Maigh Eo v Ciarrai, 1700, 30ú Lúnasa, Gaelic Grounds

[whitey]

But what does the actual rule say?  Is there a limit on how long a blood sub can stay off?

(Mayo folk arent too interested in Reillys "interpretation" of the rules.  He found a way to "interpret" some pretty black and white ones to our cost on Saturday)

Rule 1.5(b) Rules of control

(b) Injuries: Blood - A player who is bleeding
or who has blood on any part of his body,
playing attire or playing equipment, as a result
of an injury sustained during play, shall on
the instruction of the Referee, immediately
leave the field of play to receive medical and/
or other attention. He shall not be allowed to
return to the field of play until the bleeding
has stopped, all blood has been cleaned off
and, where possible, the injured area has
been covered, any blood-stained playing attire
has been replaced and any blood-stained
equipment has been fully cleaned. In that
circumstance, a Temporary Substitute may be
used, and the following acts shall not count as
substitutions under Rule 2.4 (i) and (ii), Rules
of Specification.
(1) The use of the Temporary Substitute
for a player instructed to leave the field
under the Rule.
(2) The return to the field of play of the
injured (blood) player as a direct
replacement for the Temporary
Substitute.
(3) The return to the field of play of the
injured (blood) player as a replacement
for any other player if the Temporary
Substitute has previously been sent off
or substituted.

So once again there is no hard and fast rule....it is up to the discretion of the referee.

So playing this out to its illogical conclusion, Mayo could have dithered around stitching him up to allow him to recover from the clash of heads, and then finished the job properly and sent him back in

[whitey]

  Lad and Lassies the ref had a terrible game and yeah unfortunately a string of bad decisions went against us at bad times but this was just bad luck as on another day these decisions could all have gone for us. I am not in any way defending Cormac Reilly as he a a very poor game from the off ( this wasn't a case of missing a couple of key decisions) but he made a string of bad/questionable calls that generally fell in our favour in the quarter final so until the standard of reffing , rules and appeals process is greatly improved counties are going to be affected ( Louth 2010 , Kildare 2010 and the q/final 2011)!!

I would like us as a county to realise though that overall Kerry were better than us and we couldn't deal with what was within our control i.e the long ball to Donaghy and being wiped out in midfield. Kerry challenged us in these two specific areas and we didn't have any credible answers so fair play to them , good luck in the final and I look forward to having a right good battle down in Kerry next spring.

Wiped put at midfield...think that has anything to do with AOS....one of the top 4 Midfielders in the country...getting poleaxed by a late hit from a player who should have  prior to that stage been shown the line.  These events dont occur in a vacum

[highorlow]

Keane was obviously told that he had to be physical, he got too distracted by this thought and never concentrated on the ball.

Enright was obviously told the same when dealing with Cillian. Young Enright took whatever was said to him by his management so literally that he was lucky to be still on the field after 20 minutes and his management came to his rescue by subbing him.

As for the 14 men argument. His sub Marc O'Shea played well when he came on and got a point. A luxury Kerry didn't deserve.

I want to sign off on this also. I came out of the field on Sat evening having some small doubts about the decisions and overall thought bollix to it Kerry were probably the best team. I was the other end of the ground for the penalties. But now having sat through the SG and some highlights I can see we were robbed.

In the long term posters here and all our supporters will get on with it. Our efforts are basic, going to matches to support the lads.  But when a team of young lads and a couple or so close to the end of their careers along with a backroom team that have put in the efforts of a lifetime over the last 4 years are denied or more than likely denied an AI Final by a ref then it is hard to take.

I came into work on Monday and said nothing about the match or ref to my colleagues until people brought it up, every person said we were robbed and that included 3 Kerry lads.

Also if this ref talk is getting embarrassing then go off and tell Ambrose O'Donovan, he also said on Kerry radio yesterday that they were handed 1-3 by the ref.

