Down Club Hurling & Football

[ardtole]

A lot of the problems we encounter are similar to a lot of counties throughout the country. Meath, Derry, Armagh, Kildare, Galway, Cork, Offaly and plenty others are experiencing similar challenges to us. Ive said it before but when Pat OHare passed away some years ago, his loss was huge to football in down. He had a vision and a passion  and the organisational skills to set in place structures to benefit the next generation coming through.

[The Trap]

I am not from Down but I have seen a number of Down clubs playing over the last few years in Ulster Club competitions and they have been pretty good e.g. Kilcoo, Warrenpoint, Loughinisland......Kilcoo and Burren would surely be in top dozen club teams in the province.
However once this slide at county level starts I think it is going to be VERY difficult to stop particularly when the under 21 team took such a beating as well. Maybe going in to Division 2 will help as I am sure Down will be able to compete among those teams. Also playing a very good Division One team away in the first round of the championship was not a good draw.
For the next few years Down (and prob Armagh and Derry) are Division 2/3 teams and I feel the others (Dubs, Kerry, Mayo etc) will have to come back to the pack as I don't see the pack getting up to that level any time soon.

[thebar]

Supporters inevitably will have knee jerk reactions to heavy defeats, But reality will show we have had several disappointing days over the years, and much as it pains me to say it,  we maybe have a slightly deluded view of where we stand as a county.
It's just over 50 years ago when we won our first ulster title, but within 13 years we had annexed 8 ulster titles, in an incredibly rich vein of form, probably on the basis of real quality players and innovative organisational structures. Sadly in the subsequent 20 years we only won 2 ulster titles , and in the 25 years since 1991 we have won only other Ulster title (1994) . We have only won probably 5 minor titles and 5 u21 titles in the past 50 years.
In short , our stats would indicate that apart from our domination over a decade in the sixties, we have been relatively unsuccessful through our GAA history.
Our high expectations don't help us , as at all levels, managements are put under tremendous pressure by supporters etc to achieve, with calls for their heads if deemed to be unsuccessful.
Similarly our self-styled aristocratic aura, while undoubtedly attractive when we have success,  causes us problems , as some players have thought that making a Down squad or pulling on a red & black jersey is an end in itself, as opposed to winning silverware in that jersey .
There needs to be a realisation by all with Down's football success at heart, that our 60s success was as a result of innovation around the components of success eg getting several quality players in the jersey and preparing them for success...this didn't happen overnight.
Rather than being critical , every year, of players, managers and officials  who put their neck on the line, we should be realistic about our resources, and develop structures to deliver sustainable success. This includes ensuring that all current teams are punching above their weight, developing future county players and making it attractive to be a Down player.
There are several other vital factors outside the running of county teams, to achieve that:
1.A vibrant club scene dovetailing with the county scene,
2. a sustainable financial model to compete with the top counties, providing us with the facilities and resources necessary for success,
3. driving change centrally in the GAA to minimise club/county conflict and the disparity/inequality in the current provincial/allireland Intercounty fixtures , at all levels.
Eg how can we compete with Kerry who dust themselves off every July for their annual Cork clash( in Killarney every second year!) while Down have been travelling to play usually Div 1 opposition in May/June for the past ~20 years!!..rant over, An Dún Abú!

     Decided to post again in calm rather than knee-jerk.We did look Ok in the first half but in the 2nd half we capitulated.By saying we looked ok in the first half the Monaghan ones beside me were disgusted with their first half showing so the first half from a Down perspective was probably more Down playing average and Monaghan well below their average.

    Where do we go from here?

Our County Board needs re-formed in a way that reflects the needs of each Club but at the same realizing that it is these Clubs who make up our County administration.So having someone from each Club who understands that is a necessity.From what I hear and know the calibre of people attending from a lot of our Clubs are "past it or over the hill".
It is these people who control the County and the situation that exists in Down and a lot of Counties is akin to the recent Irish Farmers Union elections.

  So now if each of our posters can reflect on who there Club Delegate is and keep it in mind for the next few sentences.....

   Can you imagine any small farmer from Ballygo backwards or other parts of rural Ireland being in charge of that body? No chance but what you have is a body made up with savvy administrators voted for by the like minded farmers from ballygobackwards who themselves really understand that they aren't capable of being in charge. Take a photo shoot of our delegates and I imagine it'd be  like a School re-union photo from the 50's or 60's.

If this can be achieved we then get what some posters are suggesting capable people onto positions where they can effect change in how our whole County is run.

6th Sams habitual rants about where we should be are like the "saved folk" who occasionally knock on the doors spouting their religious ideas. Bullsh-t!

You've hit the nail on the head at least as far as our Club is. Long since retired from work but still attending county Board and if this is replicated in say only half of our clubs it is indeed
a talking shop for retired ones when the reality should be young up to speed people in the modern world.

Totally agree

[6th sam]

A lot of the problems we encounter are similar to a lot of counties throughout the country. Meath, Derry, Armagh, Kildare, Galway, Cork, Offaly and plenty others are experiencing similar challenges to us. Ive said it before but when Pat OHare passed away some years ago, his loss was huge to football in down. He had a vision and a passion  and the organisational skills to set in place structures to benefit the next generation coming through.

