Future of Hurling ??

[johnneycool]

Seafoid,
  just think, your man Maher from Loughrea could get a call up for Galway if the cards are rescinded, he'd have a free reign in the new found manliness of hurling.

Eddie Keher wouldn't be long changing his mind if JJ Delaney was lying in the back of the goals after Johnny Maher had been manly with him.

[Milltown Row2]

 You are of course Johnney relating to this lovely scene lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ0_P0LpCFM

[deiseach]

I've read a few articles welcoming the debate. Screw that. I wish there was a hack out there with the courage to say that Eddie Keher, while one of the true legends of the game, is talking absolute rot. They won't though because if you think the bout of knicker-twisting that took place when King Henry got his marching orders was a sight to behold, you ain't seen nothing until you've seen the reaction should anyone dare contradict Eddie.

[Zulu]

Cork chief calls on counties to shoot down 'Nash motion'
Tuesday, February 18, 2014

Cork GAA chairman Bob Ryan has launched a withering attack on the "Anthony Nash motion", questioning whether the GAA want to turn hurling into golf.

By John Fogarty
A motion from the playing rules committee will be voted on at Saturday's Congress making it illegal for a player to advance the ball deliberately passed the position where a free, penalty or sideline is to be struck from.

Ryan believes Cork goalkeeper Nash has been singled out for his success in converting two close-range frees in last year's All-Ireland finals.

Cork will strenuously oppose the motion in Croke Park and are urging counties to do likewise. "I would hope hurling people especially would see how nonsensical this motion is," said Ryan. "This one possible rule change would alter more than just how 20-metre frees and penalties are taken and I don't think it would be advantageous for the game. In hurling you must strike the ball using a forward motion. So if you win a 65 would it now become a 70? Maybe they want to change it to golf, I don't know. Maybe they now want people teeing up the ball!"

Ryan was taken aback by how the GAA have been so quick to react in an attempt to clearly neutralise Nash's style. "It is disappointing. I'm absolutely amazed that this attempt to change the rule is being made in view of the fact that 2013, by everybody's agreement, was the best year in the history of hurling. One of the highlights was Anthony Nash going up to take his frees. Now, for some strange reason, an attempt is being made to change. It defies logic."

At the Cork board's monthly meeting last week, Ryan suggested the rule change be debated at the hurling forum spoken of by GAA President Liam O'Neill.

He said he has had no feedback from Croke Park on the idea. "I don't know what their intentions are. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me," he said about the motion. "I think the thing to do now rather than go down the road of tinkering with hurling on a willy-nilly basis is to talk in the proper forum mentioned by the president and whatever needs to be rectified, do it, and then leave the game alone."

At the weekend, Clare boss Davy Fitzgerald stressed the importance for the motion to pass on the grounds of safety for players on the goal-line.

Former Cork defender Diarmuid O'Sullivan last week described the motion as "farcical". Speaking last month, ex-Wexford netminder Damien Fitzhenry felt it discriminated against Nash.

Prior to news of the playing rules committee discussing the rule change, former Clare goalkeeper Seamus Durack told this newspaper Nash's style had to be stamped out.

He said: "I'm not getting at Anthony who's a wonderful goalkeeper, but it's not right being allowed to throw the ball seven yards in front of you. It's a pure joke and must be stopped."

Irish Examiner

Is this what we're doing now? Changing the rules to prevent the evolution of the game?  Nothing good ever comes out of changing the rules in response to isolated events.  Who can forget the unbelievably stupid decision to experiment with abolishing the opening clash and replace it with a puckout in the league, all because of one single incident in a game in the previous year.

If every penalty or short range free becomes unstoppable and goals become guaranteed then by all means adjust the rules or move the ball back a bit, but FFS wait until it becomes a problem!

Disagree entirely, this isn't one incident it's been something that has always been there but Nash has developed a style where the ball is now even closer when the ball is struck. It is only a matter of time before others manage to successfully throw the ball up even closer until a '21 yard' free becomes a joke term because it is actually being struck about 10 yards away. This is something that needs to be addressed now or else it will cause problems, it is already. People who defend this as being a skill are talking nonsense, just because something might take a bit of practice to do doesn't mean it should be allowed.

