sport ( Gaelic football) with another (rugby) . Several very capable GAA players, and members have absolutely no interest in that ethos and those rules , but the rules are  there, and though they have weaknesses they are a significant  reason why GAA is so strong throughout Ireland and beyond.
We can risk diluting or undermining that ethos for expediency but we should be careful what we wish for. I think gaelic football is a brilliant sport in its own right , but most non-GAA people don't think that , unfortunately ( cf Sky viewing figures) . Without the glamour, money , worldwide appeal and wall-to-wall publicity of its main rival, soccer, I fear Gaelic football in isolation would struggle. However as part of a vibrant Irish cultural organisation , with tribal rivalry thrown in for good measure, it punches well above its weight as a sport in Ireland and among the Diaspora.
So by simply comparing the ACFL title for Kilcoo to the Pro 12 for Glasgow Warriors franchise , is like comparing apples and oranges, in my opinion.

Given that league playoffs and ulster club clashes has been a recurrent none of contention , CCCC needs to look at an alternative system going forward. I can appreciate both sides of the argument, but to expect Kilcoo to risk injury in a competitive Derby , just over a week before their crack at getting to an Ulster final , is probably unrealistic. Hopefully there'll be a satisfactory resolution for all parties involved.

Did Kilcoo not have an U21 game on the same night?

Irrespective of the Ulster club championship, you surely couldn't ask a club to field in an U21 game and senior in the same night, there's bound to be overlaps on both panels, surely?

Your right on this having both fixtures scheduled on the same night was crazy.

[downup]

This has got the tongues wagging alright. IMO I understand Kilcoo's position although I do recall notification being given to the clubs at the start of the year regarding the leagues and that they had to be finished irrespective of Ulster commitments but in hindsight this was probably not going to happen. I believe that we need to come up with a schedule which ensures the league final (if we even need a final) is played before the championship final is played. The leagues start earlier next year so that should give some more time to get the games slotted in.

[Leonardo]

I agree with Johnny - whoever finishes top wins the league. It's a farce to expect teams to continue playing at this time of year. We see it happen any year a team progresses in Ulster.
I feel sorry for both teams. Asking castlewellan to train without a definite final date and for Kilcoo to risk injuries before a massive game

[whitegoodman]

Anyone who thinks this isn't the administrators fault needs to take a look at themselves.

- Like others have said the team that finishes top of the league should win the league and this would avoid all of this nonsense.

- Comparing the down gaa club calendar to other professional sports is also a nonsense.  Even for Dundalk there is a lot of money at stake and their players get hundreds if not thousands of pounds to perform when they are told to perform.

- The pinnacle of the down club season is the senior championship final and this should be the last game in the club season not a league game on a Thursday night in November in front of a couple of hundred people.  There is no reason why the calendar couldn't be centred around getting the league finished up before the championship starts.  Armagh can do it so why cant we.

- Our club record in Ulster over the last 30 years is diabolical so we should be offering Kilcoo all the help we can not hindering their preparation.  Who knows it might actually help the county team in the long run if they could get over the line in Ulster.

- Having the club calendar finalised by early October bar the teams in Ulster allows the club players to have  a meaningful off season and younger lads can concentrate on one team in the winter be it the club under 21s (which is another farce) or college football.  People wonder what we can do for player burnout and some of the issues are staring us right in the face.

[SHEEDY]

Anyone who thinks this isn't the administrators fault needs to take a look at themselves.

- Like others have said the team that finishes top of the league should win the league and this would avoid all of this nonsense.

- Comparing the down gaa club calendar to other professional sports is also a nonsense.  Even for Dundalk there is a lot of money at stake and their players get hundreds if not thousands of pounds to perform when they are told to perform.

- The pinnacle of the down club season is the senior championship final and this should be the last game in the club season not a league game on a Thursday night in November in front of a couple of hundred people.  There is no reason why the calendar couldn't be centred around getting the league finished up before the championship starts.  Armagh can do it so why cant we.

- Our club record in Ulster over the last 30 years is diabolical so we should be offering Kilcoo all the help we can not hindering their preparation.  Who knows it might actually help the county team in the long run if they could get over the line in Ulster.

- Having the club calendar finalised by early October bar the teams in Ulster allows the club players to have  a meaningful off season and younger lads can concentrate on one team in the winter be it the club under 21s (which is another farce) or college football.  People wonder what we can do for player burnout and some of the issues are staring us right in the face.

great post. Totally agree. The league final (if there's any need for one) should be at start of august, 2 week break then run the championship over the next 5/6 weeks. Championship finals being the end and the pinnacle of the calendar.

[Maurice Moss]

Anyone who thinks this isn't the administrators fault needs to take a look at themselves.

- Like others have said the team that finishes top of the league should win the league and this would avoid all of this nonsense.

- Comparing the down gaa club calendar to other professional sports is also a nonsense.  Even for Dundalk there is a lot of money at stake and their players get hundreds if not thousands of pounds to perform when they are told to perform.

- The pinnacle of the down club season is the senior championship final and this should be the last game in the club season not a league game on a Thursday night in November in front of a couple of hundred people.  There is no reason why the calendar couldn't be centred around getting the league finished up before the championship starts.  Armagh can do it so why cant we.

- Our club record in Ulster over the last 30 years is diabolical so we should be offering Kilcoo all the help we can not hindering their preparation.  Who knows it might actually help the county team in the long run if they could get over the line in Ulster.

- Having the club calendar finalised by early October bar the teams in Ulster allows the club players to have  a meaningful off season and younger lads can concentrate on one team in the winter be it the club under 21s (which is another farce) or college football.  People wonder what we can do for player burnout and some of the issues are staring us right in the face.

great post. Totally agree. The league final (if there's any need for one) should be at start of august, 2 week break then run the championship over the next 5/6 weeks. Championship finals being the end and the pinnacle of the calendar.

+1

[johnneycool]

Anyone who thinks this isn't the administrators fault needs to take a look at themselves.

- Like others have said the team that finishes top of the league should win the league and this would avoid all of this nonsense.

- Comparing the down gaa club calendar to other professional sports is also a nonsense.  Even for Dundalk there is a lot of money at stake and their players get hundreds if not thousands of pounds to perform when they are told to perform.

- The pinnacle of the down club season is the senior championship final and this should be the last game in the club season not a league game on a Thursday night in November in front of a couple of hundred people.  There is no reason why the calendar couldn't be centred around getting the league finished up before the championship starts.  Armagh can do it so why cant we.

- Our club record in Ulster over the last 30 years is diabolical so we should be offering Kilcoo all the help we can not hindering their preparation.  Who knows it might actually help the county team in the long run if they could get over the line in Ulster.

- Having the club calendar finalised by early October bar the teams in Ulster allows the club players to have  a meaningful off season and younger lads can concentrate on one team in the winter be it the club under 21s (which is another farce) or college football.  People wonder what we can do for player burnout and some of the issues are staring us right in the face.

great post. Totally agree. The league final (if there's any need for one) should be at start of august, 2 week break then run the championship over the next 5/6 weeks. Championship finals being the end and the pinnacle of the calendar.

I presume the playoff aspect of the league is to compensate clubs adversely affected by the starred games and if it wasn't there the county players would be pulled from pillar to post.