Couldn't agree more.
Our 90s successes were strongly influened by Pat's player development , and in 1994 his coaching. Also players from families involved in the 60s successes ,eg Mccartans , Blaneys , Kane, Carr etc had the belief and workrate required for success. Allied to other factors such as the strength of Club football at that time eg Burren, Loughinisland , RGU etc,  we had a lot of ingredients contributing to success.

The GAA is under pressure in several counties as highlighted above, and the GAA centrally appears to be sleepwalking into a crisis. Most recent rule changes have hit rural clubs hardest, and these clubs are our lifeblood.
As discussed above, the top heavy , over democratic decision making process in the GAA, has not served us well as even the best ideas struggle to get through.
The reality is however that if we can be innovative and organised around developing players and structures, we can reach the top table again . Unfortunately this takes time

[johnneycool]

A lot of the problems we encounter are similar to a lot of counties throughout the country. Meath, Derry, Armagh, Kildare, Galway, Cork, Offaly and plenty others are experiencing similar challenges to us. Ive said it before but when Pat OHare passed away some years ago, his loss was huge to football in down. He had a vision and a passion  and the organisational skills to set in place structures to benefit the next generation coming through.

Couldn't agree more.
Our 90s successes were strongly influened by Pat's player development , and in 1994 his coaching. Also players from families involved in the 60s successes ,eg Mccartans , Blaneys , Kane, Carr etc had the belief and workrate required for success. Allied to other factors such as the strength of Club football at that time eg Burren, Loughinisland , RGU etc,  we had a lot of ingredients contributing to success.

The GAA is under pressure in several counties as highlighted above, and the GAA centrally appears to be sleepwalking into a crisis. Most recent rule changes have hit rural clubs hardest, and these clubs are our lifeblood.
As discussed above, the top heavy , over democratic decision making process in the GAA, has not served us well as even the best ideas struggle to get through.
The reality is however that if we can be innovative and organised around developing players and structures, we can reach the top table again . Unfortunately this takes time

Agreed 6th but who is going to start this off? Is your delegate to the County Board innovative and organised about developing Coaching?I know our one isn't.

Neither is ours, but IMO that type of debate has to happen within the coaching community, not County Board officers or delegates who's skillsets (I'm being kind here) are different but of value in other ways to the association.

[speculative]

It honestly astounds me how some people on here can defend our County Board.

Our 3 Championship appearance at the major grades in 2016 have yielded only humiliation, particularly @ U21 and Senior. We haven't won an Ulster Title at any grade since 2009. We haven't won a Senior Title in 23 years, we haven't won a minor title in 18. The problem is systematic. The utter lack of infrastructure within Down is nothing short of a depressing!

Senior members of the Down County Board should resign, with an emergency meeting held to bring in some new forward thinking minds (those with actual minds would be a step forward). Unless we want another 20 years of complete and utter garbage!!

[SamFever]

It honestly astounds me how some people on here can defend our County Board.

Our 3 Championship appearance at the major grades in 2016 have yielded only humiliation, particularly @ U21 and Senior. We haven't won an Ulster Title at any grade since 2009. We haven't won a Senior Title in 23 years, we haven't won a minor title in 18. The problem is systematic. The utter lack of infrastructure within Down is nothing short of a depressing!

Senior members of the Down County Board should resign, with an emergency meeting held to bring in some new forward thinking minds (those with actual minds would be a step forward). Unless we want another 20 years of complete and utter garbage!!

So 2005 didn't happen for our victorious Minor Footballers.

[johnneycool]

A lot of the problems we encounter are similar to a lot of counties throughout the country. Meath, Derry, Armagh, Kildare, Galway, Cork, Offaly and plenty others are experiencing similar challenges to us. Ive said it before but when Pat OHare passed away some years ago, his loss was huge to football in down. He had a vision and a passion  and the organisational skills to set in place structures to benefit the next generation coming through.

Couldn't agree more.
Our 90s successes were strongly influened by Pat's player development , and in 1994 his coaching. Also players from families involved in the 60s successes ,eg Mccartans , Blaneys , Kane, Carr etc had the belief and workrate required for success. Allied to other factors such as the strength of Club football at that time eg Burren, Loughinisland , RGU etc,  we had a lot of ingredients contributing to success.

The GAA is under pressure in several counties as highlighted above, and the GAA centrally appears to be sleepwalking into a crisis. Most recent rule changes have hit rural clubs hardest, and these clubs are our lifeblood.
As discussed above, the top heavy , over democratic decision making process in the GAA, has not served us well as even the best ideas struggle to get through.
The reality is however that if we can be innovative and organised around developing players and structures, we can reach the top table again . Unfortunately this takes time

Agreed 6th but who is going to start this off? Is your delegate to the County Board innovative and organised about developing Coaching?I know our one isn't.

Neither is ours, but IMO that type of debate has to happen within the coaching community, not County Board officers or delegates who's skillsets (I'm being kind here) are different but of value in other ways to the association.

the coaching community in hurling consists of a few lunatic parents and is all ok-ed from above simply because there is no one else.Have a look at who is in charge right through from U14 to minor.

