Down Club Hurling & Football

[OgraAnDun]

I think the criticism of the management is a bit harsh. They made some decisions that from the stands look crazy, but Burns was the only one that stood up to the plate when no other man in or out of the county would take the job - he knew exactly what was coming but did it anyway for the good of the county. There is a reason behind the decision making - I can't understand bringing on Brown either but apparently he's been flying in training - the management team don't just pick a random decision out of thin air and run with it to try and p*ss off everyone on the terraces.

[Mourne Rover]

It is pretty ludicrous to start demanding the selection of players who have either long-term injuries or have declined invitations to join the county squad. However, although those of us who were at the match obviously did not hear the interview, Marty Clarke has finally indicated that he was never asked to return in the first place. While this seems amazing, and deserves to be cleared up quickly, even a fully fit Clarke could have made little difference today. We sent out a team which showed some promise in the first half but capitulated to an embarrassing degree after the break. Our new management took on an exceptionally difficult task when Jim McCorry decided to walk last year, and have had to cope with a seriously weakened panel, but, even allowing for all that, there was little evidence of a viable game plan today and for large parts of our league campaign. The players did not look as though they believed in what they were doing when Monaghan turned on the pressure, and, unless a dramatic improvement follows, we will be heading back to division three next spring. Our problems go well beyond a single match, and what we really need is a comprehensive and independent review of our structures across the board. 

[thewobbler]

It's an interesting thing to bring up Line Ball. I don't even overly disagree with you except to say that if I was able go back in time and change anything from June 7th last year, the bus trip home would be among the very last of my priorities. The very last.

To respond to a few of the posts on here. The talent really isn't there in Down football present to challenge. The younger squad members, under-21s and juveniles since  2010 have really never kicked on at all. Watch D1 games and this is obvious. 10 years ago (when, let's be honest, Down were a poor side too) when you watched a D1 or D2 league game and the county players always stood out a mile. Nowadays you could watch 5 games without ever seeing that "wow factor". It's almost as though club football has developed a fat middle where there's dozens of players of roughly the same decent standard but very, very few of the class above.

I'm aware of this and I'm sure our county executive are too. And they might even have adopted a strategic approach to this, and "behind closed doors" have agreed to reduce senior team expenses over the next few years until players begin coming through, while at the same time, spending more time and effort on juvenile coaching. I could genuinely understand this approach if it's the case.

The problem though is that encouraging a talented 16 year old to dedicate his young adult years to County football requires more of a carrot than wearing a red and black shirt. Showing them a pathway that means training 5 days a week, minimal club football, strict diets, no booze, no holidays really isn't that easy unless that effort looks like gaining a reward. Another season or two like the current season and we, as a county, are finished... talented youngsters just won't see the benefit.

Players need to know the effort is worthwhile, need to know it will be reciprocated. Sacking Jim McCorry was always the wrong move because he had a track record of making the most out of teams. Shame on us.

[one day]

Well said Mourne Rover

[one day]

The Wobbler, Jim wasn't sacked, he walked

[OgraAnDun]

The Wobbler, Jim wasn't sacked, he walked

He was all but sacked after it was clear that the executive weren't supporting a vote in his favour.

[Smurfy123]

The powers that be should demand that clarke is at training this week
Serious questions need to be asked
And there was never any other person approached for the job this year

[ardtole]

Wobbler made a good point, who wants to train 5 nights a week, limited club football, 6/7 month drink bans, no guarantee of success/glory. A few months ago a poster suggested that Glenn players wouldnt commit to down because they wanted to concentrate on club for the year. I dont know how accurate this was but if anyway true down football is in a dark place. I take a lot off stuff on here with a pinch of salt but that stuck in my head for some reason.

[6th sam]

Supporters inevitably will have knee jerk reactions to heavy defeats, But reality will show we have had several disappointing days over the years, and much as it pains me to say it,  we maybe have a slightly deluded view of where we stand as a county.
It's just over 50 years ago when we won our first ulster title, but within 13 years we had annexed 8 ulster titles, in an incredibly rich vein of form, probably on the basis of real quality players and innovative organisational structures. Sadly in the subsequent 20 years we only won 2 ulster titles , and in the 25 years since 1991 we have won only other Ulster title (1994) . We have only won probably 5 minor titles and 5 u21 titles in the past 50 years.
In short , our stats would indicate that apart from our domination over a decade in the sixties, we have been relatively unsuccessful through our GAA history.
Our high expectations don't help us , as at all levels, managements are put under tremendous pressure by supporters etc to achieve, with calls for their heads if deemed to be unsuccessful.
Similarly our self-styled aristocratic aura, while undoubtedly attractive when we have success,  causes us problems , as some players have thought that making a Down squad or pulling on a red & black jersey is an end in itself, as opposed to winning silverware in that jersey .
There needs to be a realisation by all with Down's football success at heart, that our 60s success was as a result of innovation around the components of success eg getting several quality players in the jersey and preparing them for success...this didn't happen overnight.
Rather than being critical , every year, of players, managers and officials  who put their neck on the line, we should be realistic about our resources, and develop structures to deliver sustainable success. This includes ensuring that all current teams are punching above their weight, developing future county players and making it attractive to be a Down player.
There are several other vital factors outside the running of county teams, to achieve that:
1.A vibrant club scene dovetailing with the county scene,
2. a sustainable financial model to compete with the top counties, providing us with the facilities and resources necessary for success,
3. driving change centrally in the GAA to minimise club/county conflict and the disparity/inequality in the current provincial/allireland Intercounty fixtures , at all levels.
Eg how can we compete with Kerry who dust themselves off every July for their annual Cork clash( in Killarney every second year!) while Down have been travelling to play usually Div 1 opposition in May/June for the past ~20 years!!..rant over, An Dún Abú!