This is not the way Kerry would have wanted to win. They are a sporting team.

This must be the greatest injustice ever carried out on a team in the recent history of our games, even greater than the Louth fiasco.

[Msgr. Horan]

 
I would like us as a county to realise though that overall Kerry were better than us and we couldn't deal with what was within our control i.e the long ball to Donaghy and being wiped out in midfield. Kerry challenged us in these two specific areas and we didn't have any credible answers so fair play to them , good luck in the final and I look forward to having a right good battle down in Kerry next spring.

No, you cant be as glib as that about it.  even with what you say being true, we still brought the game to extra time and had a kick to win it at the end of normal time. So even for all their superiority in certain areas we still were with them until the end. Do you think they would have had those advantages playing with a man less for almost 60 minutes? And it didnt stop there, the actions of the ref in letting Enright off meant that Kerry could chance their arms from then on, and they did everywhere. So its not as simple as sitting back and saying over the 100 minutes or so they had those advantages. Games ebb and flow and you cannot get away from the fact, given the small margins, that the referee gave them a huge advantage and given that they couldnt beat us over all that time the only logical conclusion to make is that advantage he gave them is the reason they won the game and is the reason why some people expect us just to say "ah sure they were better". yes they were better, after being handed an advantage.

And I'd be fine with all that if someone on the Kerry side would have the honesty to say "we got all the breaks" rather than this shite of Fitzmaurice saying something along the lines of people underestimated their desire, and Maher saying they didnt want to come out the wrong side of a classic.
What an insult to the Mayo team those comments are, I suppose Kerry "just had more hunger" give me a f**king break,one side  loses 2 all ireland finals, still comes back for more, gets f*cked by the ref, has their two best players almost endup knocking eachother out and has them off the field for over 10 minutes, and the opposition come out with this shite about it all being about desire? Insinuating that theres was more than the oppositions. That, I have to say is what is the most classless about this whole thing. Kerry, ye got lucky with the ref and all the breaks that were going on the day, there was nothing more in the contest so at least be honest enough to admit that and at least we can all acknowledge it and move on. For some of us it may take another 6 months, but we'll move on eventually.

[Msgr. Horan]

Keane was obviously told that he had to be physical, he got too distracted by this thought and never concentrated on the ball.

Enright was obviously told the same when dealing with Cillian. Young Enright took whatever was said to him by his management so literally that he was lucky to be still on the field after 20 minutes and they came to his rescue by subbing him.

As for the 14 men argument. His sub Marc O'Shea played well when he cam on and got a point. A luxury Kerry didn't deserve.

I want to sign off on this also. I came out of the field on Sat evening having some small doubts about the decisions. I was the other end of the ground for the penalties. Having sat through the SG and some highlights I can see we were robbed.

In the long term posters here and all our supporters will get on with it. Our efforts are basic, going to matches to support the lads.  But when a team of young lads and a couple or so close to the end of their careers along with a backroom team that have put in the efforts of a lifetime over the last 4 years are denied or possibly denied an AI Final by a ref then it is hard to take.

I came into work on Monday and said nothing about the match or ref until people brought it up, every person said we were robbed and that included 3 Kerry lads.

Also if this ref talk is getting embarrassing then go off and tell Ambrose O'Donovan, he also said on Kerry radio yesterday that they were handed 1-3 by the ref.

This must be the greatest injustice ever carried out on a team in the recent history of our games, even greater than the Louth fiasco.

Exactly, thats precisely the point. This is arguably even more important than some big decisions that might cost a professional team a prize that costs them money. This is visceral, its about who you are and where you are from. Some of those lads who have given so much might never get another chance and have to carry that around for the rest of their lives. Anyone who says that isn't the case doesn't live in a GAA community. Thats fine if you lose legitimately, but is very f**king hard to take when its a complete injustice. And the revisionists who write what they write based on the scoreline and who the victors are, can say what they like but bottom line was if there was an even distribution of breaks in that game, Mayo would probably have one.