[Bord na Mona man]

The only thing wrong with the current rules is that several of them are being ignored. The obvious ones like steps, charging, hands on opponents, thrown handpasses, red cards for striking and a few others

The debate should be, do we want to draft a new set of rules reflective of the current game and how it has evolved that would actually be adhered to, or do we want to put into print a charter that allows referees the leniency to apply certain ones at certain times (a bit likely rugby) depending on the circumstances. It might end up being an advantage rule with no limits, but at least it would give the referees clarity on their duties.

I don't particularly care which option is taken btw, but I find these debates rarely have much honesty. At least Eddie Keher is being honest, if somewhat wrong-headed. He has proposed something tangible rather than simply spouting guff about common sense and letting the game flow and expecting that to be good enough.

[johnneycool]

The only thing wrong with the current rules is that several of them are being ignored. The obvious ones like steps, charging, hands on opponents, thrown handpasses, red cards for striking and a few others

The debate should be, do we want to draft a new set of rules reflective of the current game and how it has evolved that would actually be adhered to, or do we want to put into print a charter that allows referees the leniency to apply certain ones at certain times (a bit likely rugby) depending on the circumstances. It might end up being an advantage rule with no limits, but at least it would give the referees clarity on their duties.

I don't particularly care which option is taken btw, but I find these debates rarely have much honesty. At least Eddie Keher is being honest, if somewhat wrong-headed. He has proposed something tangible rather than simply spouting guff about common sense and letting the game flow and expecting that to be good enough.

Handpassing in its current form is now a joke.

[Zulu]

As far as I can see Eddie is proposing that you don't get sent off unless you seriously harm another player. Eddie has come out with just about the maddest proposal that I can recall in any sport. There were two blatant frontal shoulders in the league over the weekend, the one on Aidan Walsh and the other in the Clare game (can't recall who) and both were caused not by being mistimed but by a total disregard for their opponent. This is what hurling is becoming because rules are not being applied so lads are doing what they want.

[deiseach]

I don't particularly care which option is taken btw, but I find these debates rarely have much honesty. At least Eddie Keher is being honest, if somewhat wrong-headed. He has proposed something tangible rather than simply spouting guff about common sense and letting the game flow and expecting that to be good enough.

I think you are being too generous to Eddie Keher. Honesty is all well and good, but we're not going to get very far if the terms of the debate are dictated by extreme ideas. How can you have a proper discussion with a man who has a fantasy view of what hurling was like in days of yore?

[Rossfan]

There's little need for referees in hurling either, especially if they're going round sending off managers' sons. Sure the buck on the sideline could keep the score and let the lads on the pitch get on with their "manliness".
Looking at the NHL games over the weekend it seems the dunt in the back to knock down a lad about to pick the ball the ball is legal as is the man with the ball catching a would be tackler round the neck and wrestling him out of the way.

Christ you have a massive hang up about hurling and how its officiated

No - just amazed at what is let go in it - especially the potentially dangerous things. And the hypocrisy of the pundits of course who never see anything wrong. Probably a sign of the insecurity of the minority game and its adherents.
As for the one handed throws that now go for handpasses.......  etc etc

[Canalman]

Sliotar is far too light/ small  also imo. Point scoring is just far too easy.

Apart from that  the game is just fine.

However, have noticed a bit of recklessness in the tackle that wasn't there before faceguards became the norm . Players used to be alot more careful in protecting themselves and not endangering their opponents .

[Milltown Row2]

There's little need for referees in hurling either, especially if they're going round sending off managers' sons. Sure the buck on the sideline could keep the score and let the lads on the pitch get on with their "manliness".
Looking at the NHL games over the weekend it seems the dunt in the back to knock down a lad about to pick the ball the ball is legal as is the man with the ball catching a would be tackler round the neck and wrestling him out of the way.

Christ you have a massive hang up about hurling and how its officiated

No - just amazed at what is let go in it - especially the potentially dangerous things. And the hypocrisy of the pundits of course who never see anything wrong. Probably a sign of the insecurity of the minority game and its adherents.
As for the one handed throws that now go for handpasses.......  etc etc

It's down to the referee, I'm very particular with handpasses, they can be very hard to spot (as a referee) I was on the end of some very bad decisions myself when managing our senior team at Croke, I thought that the handpasses the Kilkenny team did that day were borderline, I spoke to the referee also and he was happy enough with them, interpretation works for you and against you at times.

