Championship Draw 2014

[Rossfan]

Ahhh stop Houndín.
Don't be taking away the Chips off the shoulders of the Ulster bies.
They'd never be able to handle having nothing to (Ty)moan about

[Fuzzman]

Hound do you think having home advantage makes much of a difference?
Dublin play virtually all their games in Croker and very rarely ever have to go the back door route so ye have virtually no experience of that yourselves.

Kerry played all their 3 Munster games in Killarney last year. The year before they beat Tipp in Semple but the lost to Cork in Páirc Uí Chaoimh.
Can you imagine if they had to travel to Ballybofey or Armagh in the first round? Do you think they'd put more effort into their fitness levels and intensity for such a game?
Do you think if they came away from such places with a win, would it be likely to have many injuries? Of course we can't say for sure but my point is that for years I've watched Dublin and Kerry waltz their way through their province without much of a fight from their opponents. I went this year with a Dublin mate to the Dublin v Westmeath match. Of course we expected a Dublin win but I said to my mate that at least in Ulster teams like Antrim or Fermanagh will at least come out with a bit of spirit and fight. They'll try to rough ye up a bit and usually cause ye some problems. The only Leinster team I've saw do this is usually Meath or maybe Wexford the odd time but as statistics show Dublin get to the final year after year and rarely seem to get any of their star players injured.

All I'm saying it that Leinster teams usually have to play 3 or 4 games to win Leinster. Ulster teams usually the same. Why should Kerry & Cork, who already have an unfair advantage as most of their opponents are more interested in hurling, get a bye in the first round and be kept apart in the semis?
If Kerry were to lose to Tipp in the first round then they would go into round 1 of the qualifiers and its a much longer route to the AI quarters from there with much more away matches. Suddenly playing teams like Longford, Derry or Down in their own back yard doesn't seem to easy.
Quite often round 4 qualifiers are played in Croker as a double header and so the advantage is handed back to the bigger fish.

[Hound]

A couple of different points there Fuzzman.

When Dublin played league games in Parnell Park, the Croke Park advantage was very small if any. Or at least any small advantage there was, was shared among all Leinster teams. ie when Kildare and Meath were as good as or better than us, they played in Croke Park as often as we did.

No question that since we've played our league games in Croke Park, its helped us in championship. In particular with bedding in new players. League is now very good preparation for championship. Playing in Parnell Park is as far removed from playing in Croker as you can get (albeit fans genuinely miss the great atmosphere that was almost always present in PP for league games).

I think Dublin should definitely play first round matches in provincial grounds in Leinster. I would place one caveat on it, it should be restricted to Portlaoise, Tullamore, Nowlan Pk, Dr Cullen Pk and Wexford Pk as I believe these are the grounds that can cater for 20k plus.
Dublin used always play a round or two outside Dublin through the 70s, 80s, 90s and (bar 1981 v Laois) we went nearly 3 decades unbeaten in Leinster grounds outside Croke Park (Kildare, Offaly, Laois, Meath, Westmeath all beat us in Croker at least once). Albeit logically, you would think the opposition would have a better chance outside Croke Pk.

Back to Kerry and Cork - they're in Munster and that's just a fact of life (unless you want to disband all provinces, which is a different debate). When seeded they've a handy route to QF or R4 of the qualifiers. But when they get there are they as prepared as they'd like to be? The games against the other Munster teams are almost completely useless in terms of preparation. Personally I think its better off for the rest of us that they're kept apart until the final, because they are more likely to be undercooked when the big games come along. But any advantage/disadvantage from seeding is very marginal.

Also from a neutral point of view when there is seeding we get a Munster final worth watching and we avoid having a complete walkover match in R4 of the qualifiers.

[Fuzzman]

I think Dublin should definitely play first round matches in provincial grounds in Leinster. I would place one caveat on it, it should be restricted to Portlaoise, Tullamore, Nowlan Pk, Dr Cullen Pk and Wexford Pk as I believe these are the grounds that can cater for 20k plus.
Dublin used always play a round or two outside Dublin through the 70s, 80s, 90s and (bar 1981 v Laois) we went nearly 3 decades unbeaten in Leinster grounds outside Croke Park (Kildare, Offaly, Laois, Meath, Westmeath all beat us in Croker at least once). Albeit logically, you would think the opposition would have a better chance outside Croke Pk.