[screenexile]

 
I would like us as a county to realise though that overall Kerry were better than us and we couldn't deal with what was within our control i.e the long ball to Donaghy and being wiped out in midfield. Kerry challenged us in these two specific areas and we didn't have any credible answers so fair play to them , good luck in the final and I look forward to having a right good battle down in Kerry next spring.

No, you cant be as glib as that about it.  even with what you say being true, we still brought the game to extra time and had a kick to win it at the end of normal time. So even for all their superiority in certain areas we still were with them until the end. Do you think they would have had those advantages playing with a man less for almost 60 minutes? And it didnt stop there, the actions of the ref in letting Enright off meant that Kerry could chance their arms from then on, and they did everywhere. So its not as simple as sitting back and saying over the 100 minutes or so they had those advantages. Games ebb and flow and you cannot get away from the fact, given the small margins, that the referee gave them a huge advantage and given that they couldnt beat us over all that time the only logical conclusion to make is that advantage he gave them is the reason they won the game and is the reason why some people expect us just to say "ah sure they were better". yes they were better, after being handed an advantage.

And I'd be fine with all that if someone on the Kerry side would have the honesty to say "we got all the breaks" rather than this shite of Fitzmaurice saying something along the lines of people underestimated their desire, and Maher saying they didnt want to come out the wrong side of a classic.
What an insult to the Mayo team those comments are, I suppose Kerry "just had more hunger" give me a f**king break,one side  loses 2 all ireland finals, still comes back for more, gets f*cked by the ref, has their two best players almost endup knocking eachother out and has them off the field for over 10 minutes, and the opposition come out with this shite about it all being about desire? Insinuating that theres was more than the oppositions. That, I have to say is what is the most classless about this whole thing. Kerry, ye got lucky with the ref and all the breaks that were going on the day, there was nothing more in the contest so at least be honest enough to admit that and at least we can all acknowledge it and move on. For some of us it may take another 6 months, but we'll move on eventually.

Keane was obviously told that he had to be physical, he got too distracted by this thought and never concentrated on the ball.

Enright was obviously told the same when dealing with Cillian. Young Enright took whatever was said to him by his management so literally that he was lucky to be still on the field after 20 minutes and his management came to his rescue by subbing him.

As for the 14 men argument. His sub Marc O'Shea played well when he came on and got a point. A luxury Kerry didn't deserve.

I want to sign off on this also. I came out of the field on Sat evening having some small doubts about the decisions and overall thought bollix to it Kerry were probably the best team. I was the other end of the ground for the penalties. But now having sat through the SG and some highlights I can see we were robbed.

In the long term posters here and all our supporters will get on with it. Our efforts are basic, going to matches to support the lads.  But when a team of young lads and a couple or so close to the end of their careers along with a backroom team that have put in the efforts of a lifetime over the last 4 years are denied or more than likely denied an AI Final by a ref then it is hard to take.

I came into work on Monday and said nothing about the match or ref to my colleagues until people brought it up, every person said we were robbed and that included 3 Kerry lads.

Also if this ref talk is getting embarrassing then go off and tell Ambrose O'Donovan, he also said on Kerry radio yesterday that they were handed 1-3 by the ref.

This is not the way Kerry would have wanted to win. They are a sporting team.

This must be the greatest injustice ever carried out on a team in the recent history of our games, even greater than the Louth fiasco.

[AZOffaly]

So yer position is the ref robbed ye, and no credit is due to Kerry? That's more disrespectful than some perceived slight that Kerry didn't say they got the breaks. For what it's worth, I'm sure you'll see loads of that in the run up to the All Ireland.