[SamFever]

Supporters inevitably will have knee jerk reactions to heavy defeats, But reality will show we have had several disappointing days over the years, and much as it pains me to say it,  we maybe have a slightly deluded view of where we stand as a county.
It's just over 50 years ago when we won our first ulster title, but within 13 years we had annexed 8 ulster titles, in an incredibly rich vein of form, probably on the basis of real quality players and innovative organisational structures. Sadly in the subsequent 20 years we only won 2 ulster titles , and in the 25 years since 1991 we have won only other Ulster title (1994) . We have only won probably 5 minor titles and 5 u21 titles in the past 50 years.
In short , our stats would indicate that apart from our domination over a decade in the sixties, we have been relatively unsuccessful through our GAA history.
Our high expectations don't help us , as at all levels, managements are put under tremendous pressure by supporters etc to achieve, with calls for their heads if deemed to be unsuccessful.
Similarly our self-styled aristocratic aura, while undoubtedly attractive when we have success,  causes us problems , as some players have thought that making a Down squad or pulling on a red & black jersey is an end in itself, as opposed to winning silverware in that jersey .
There needs to be a realisation by all with Down's football success at heart, that our 60s success was as a result of innovation around the components of success eg getting several quality players in the jersey and preparing them for success...this didn't happen overnight.
Rather than being critical , every year, of players, managers and officials  who put their neck on the line, we should be realistic about our resources, and develop structures to deliver sustainable success. This includes ensuring that all current teams are punching above their weight, developing future county players and making it attractive to be a Down player.
There are several other vital factors outside the running of county teams, to achieve that:
1.A vibrant club scene dovetailing with the county scene,
2. a sustainable financial model to compete with the top counties, providing us with the facilities and resources necessary for success,
3. driving change centrally in the GAA to minimise club/county conflict and the disparity/inequality in the current provincial/allireland Intercounty fixtures , at all levels.
Eg how can we compete with Kerry who dust themselves off every July for their annual Cork clash( in Killarney every second year!) while Down have been travelling to play usually Div 1 opposition in May/June for the past ~20 years!!..rant over, An Dún Abú!

     Decided to post again in calm rather than knee-jerk.We did look Ok in the first half but in the 2nd half we capitulated.By saying we looked ok in the first half the Monaghan ones beside me were disgusted with their first half showing so the first half from a Down perspective was probably more Down playing average and Monaghan well below their average.

    Where do we go from here?

Our County Board needs re-formed in a way that reflects the needs of each Club but at the same realizing that it is these Clubs who make up our County administration.So having someone from each Club who understands that is a necessity.From what I hear and know the calibre of people attending from a lot of our Clubs are "past it or over the hill".
It is these people who control the County and the situation that exists in Down and a lot of Counties is akin to the recent Irish Farmers Union elections.

  So now if each of our posters can reflect on who there Club Delegate is and keep it in mind for the next few sentences.....

   Can you imagine any small farmer from Ballygo backwards or other parts of rural Ireland being in charge of that body? No chance but what you have is a body made up with savvy administrators voted for by the like minded farmers from ballygobackwards who themselves really understand that they aren't capable of being in charge. Take a photo shoot of our delegates and I imagine it'd be  like a School re-union photo from the 50's or 60's.

If this can be achieved we then get what some posters are suggesting capable people onto positions where they can effect change in how our whole County is run.

6th Sams habitual rants about where we should be are like the "saved folk" who occasionally knock on the doors spouting their religious ideas. Bullsh-t!

[johnneycool]

Down (hurling and Football) remind me of how Scotland mishandled the advent of professional rugby and were left in the wilderness for years.
When full time roles were being filled within the GAA, ours haven't helped one iota whereas other counties have kicked on considerably leaving us pining for the glory days.

