Down Club Hurling & Football

[Pangurban]

I have never understood this tactic of forwards, particularly Half Forwards, retreating back to help their defence. Surely this only gives the opposing Half Backs the opportunity to advance into scoring positions. If forwards stayed forward there would be less pressure on defenders, and an outlet too kick the Ball forward when they achieved a turnover. Forwards can aid defenders by applying pressure on opposing defences during their kickouts or when they are attempting to clear their lines. I still adhere to the old maxim-- You do not play football in your own half, defenders should not be employing numerous handpasses in dangerous positions to clear their lines, when one well directed kick would suffice, and that requires forwards to stay forward. If halfbacks choose to advance into attacking positions leaving forwards unattended, so much the better. Lavery,O Hare,Hughes, Coulter et al. would have a field day

[PAULD123]

What exactly is this new system?....

Not surprised you need it explaining to you if you don't even bother to go to the game to see for yourself

Cant argue with your stats as I don't have enough time on my hands nor want to do the research you have done.....

Hardly surprising you have no interest in checking your facts or actually basing your opinion on something other than bile, when you can't even be bothered to go to the game.

.... Trying to replicate Donegal's system isnt workin for us, it only took donegal six months to improve their defensive side of the game ,from maginess took over til round 1 in the championship....

The problem with tryin to play that way is .,......... this hasnt happened in the down camp, there in lies the problem.

If you don't even go to the matches, I seriously doubt you attend training sessions. So how are you an expert on what happens in the Down camp?

Secondly what part of your own comment did you not read – It took Donegal six months according to you but after only one month you are confidently announcing we have failed!!!! By the way McGuinnes started  training Donegal in his approach in July 2010. It took him a year to get it right for the championship. But hey, why check your facts???

no i wasnt in at the match last weekend....

Well that just says it all really doesn't it?

[stiff breeze]

If you don't even go to the matches, I seriously doubt you attend training sessions. So how are you an expert on what happens in the Down camp?

Secondly what part of your own comment did you not read – It took Donegal six months according to you but after only one month you are confidently announcing we have failed!!!! By the way McGuinnes started  training Donegal in his approach in July 2010. It took him a year to get it right for the championship. But hey, why check your facts???

rather than counter any of my points , you pointed out FOUR times what i already told you, I wasnt at the match, get over it.

Now just to correct what you THINK you know , yes Down played a system last year where  a corner forward dropped back into the half back line like you said but they did not just drop a sweeper into the defence , whatever side the attack was coming down the half forward on the other side dropped back allowing the far side half back to come across and close the space, this didnt work as teams played early ball and also there was confusion about the system.

secondly jim mc guinness took over in july 2010 but didnt meet then donegal panel until november 2010 and didnt start trainin til december 2010 .  So on the 15th of may 2011  when they started the ulster championship he had only been training them for six months and had turned them into a solid defensive unit that conceded no more than nine scores in any ulster game. FACT

I bothered to do a bit of research and have now embarrassed you, but feel free to continue blindly believing a new dawn is coming under wee james.

over to you

[PAULD123]

....
secondly jim mc guinness ..... had turned them into a solid defensive unit that conceded no more than nine scores in any ulster game. FACT

I bothered to do a bit of research and have now embarrassed you, but feel free to continue blindly believing a new dawn is coming under wee james.

over to you

Why would I be embarrassed by someone that can't count? Donegal conceded 11 points to Cavan  in the 2011 Ulster QF, 13 points to Cavan in the 2012 Ulster prelim, 13 points to Derry in the 2012 semi-final and ......... Wait for it....... 13 points to Us, your own team in the 2012 final!!!!!!!

So just because you put the word FACT in big brave bold capital letters doesn't actually mean that it is.

[stiff breeze]

....
secondly jim mc guinness ..... had turned them into a solid defensive unit that conceded no more than nine scores in any ulster game. FACT

I bothered to do a bit of research and have now embarrassed you, but feel free to continue blindly believing a new dawn is coming under wee james.

over to you

Why would I be embarrassed by someone that can't count? Donegal conceded 11 points to Cavan  in the 2011 Ulster QF, 13 points to Cavan in the 2012 Ulster prelim, 13 points to Derry in the 2012 semi-final and ......... Wait for it....... 13 points to Us, your own team in the 2012 final!!!!!!!

So just because you put the word FACT in big brave bold capital letters doesn't actually mean that it is.

I meant ulster that year,  and u are right about the cavan game, but barring that slip my point still stands that donegal on took six months to implement their new system

[PAULD123]

I have never understood this tactic of forwards, particularly Half Forwards, retreating back to help their defence. Surely this only gives the opposing Half Backs the opportunity to advance into scoring positions. If forwards stayed forward there would be less pressure on defenders, and an outlet too kick the Ball forward when they achieved a turnover. Forwards can aid defenders by applying pressure on opposing defences during their kickouts or when they are attempting to clear their lines. I still adhere to the old maxim-- You do not play football in your own half, defenders should not be employing numerous handpasses in dangerous positions to clear their lines, when one well directed kick would suffice, and that requires forwards to stay forward. If halfbacks choose to advance into attacking positions leaving forwards unattended, so much the better. Lavery,O Hare,Hughes, Coulter et al. would have a field day

This is a very valid view. If you attack the opposition then they go backwards and can't attack you, but you leave yourself exposed if they do. If you retreat then you can't attack them but they can't score easily. Are you retreating and allowing the opposition defenders on to you? or are you being pushed back by their marauding? I don't think there is a simple answer or a simple solution.