[Sidney]

Wiped put at midfield...think that has anything to do with AOS....one of the top 4 Midfielders in the country...getting poleaxed by a late hit from a player who should have  prior to that stage been shown the line.  These events dont occur in a vacum

As a neutral who was at Saturday's match, I do feel that Mayo suffered from Reilly's decisions far more, and the failure to send Enright off probably cost them the match. Tackles like Enright's on O'Se's don't occur in a vacuum but neither did the way Reilly refereed the game occur in a vacuum - the tone for the way the replay was to be refereed was set by Mayo not accepting what was a deserved sending off for Lee Keegan in the first match. Coldrick was rightly fucked over and whoever the referee for the replay was was always going to be afraid to send anybody off. The players knew this, some of them pushed their luck, got away with it, and the game ran away from Reilly's control.

[whitey]

So yer position is the ref robbed ye, and no credit is due to Kerry? That's more disrespectful than some perceived slight that Kerry didn't say they got the breaks. For what it's worth, I'm sure you'll see loads of that in the run up to the All Ireland.

Who's saying no credit is due to Kerry?

If there was a fair application and interpretation of the rules Kerry would most likely not have been in a position to pull out a victory

Often games can be decided on one or two missed calls.Theyre the breaks ....in this case they were at least 5 and maybe 6 calls ( and non calls) that kept Kerry in the game at vital times. As JH said it's not good for the soul and with that I need to take a step back debating this also

[Crete Boom]

  Lad and Lassies the ref had a terrible game and yeah unfortunately a string of bad decisions went against us at bad times but this was just bad luck as on another day these decisions could all have gone for us. I am not in any way defending Cormac Reilly as he a a very poor game from the off ( this wasn't a case of missing a couple of key decisions) but he made a string of bad/questionable calls that generally fell in our favour in the quarter final so until the standard of reffing , rules and appeals process is greatly improved counties are going to be affected ( Louth 2010 , Kildare 2010 and the q/final 2011)!!

I would like us as a county to realise though that overall Kerry were better than us and we couldn't deal with what was within our control i.e the long ball to Donaghy and being wiped out in midfield. Kerry challenged us in these two specific areas and we didn't have any credible answers so fair play to them , good luck in the final and I look forward to having a right good battle down in Kerry next spring.

Wiped put at midfield...think that has anything to do with AOS....one of the top 4 Midfielders in the country...getting poleaxed by a late hit from a player who should have  prior to that stage been shown the line.  These events dont occur in a vacum

  David Moran was on top in the middle for the majority of the drawn game and started te replay strongly dominating our kickouts before O'Shea took that hit. Not having Aidan anywhere near 100% after this was a problem but more importantly Kevin Mac and Keegan weren't anywhere on the breaking ball like they normally are coupled with Barry and Seamus struggling and we were unable to come up with any tactical or personnel change to address this problem. The ref had nothing to do with Keegan and Mac having a bad day at the office , did he? Also we seemed unable to change our kickout strategy so Robbie kept kicking long into the middle where Kerry gobbled up the ball time and again.Is this not something in our control and not the refs? When you think we only lost by 3 points addressing these problems even by 50 % probably would have got us over the line regardless of the 1-3 that came directly from terrible calls by the ref!! Granted most of Robbie's kickouts go to Aidan but with the quality of team we have should we have to rely on one man so heavily for primary possession without a plan B?

[Mike Sheehy]

One golden rule I have is never, ever put the boot in the aftermath of a game if you win but, jesus, some of you lads are making it hard  I get that you are pissed off at the ref but stop having a go at us because of that.

I was watching the game as a Kerry fan. You watched it as a Mayo fan. Practically every decision that went against us I could question. You (obviously!!) are the same. There were periods, especially in the first half where, it seemed we only had to touch a Mayoman and he got a free.

I also want to put the record straight on one thing on the Enright penalty since ye are complaining about it so much.... Remember when they were Jostling before the ball dropped ? Enright was facing toward his own goal and couldn't see the ball..well, there was a clear push by O'Connor on Enright right before he got that ball.  That push did three things,it allowed O'Connor to gather the ball, unbalanced Enright and gave him the split second to get away forcing Enright to pull him down.