[imagine]

Supporters inevitably will have knee jerk reactions to heavy defeats, But reality will show we have had several disappointing days over the years, and much as it pains me to say it,  we maybe have a slightly deluded view of where we stand as a county.
It's just over 50 years ago when we won our first ulster title, but within 13 years we had annexed 8 ulster titles, in an incredibly rich vein of form, probably on the basis of real quality players and innovative organisational structures. Sadly in the subsequent 20 years we only won 2 ulster titles , and in the 25 years since 1991 we have won only other Ulster title (1994) . We have only won probably 5 minor titles and 5 u21 titles in the past 50 years.
In short , our stats would indicate that apart from our domination over a decade in the sixties, we have been relatively unsuccessful through our GAA history.
Our high expectations don't help us , as at all levels, managements are put under tremendous pressure by supporters etc to achieve, with calls for their heads if deemed to be unsuccessful.
Similarly our self-styled aristocratic aura, while undoubtedly attractive when we have success,  causes us problems , as some players have thought that making a Down squad or pulling on a red & black jersey is an end in itself, as opposed to winning silverware in that jersey .
There needs to be a realisation by all with Down's football success at heart, that our 60s success was as a result of innovation around the components of success eg getting several quality players in the jersey and preparing them for success...this didn't happen overnight.
Rather than being critical , every year, of players, managers and officials  who put their neck on the line, we should be realistic about our resources, and develop structures to deliver sustainable success. This includes ensuring that all current teams are punching above their weight, developing future county players and making it attractive to be a Down player.
There are several other vital factors outside the running of county teams, to achieve that:
1.A vibrant club scene dovetailing with the county scene,
2. a sustainable financial model to compete with the top counties, providing us with the facilities and resources necessary for success,
3. driving change centrally in the GAA to minimise club/county conflict and the disparity/inequality in the current provincial/allireland Intercounty fixtures , at all levels.
Eg how can we compete with Kerry who dust themselves off every July for their annual Cork clash( in Killarney every second year!) while Down have been travelling to play usually Div 1 opposition in May/June for the past ~20 years!!..rant over, An Dún Abú!

     Decided to post again in calm rather than knee-jerk.We did look Ok in the first half but in the 2nd half we capitulated.By saying we looked ok in the first half the Monaghan ones beside me were disgusted with their first half showing so the first half from a Down perspective was probably more Down playing average and Monaghan well below their average.

    Where do we go from here?

Our County Board needs re-formed in a way that reflects the needs of each Club but at the same realizing that it is these Clubs who make up our County administration.So having someone from each Club who understands that is a necessity.From what I hear and know the calibre of people attending from a lot of our Clubs are "past it or over the hill".
It is these people who control the County and the situation that exists in Down and a lot of Counties is akin to the recent Irish Farmers Union elections.

  So now if each of our posters can reflect on who there Club Delegate is and keep it in mind for the next few sentences.....

   Can you imagine any small farmer from Ballygo backwards or other parts of rural Ireland being in charge of that body? No chance but what you have is a body made up with savvy administrators voted for by the like minded farmers from ballygobackwards who themselves really understand that they aren't capable of being in charge. Take a photo shoot of our delegates and I imagine it'd be  like a School re-union photo from the 50's or 60's.

If this can be achieved we then get what some posters are suggesting capable people onto positions where they can effect change in how our whole County is run.

6th Sams habitual rants about where we should be are like the "saved folk" who occasionally knock on the doors spouting their religious ideas. Bullsh-t!

You've hit the nail on the head at least as far as our Club is. Long since retired from work but still attending county Board and if this is replicated in say only half of our clubs it is indeed
a talking shop for retired ones when the reality should be young up to speed people in the modern world.

[CHB1]

I don't post much on here but read the views a lot.  Is it money that is ruining the game at a club level?  A lot of clubs nowadays are paying for managers, rightly or wrongly.  When money is involved does it become the new motivation? earn a few pound, cash in the pocket, no tax.  Some of the amounts being bandied about that managers are getting paid is astronomical. People have to work a full week to earn such amounts.  Should clubs be made register as an employer?  Declare the money being paid to individuals and see if it brings back the volunteer ethos that gaelic games are meant to be based on? 

[A man from Down]

In our heart of hearts we all knew this was coming but how the boys just gave up was so depressing. At least under wee James there was always fight in us but to simply give up is just not on. The debate for some time now is that it all stems from the County board and their inadequacies. A small part of me yesterday evening was relieved in a strange way because I felt that the disaster that was always in the post had finally arrived and that this would now be a watershed moment, a turning point. it surely can't get any worse?

Watching the Sunday game last night was bizarre in that Thomas O Se when commenting on Down and the weaker footballing counties in general made the point that equivalent competitions like the lesser hurling format would be good so "that teams wouldn't be getting thumped by 19 points and would get a day out in Croke pk" For F$ck sake we contested an All Ireland Final 6 years ago and this is where we are at now!!

Also the point made by wobbler that the current county players don't stand out in club football is bang on. Club football in Down also has become hard to watch and the optimism that comes with a decent minor or under 21 side or rising star from either appears to be no more. 

[CHB1]

Our underage needs an overhaul of some sort. Enjoyment has to come back into it.  In our all county minor league clubs have panels of 16-17 to work with.  Where are all the young lads?  Why do they not play?