You're not entirely wrong, but like club delegates, do you think the best coaches head off to work in development squads or stay with the clubs?

[speculative]

It honestly astounds me how some people on here can defend our County Board.

Our 3 Championship appearance at the major grades in 2016 have yielded only humiliation, particularly @ U21 and Senior. We haven't won an Ulster Title at any grade since 2009. We haven't won a Senior Title in 23 years, we haven't won a minor title in 18. The problem is systematic. The utter lack of infrastructure within Down is nothing short of a depressing!

Senior members of the Down County Board should resign, with an emergency meeting held to bring in some new forward thinking minds (those with actual minds would be a step forward). Unless we want another 20 years of complete and utter garbage!!

So 2005 didn't happen for our victorious Minor Footballers.

Did they win an Ulster Title though??

[Lecale Gael]

first half Down edged it and due to the ref giving soft frees/poor Down tackling while at other end wayward shooting meant Monaghan went in ahead at the interval by 3 points.

it was 10- 7 when Turley was black carded, then the wheels came off and the wind picked up monaghan got on top and Down heads dropped.

it is quite obvious several players that would improve squad will not commit and the management need to approach these players and find out why and try accommodate them if they indicate a willingness to return.

benny coulter is better than henry brown
martin Clarke is better than barry ohagan
caolon mooney is better than connaire Harrison
dan gordan and peter Fitzpatrick would boss that midfield with peter turley and mckernan is a half back not a midfielder.

if players cant or wont commit then the county management should just make it public and work with what they have and the rest of us should just accept where we are and try help where we can to re-build.

more work is being done at underage level than ever before but I feel part of the problem is that potential underage players slip the net because not assessed in their own club matches but at trials in a short space of time at the wrong time of the season when other sports are at advanced stage of their competitions.

there are many things needing put right but on here is the last place the powers that be will look

we don't have the players from minors upwards to improve on where we are at the minute in Down.

[Mike Tyson]

It honestly astounds me how some people on here can defend our County Board.

Our 3 Championship appearance at the major grades in 2016 have yielded only humiliation, particularly @ U21 and Senior. We haven't won an Ulster Title at any grade since 2009. We haven't won a Senior Title in 23 years, we haven't won a minor title in 18. The problem is systematic. The utter lack of infrastructure within Down is nothing short of a depressing!

Senior members of the Down County Board should resign, with an emergency meeting held to bring in some new forward thinking minds (those with actual minds would be a step forward). Unless we want another 20 years of complete and utter garbage!!

So 2005 didn't happen for our victorious Minor Footballers.

Did they win an Ulster Title though??

No they were beat by Armagh by a point in the Ulster final.

[clowry13]

It honestly astounds me how some people on here can defend our County Board.

Our 3 Championship appearance at the major grades in 2016 have yielded only humiliation, particularly @ U21 and Senior. We haven't won an Ulster Title at any grade since 2009. We haven't won a Senior Title in 23 years, we haven't won a minor title in 18. The problem is systematic. The utter lack of infrastructure within Down is nothing short of a depressing!

Senior members of the Down County Board should resign, with an emergency meeting held to bring in some new forward thinking minds (those with actual minds would be a step forward). Unless we want another 20 years of complete and utter garbage!!

So 2005 didn't happen for our victorious Minor Footballers.

They didn't win Ulster. armagh beat them in the final and they got through the backdoor way to win the all-Ireland

[Mrs mills]

Identifying underage players with potential has always been fraught with difficulty. Take a group of current U15s in a county. If the 'trial' rather than 'invitation' method is used, at least have some sort of quality control where clubs score the players they intend to send and cross reference these scores with those given by schools' coaches. From this comes your core group of players, usually 20-25 who are nailed on.
The trials may also throw up a few dark horses and some who, having been afforded the chance to play with better footballers, will shine. These, and others, make up the next group of 10-15 who must then be scouted for a number of club games to check on performance, particularly against strong opposition. Only some will deserve to make it.
Even after this protracted process, the key to real development is the quality of coaching delivered at each session and over a lengthy period. So many players are now used to well organised club sessions that they will be quick to find reasons to miss county sessions if they are not up to standard!
But what does 'up to standard' mean?

[rosskarr]

Identifying underage players with potential has always been fraught with difficulty. Take a group of current U15s in a county. If the 'trial' rather than 'invitation' method is used, at least have some sort of quality control where clubs score the players they intend to send and cross reference these scores with those given by schools' coaches. From this comes your core group of players, usually 20-25 who are nailed on.
The trials may also throw up a few dark horses and some who, having been afforded the chance to play with better footballers, will shine. These, and others, make up the next group of 10-15 who must then be scouted for a number of club games to check on performance, particularly against strong opposition. Only some will deserve to make it.
Even after this protracted process, the key to real development is the quality of coaching delivered at each session and over a lengthy period. So many players are now used to well organised club sessions that they will be quick to find reasons to miss county sessions if they are not up to standard!
But what does 'up to standard' mean?

Good points Mrs Mills.You're a wise lady.

[wobbller]

 It doesn't get any easier 24 hours later.