I'm not saying it was a huge push but it was definitely a foul in my book so if you are going to go through every incident forensically then you need to take everything into account.

So instead of getting a penalty and a black card for Enright it might have been a free out to Kerry. Since you got the penalty and scored I would say that it worked out fair enough in the end.

[Crete Boom]

 
I would like us as a county to realise though that overall Kerry were better than us and we couldn't deal with what was within our control i.e the long ball to Donaghy and being wiped out in midfield. Kerry challenged us in these two specific areas and we didn't have any credible answers so fair play to them , good luck in the final and I look forward to having a right good battle down in Kerry next spring.

No, you cant be as glib as that about it.  even with what you say being true, we still brought the game to extra time and had a kick to win it at the end of normal time. So even for all their superiority in certain areas we still were with them until the end. Do you think they would have had those advantages playing with a man less for almost 60 minutes? And it didnt stop there, the actions of the ref in letting Enright off meant that Kerry could chance their arms from then on, and they did everywhere. So its not as simple as sitting back and saying over the 100 minutes or so they had those advantages. Games ebb and flow and you cannot get away from the fact, given the small margins, that the referee gave them a huge advantage and given that they couldnt beat us over all that time the only logical conclusion to make is that advantage he gave them is the reason they won the game and is the reason why some people expect us just to say "ah sure they were better". yes they were better, after being handed an advantage.

And I'd be fine with all that if someone on the Kerry side would have the honesty to say "we got all the breaks" rather than this shite of Fitzmaurice saying something along the lines of people underestimated their desire, and Maher saying they didnt want to come out the wrong side of a classic.
What an insult to the Mayo team those comments are, I suppose Kerry "just had more hunger" give me a f**king break,one side  loses 2 all ireland finals, still comes back for more, gets f*cked by the ref, has their two best players almost endup knocking eachother out and has them off the field for over 10 minutes, and the opposition come out with this shite about it all being about desire? Insinuating that theres was more than the oppositions. That, I have to say is what is the most classless about this whole thing. Kerry, ye got lucky with the ref and all the breaks that were going on the day, there was nothing more in the contest so at least be honest enough to admit that and at least we can all acknowledge it and move on. For some of us it may take another 6 months, but we'll move on eventually.

The ref did what he did and unfortunately that is outside of our team and any other teams control. I was as angry as anyone at the final whistle and probably close to mental breakdown territory after watching back the game but having had a day to reflect on the game  I watched it again and two large factors ( not the only factors though) were our problems in the middle third and leaving Ger Caff one on one with Donaghy. These two problems were within our control to address and we didn't in any meaningful way. I believe if we could have got a handle on one of these two problems in the second half we would have won regardless of Reilly's obvious incompetence. This I say would hurt James and the players more than the terrible reffing and to be honest it annoys me more but hey that's is just me.

[larryin89]

One golden rule I have is never, ever put the boot in the aftermath of a game if you win but, jesus, some of you lads are making it hard  I get that you are pissed off at the ref but stop having a go at us because of that.

I was watching the game as a Kerry fan. You watched it as a Mayo fan. Practically every decision that went against us I could question. You (obviously!!) are the same. There were periods, especially in the first half where, it seemed we only had to touch a Mayoman and he got a free.

I also want to put the record straight on one thing on the Enright penalty since ye are complaining about it so much.... Remember when they were Jostling before the ball dropped ? Enright was facing toward his own goal and couldn't see the ball..well, there was a clear push by O'Connor on Enright right before he got that ball.  That push did three things,it allowed O'Connor to gather the ball, unbalanced Enright and gave him the split second to get away forcing Enright to pull him down.

I'm not saying it was a huge push but it was definitely a foul in my book so if you are going to go through every incident forensically then you need to take everything into account.