In the main there isn't much wrong with the rules of hurling if the referee deals with the fundamentals early on, blowing for 5/6 steps in the first 5/10 mins usually knocks it on the head, early pulls and yellow given knocks it on the head and so on, the players generally cop on and play on, of course there are times when the referee will miss something and times when he'll call for a foul that no one sees. It happens in every sport just ask the Liverpool boys about the Arsenal game!!

I see nothing wrong with the rules in hurling, I'm a player (both codes) and a referee again just my opinion

[deiseach]

In the main there isn't much wrong with the rules of hurling if the referee deals with the fundamentals early on, blowing for 5/6 steps in the first 5/10 mins usually knocks it on the head, early pulls and yellow given knocks it on the head and so on, the players generally cop on and play on

Exactly the kind of thing that brings out the 'let the game flow' crowd.

of course there are times when the referee will miss something and times when he'll call for a foul that no one sees. It happens in every sport just ask the Liverpool boys about the Arsenal game!!

Let's not

[Bord na Mona man]

I don't particularly care which option is taken btw, but I find these debates rarely have much honesty. At least Eddie Keher is being honest, if somewhat wrong-headed. He has proposed something tangible rather than simply spouting guff about common sense and letting the game flow and expecting that to be good enough.

I think you are being too generous to Eddie Keher. Honesty is all well and good, but we're not going to get very far if the terms of the debate are dictated by extreme ideas. How can you have a proper discussion with a man who has a fantasy view of what hurling was like in days of yore?

I would take on board the school of thought that foul play is far more likely to punished on the scoreboard in hurling than in football. Any offence up to 90 or 100 metres away from your goal can result in a score conceded. That area of the field where you can commit a tactical foul is small. In football you can pull and drag beyond 45 metres without the same risk. The  black card seems to be a filter to catch this.

So fouling in hurling isn't as clear a path to success, so there may be a valid debate on how and when cards should be issued.
The proposal to remove cards for non-injuring fouls as suggested puts no barrier on repetitive fouling and is a bad idea in my view.

What is telling is that Keher is viewing the world through the eyes of the fouler as opposed to the foulee, bristling at how referees treat them and the like. Widening the debate to hear from players would be interesting. If the question was asked, I'm sure most players would rather not get fouled every time they go near the ball. Regardless of what frees and cards were issued. I feel the well has already been poisoned for this point of view in the "man's game" that hurling is.

[Milltown Row2]

In the main there isn't much wrong with the rules of hurling if the referee deals with the fundamentals early on, blowing for 5/6 steps in the first 5/10 mins usually knocks it on the head, early pulls and yellow given knocks it on the head and so on, the players generally cop on and play on

Exactly the kind of thing that brings out the 'let the game flow' crowd.

of course there are times when the referee will miss something and times when he'll call for a foul that no one sees. It happens in every sport just ask the Liverpool boys about the Arsenal game!!

Let's not

We could go to a hundred club games and not really have much to talk about but when a game is televised and all areas are scrutinised by pundits with the ability to see tackles, steps taken, blatant fouls and other going ons (due to the 25/30 cameras at the game) then yes it does look like the referee has lost the run of himself, the referee has only one look at it, in that split second he blows or doesn't blow because he's not a 100% sure.

We talk about it being one of the fastest fields sports in the world with great skill and bravery, give the poor referee a chance to get the majority of the decisions right, he's only human after all

[Rossfan]

In the main there isn't much wrong with the rules of hurling if the referee deals with the fundamentals early on, blowing for 5/6 steps in the first 5/10 mins usually knocks it on the head, early pulls and yellow given knocks it on the head and so on, the players generally cop on and play on

Exactly the kind of thing that brings out the 'let the game flow' crowd.

Pity Milltown couldn't get to Ref a few Inter County games.
But of course "hurlingman" won't have that because Mill is from bloody Antrim and wouldn't understand the game.