I don't think there is one general approach that fits all situations. But as you said old maxims can sometimes be the most useful. Here's one - The team that works the hardest is generally going to win. The most important aspects are not zonal tactics or formations.

In defence it is to get between the man and the goal (or person he wants to pass to), to obstruct, slow down, keep tight. To cover possible receivers of a pass, to protect the small box, to force the ball backwards if any direction, to chase down tirelessly.

In possession it is to move forward, to draw opposition players to you, to pass the ball to a man in free space, to always be running to get into a free space to receive the ball, for all players in attack to all be moving to unsettle the defence and create openings and space. And most important (this one I love above all others) - TAKE YOUR POINTS AND THE GOALS WILL COME!

All of the above is what we were all taught as youngsters, it is the foundation of our sport, it is what Donegal do obsessively.

Systems, statistical analysis and structured tactics are only the icing on the cake. Pangurban is totally correct in that they are not a substitute for traditional aspects.

[western exile]

There is an interesting bit of trivia in the rugby section of this weekends Irish Times about Craig Gilroy who will start on the wing for Ireland today. Apparently he played Gaelic football at midfield for St. Paul's during his teenage years.

[Gaa for life]

Any predictions for ACPRL on Sunday?

[supersub]

Saval V Clonduff

Rostrevor V Loughinisland

Kilcoo V Mayobridge

Castlewellan V An Ríocht

Burren V Bryansford

[Down Follower]

Saval V Clonduff

Rostrevor V Loughinisland

Kilcoo V Mayobridge

Castlewellan V An Ríocht

Burren V Bryansford

I think Bryansford will have quite a strong Reserve team this year following their Under 21 success.  For the first 4 or 5 games anyway.  Always strong teams out this time of year for reserves as seniors are still a month away so managers use them as game time for any senior player not registered.  All games should therefore be extremely competitive and quite intense.

[DaisyCutter]

A brilliant game of football in Kilcoo this morning! It was every bit a senior Div 1 game! Final score was 3-11 each with pluggy Barry and young Martin Devlin, excellent for both sides. Also very well referred by Ciaran Brannigan of Bryansford. I hear Down lost again. Any reports?

[ranch]

Was down Ballykilnar direction today to watch a game, nice set-up there for such a small club.

[DaisyCutter]

"Refereed"

[whitegoodman]

That was difficult to take....

The goalkeeper started well and varied his kick outs but lost ll confidence after the second goal. I'd say mcveigh will come back in the next day which s a pity as I see a lot of potential in Cunningham especially with the variation in kick outs.

Whilst the full back line looked like being on the edge of getting a skinning the performed admirably and held out well for most of the game.

I thought Carr had a great game bar one bad free kick and i can admit that I may have been wrong on my dismissive approach to his selection at chb at the start of the year. Mallon came in to it very well in the second half witha great catch and fine point. Whilst mccumiskey played Kerrigan well his placement at half back just didn't fit well with me and he was guilty of losing the ball for the goal at the end. I hope the experiment doesn't last and we see him closer to opposition goals sooner rather than later.

Although walsh kicked some fine points mckernan had hs best game in quite a while. The free role suits him and he is starting to win his own ball which is important. King struggled with the pace even against canty and may find it difficult to keep his place when other players get fit.

Poland had a good game, certainly his best of the year and kicked a couple of fine points. Laverty buzzed about, worked like a terrior and scored a couple of points including what looked like the securing point towards the end. Quinn had a day to forgot and may struggle to keep his place based on today.

Benny rolled back the years with a vintage performance both inside and out the field. My only minor complaint were that he wasted a couple of good chances when there looked to be better options.  Harrison scored a cracking goal and worked hard but struggled to get into the game IMO.  Saving the best for last ohare was tremendous and is easily downs best finisher which is why I found it strange that the took him out the field for parts of both halfs.  He has been downs best player this year so far.

I applaud James trying to create a new team and bringing through the younger lads but a couple of the lads coming on looked very lightweight.  Overall there was more positives than negatives I think we could win next sat night and still stay up.

[No1]

Agree with most of that WGM.  Best team lost today, although we mixed the sublime with the ridiculous.  It's not often you see Kerrigan and O'Connor both being taken off so some credit to a much maligned defence must be given. 

Only for a goalkeeping error we'd have won and it was a sickening way to lose the game but there was much to take heart from. 

Couple of negatives were the performance of Cunningham in goals (who up to today has played very well and looked very assured) but perhaps I am being too harsh on him and the subbing of Donal O'Hare and his replacement, I have no idea what that was supposed to achieve.

I think we'll stay up.