10 Years Ago Today. Tyrone 0-12 Armagh 0-9.

[Throw ball]

And don't forget Paul Galvin throwing a water bottle

Or trying to hit the water boy Stephen O'Neill nearly crippled.

[supersarsfields]

Firstly, I have to say that it is promising that after ten years some Tyrone posters (nrico2006, Fuzzman) can accept that Marsden was not acting maliciously and that Jordan was the antagonist and thus culpable for the incident in question.

Secondly, I would not be of the school of thought that Armagh would have definitely won that day if Diarmaid had have stayed on. I think on the day that the better team won. What I will say, is that your maiden victory was in my eyes, completely and totally tainted by Philip Jordan's unnecessary behaviour that day (diving is the preserve of over-paid soccer playing fannies - as is clapping a red card ie Gormley)

Finally, on the incident itself. To strike someone, normally you approach them and lean into them with the momentum of doing so being used to hurt them. Even a Tyrone poster kindly put a picture of the incident up. The man with the clenched fist is Jordan. Marsden doesn't even have a finger on him. Both players look as if they've been knocked back; Marsden from Jordan running at him and Jordan from his split second decision to dive and have an opposing player sent off.

This argument reminds me a lot of the Unionists, they argue that a black crow is white, when the whole world knows it's black. Is it not telling that Tyrone folk see things differently than 31 other counties?

Going by this board back in 2003 I'll think you'll find that's not true. From my memory it was split between people saying Marsden was correctly sent of and others arguing he wasn't. It was far from 31 counties thinking he was hard done by. Bit closer to 50 50.

[blanketattack]

Firstly, I have to say that it is promising that after ten years some Tyrone posters (nrico2006, Fuzzman) can accept that Marsden was not acting maliciously and that Jordan was the antagonist and thus culpable for the incident in question.

Secondly, I would not be of the school of thought that Armagh would have definitely won that day if Diarmaid had have stayed on. I think on the day that the better team won. What I will say, is that your maiden victory was in my eyes, completely and totally tainted by Philip Jordan's unnecessary behaviour that day (diving is the preserve of over-paid soccer playing fannies - as is clapping a red card ie Gormley)

Finally, on the incident itself. To strike someone, normally you approach them and lean into them with the momentum of doing so being used to hurt them. Even a Tyrone poster kindly put a picture of the incident up. The man with the clenched fist is Jordan. Marsden doesn't even have a finger on him. Both players look as if they've been knocked back; Marsden from Jordan running at him and Jordan from his split second decision to dive and have an opposing player sent off.

This argument reminds me a lot of the Unionists, they argue that a black crow is white, when the whole world knows it's black. Is it not telling that Tyrone folk see things differently than 31 other counties?

Going by this board back in 2003 I'll think you'll find that's not true. From my memory it was split between people saying Marsden was correctly sent of and others arguing he wasn't. It was far from 31 counties thinking he was hard done by. Bit closer to 50 50.

Anyone I've ever talked about that incident with, which would include folk from about 6 or 7 counties, there's been a consensus, Marsden was 100% in the right, Jordan was 100% in the wrong and the sending off was 100% undeserved.

[supersarsfields]

Fair enough. I'd have the opposite experience, but I suppose that's understandable considering where I'm from. 

[Fuzzman]

I am getting a bit bored now with this thread but I have noticed not many Armagh posters will come on and say what exactly they think DID happen.
I mean most of ye say Jordan ran at Marsden and then Jordan dived.

I'm curious then how many of ye will say that Marsden did strike out at him and there was definite contact?
Was it with a closed fist or an open hand?

Was there no contact at all like general lee is saying? - "Didn't lay a finger on him"
I would have thought if someone was coming charging at you then you would put your two hands out in front of you to deflect them away from you so they fall to the ground or something like that.
From my memory,  Marsden lifts his fist up and swings out at him. I would like to see it again though to remind myself.

It really is amazing how a county like Armagh who for years played the game on the edge and often grinded teams down using their physicality, that some of their fans are still blaming Jordan for them losing that AI.
Would you say Tadg Kennelly's AI medal is tainted as well then when he admitted to taking out the man that day. It sounds like it was a lot more pre-mediated that the Jordan incident.

Blanket, did these guys think there was contact?

[nrico2006]

I tried to find a video of the incident online the otherday but could only get a camera angle which missed the actual incident.

[BennyCake]

Fuzzman, I stated a few pages ago what happened in the Jordan/Marsden incident.

You use the word "physicality". I suppose Armagh were a physically built team then. But using your strength to "grind down" a team is not against the rules of the game.

It's not all about Jordan feigning injury, it's that the officials were conned by his actions. I admit Tyrone probably played the better "football" (not much football was played, it was a poor game) that day, but it's not always that the better team wins. Even with 14 men, had Stevie scored that goal, we could've forced a replay, or even won it. So, I don't think you can say, ah sure Tyrone would've won anyway. Football is a strange game, and the better team can sometimes end up being heartbroken by a late lapse in concentration or flukey goal.