So instead of getting a penalty and a black card for Enright it might have been a free out to Kerry. Since you got the penalty and scored I would say that it worked out fair enough in the end.

wow there Sheehy,  lets slow that down a biteen now. How did the ref see it is the point, he seen the incident as a penalty, has to be a card sin e, yellow or balck who cares , has to be one or the other, it wasnt because the dirty rotten meath f**ker yellowed out of it because it was bath time for enright . Even up the Keegan technicality is all it was, you know it, we know it everybody knows it and pat mcanneany knows it ( he had a nice seat at croker on sunday beside his buddy from Kerry)

[J OGorman]

One golden rule I have is never, ever put the boot in the aftermath of a game if you win but, jesus, some of you lads are making it hard  I get that you are pissed off at the ref but stop having a go at us because of that.

I was watching the game as a Kerry fan. You watched it as a Mayo fan. Practically every decision that went against us I could question. You (obviously!!) are the same. There were periods, especially in the first half where, it seemed we only had to touch a Mayoman and he got a free.

I also want to put the record straight on one thing on the Enright penalty since ye are complaining about it so much.... Remember when they were Jostling before the ball dropped ? Enright was facing toward his own goal and couldn't see the ball..well, there was a clear push by O'Connor on Enright right before he got that ball.  That push did three things,it allowed O'Connor to gather the ball, unbalanced Enright and gave him the split second to get away forcing Enright to pull him down.

I'm not saying it was a huge push but it was definitely a foul in my book so if you are going to go through every incident forensically then you need to take everything into account.

So instead of getting a penalty and a black card for Enright it might have been a free out to Kerry. Since you got the penalty and scored I would say that it worked out fair enough in the end.

wow there Sheehy,  lets slow that down a biteen now. How did the ref see it is the point, he seen the incident as a penalty, has to be a card sin e, yellow or balck who cares , has to be one or the other, it wasnt because the dirty rotten meath f**ker yellowed out of it because it was bath time for enright . Even up the Keegan technicality is all it was, you know it, we know it everybody knows it and pat mcanneany knows it ( he had a nice seat at croker on sunday beside his buddy from Kerry)

thats a black card right there

[Crete Boom]

One golden rule I have is never, ever put the boot in the aftermath of a game if you win but, jesus, some of you lads are making it hard  I get that you are pissed off at the ref but stop having a go at us because of that.

I was watching the game as a Kerry fan. You watched it as a Mayo fan. Practically every decision that went against us I could question. You (obviously!!) are the same. There were periods, especially in the first half where, it seemed we only had to touch a Mayoman and he got a free.

I also want to put the record straight on one thing on the Enright penalty since ye are complaining about it so much.... Remember when they were Jostling before the ball dropped ? Enright was facing toward his own goal and couldn't see the ball..well, there was a clear push by O'Connor on Enright right before he got that ball.  That push did three things,it allowed O'Connor to gather the ball, unbalanced Enright and gave him the split second to get away forcing Enright to pull him down.

I'm not saying it was a huge push but it was definitely a foul in my book so if you are going to go through every incident forensically then you need to take everything into account.

So instead of getting a penalty and a black card for Enright it might have been a free out to Kerry. Since you got the penalty and scored I would say that it worked out fair enough in the end.

wow there Sheehy,  lets slow that down a biteen now. How did the ref see it is the point, he seen the incident as a penalty, has to be a card sin e, yellow or balck who cares , has to be one or the other, it wasnt because the dirty rotten meath f**ker yellowed out of it because it was bath time for enright . Even up the Keegan technicality is all it was, you know it, we know it everybody knows it and pat mcanneany knows it ( he had a nice seat at croker on sunday beside his buddy from Kerry)

Probably and this shows up ( along with the introduction of the black card) a problem that has been brewing for a few years now.
We need to have a serious look at how the rule book is interpreted by the refs , how the refs themselves are trained and kept upskilled and how the appeals process actually works ( some consistency in decisions would be nice).