I think you're missing my point Hound.
You are saying that it should be only in these grounds as they allow 20K+. The reason you're saying that I presume is that a good crowd would come down from Dublin to support their team and enjoy the day out.
My point is that this is what balances out the smaller team v the bigger county team. It's like a FA cup match with Spurs going to play a non league outfit with a small capacity. They make it a hostile atmosphere as not many of the away fans can make attend.
Tyrone went to Donegal last year and McGuinness knew that them holding on to home advantage was a major asset to their mental preparation. They had to pull out all the stops to get the ground ready. It's a brutal place to get in and out of and the talk months before the game was there wouldn't be enough tickets for those Tyrone fans that wanted to go. This belief was absorbed by a lot of fans who didn't even then ask for tickets and so it ended up that their was a huge Donegal crowd that were very hostile and out in force to support their glorious All Ireland winning team. 1-0 to McGuinness even before the game started.

All I'm saying is that in my eyes Dublin, Kerry & Cork don't usually have to worry about such problems. Often their hardest matches are actually away league games as I'd say ye will find next year as reigning AI champs.

It's one thing going to play Wicklow or Carlow away but if you had a first round game v Meath in Navan or Kildare in Newbridge would you be as confident?
Kerry rarely win in Páirc Uí Chaoimh. Yes Munster is the way it is but can you understand that for us in Ulster where more teams often play their first round games at home, then its not a fair playing field. It's dog eat dog and so by giving Kerry & Cork another game off helps them in their quest to peak for the late summer. It's one less game for Star not to get sent off or for Gooch not to get injured.

I wonder will we get another battle of Omagh next year?

[Michael Schmeichal]

I think you're missing my point Hound.
You are saying that it should be only in these grounds as they allow 20K+. The reason you're saying that I presume is that a good crowd would come down from Dublin to support their team and enjoy the day out.
My point is that this is what balances out the smaller team v the bigger county team. It's like a FA cup match with Spurs going to play a non league outfit with a small capacity. They make it a hostile atmosphere as not many of the away fans can make attend.
Tyrone went to Donegal last year and McGuinness knew that them holding on to home advantage was a major asset to their mental preparation. They had to pull out all the stops to get the ground ready. It's a brutal place to get in and out of and the talk months before the game was there wouldn't be enough tickets for those Tyrone fans that wanted to go. This belief was absorbed by a lot of fans who didn't even then ask for tickets and so it ended up that their was a huge Donegal crowd that were very hostile and out in force to support their glorious All Ireland winning team. 1-0 to McGuinness even before the game started.

All I'm saying is that in my eyes Dublin, Kerry & Cork don't usually have to worry about such problems. Often their hardest matches are actually away league games as I'd say ye will find next year as reigning AI champs.

It's one thing going to play Wicklow or Carlow away but if you had a first round game v Meath in Navan or Kildare in Newbridge would you be as confident?
Kerry rarely win in Páirc Uí Chaoimh. Yes Munster is the way it is but can you understand that for us in Ulster where more teams often play their first round games at home, then its not a fair playing field. It's dog eat dog and so by giving Kerry & Cork another game off helps them in their quest to peak for the late summer. It's one less game for Star not to get sent off or for Gooch not to get injured.

I wonder will we get another battle of Omagh next year?

All the points you make are fair and as a Dub I would have no problem playing Meath in Navan or Kildare in Newbridge. However if for example we played Kildare in Newbridge  only 6000 people could attend the match rather than the 60,000 that would attend in Croke Park. Thats a huge drop in revenue. Leinster Championship attendance money is divided among all Leinster Counties so therefore every Leinster County would suffer. For the above to happen these Leinster Counties would have to vote for it and its very hard to see that happening. This won't stop them moaning about Dublin having an unfair advantage but ultimately the decision to change the system is and always has been in their hands.