We could continue this conversation until 2023, the fact is I, like all Armagh fans, believe Marsden shouldn't have been sent off. Tyrone fans, most of them anyway, would say otherwise. Although I do welcome posts saying that Jordan was the instigator, he made a meal of it, what was Marsden supposed to do? etc.

By the way, I do think Kennelley's medal is tainted. I'm sure he doesn't care though, and neither does Jordan.

[tonto1888]

Bennycake,

Looking over your posts through out this thread you really need to see some sense. The game was 10 years ago and it produced 10 years of dominance of Tyrone over Armagh yeilding 3 All - Irelands. Show a little graciousness would you and admit that Tyrone were full value for their success not because marsden got sent off, not because they cheated their way to 3 All-Irelands, not because so and so did this or that. The reality is that Tyrone won their 3 All-Ireland because they had a talented group of players who were the best in Ireland in the years that they won their All-Ireland titles. All the rest does come accross as nothing but bitterness.

I assume you could also show a bit of grace and admit that if a bit of luck had have went Armagh's way they might have won in 2005 and we would be sitting at 2 apiece. Still this is still old hat. It is next year that counts and I think Tyrone's chances of winning Sam next year are not much better than Armagh's.

Luck had very little to do with canavans ability to hit frees under pressure or Joe Kernans inability to see the value of keeping McGeeney on the pitch.  I have already stated my view that Armagh underachieved and should have won at least another All-Ireland.  2005 was not the year that they missed out on as Tyrone were playing their best football. Armaghs 2006 defeat to the mighty Fermanagh was the All-ireland they should have won

wasnt that 2004. Also, Paul McGranbes inability to pick a ball from the ground cost us in that semifinal too

[mackers]

I am getting a bit bored now with this thread but I have noticed not many Armagh posters will come on and say what exactly they think DID happen.
I mean most of ye say Jordan ran at Marsden and then Jordan dived.

I'm curious then how many of ye will say that Marsden did strike out at him and there was definite contact?
Was it with a closed fist or an open hand?

Not many Armagh posters have contributed to the thread because it's old ground now and it has been debated to death over the last 10 years.  There has only been one Armagh poster who has tried to argue with the usual Tyrone posters on this thread and found it to be a waste of time.  I appreciate you are trying to genuine here Fuzzman but too many of your county colleagues want to turn it into the normal bunfight.  Suffice to say it is really only Tyrone people that put any defence up for Jordan. 

[BennyHarp]

If i was being serious about the incident, I'd admit that both parties where to blame - but to say it was 100% Jordan and 0% Marsden is just nonsense. Yes Jordan ran over to him and was probably the instigator (however, it is unclear what Marsden was doing to upset Jordan so much - I've never seen Jordan react like that before or since that incident, in what turned out to be a very long career spanning alot of high profile matches) but Marsen lifted his hands into Jordan's face. If Jordan was rushing at him at the threatening pace claimed by Armagh lads on here, any impact on his face would have caused him to go down, so I do not agree that he feigned injury - therefore in my opinion he didnt cheat, it was the refs call to send Marsden off. If you claim Marsden did absolutely nothing wrong, then in my opinion this is just blind loyalty. I may accept that each were 50-50 to blame, but I'm amazed that never, in 10 years, have i heard an Armagh person, in any way, apportion any blame to Marsden. This is why as a Tyrone man,  I will always back Jordan in this incident - call it blind loyalty if you wish.

[ONeill]

[SkillfulBill]

That's the spit of Big Paul Grimely.

[nrico2006]

That's the spit of Big Paul Grimely.

Actually laughing my head off because it is his double.  Good spot.

[Fuzzman]

Was that him as a baby with his wee hat on or after he heard Brolly's mouthful about him last year.

He's not as green as some managers though.

[general_lee]

Is it not telling that Tyrone folk see things differently than 31 other counties?

Most other counties don't give a rats arss about it.  Armagh people have being crying on about it for ten years and I am yet to hear anyone from the county call Marsden out for lifting his hands in an All-Ireland final and falling for Jordans gamesmanship.  Marsden was experienced enough to know better and if it had  have been a Tyrone man sent off I would have been livid with him for reducing us to 14 men. All this agro towards Jordan over the years only serves to excuse Marsden from his guilt in helping Tyrone to their first All-Ireland win. Thanks Dairmuid for your contribution to our success.

Anyone I have ever spoken to outside of Tyrone has sided with Marsden.

The agro is fully deserved by the way. A blatant act of cheating that tainted Tyrone's maiden victory. So well done Phillip on making a dick of yourself that day. That's what you'll be remembered for in that game.

Also from your last sentence you seem to think the incident itself was the winning and losing of the game, which most Tyrone folk deny (and I agree believe it or not).

I'm curious then how many of ye will say that Marsden did strike out at him and there was definite contact?
Was it with a closed fist or an open hand?

Was there no contact at all like general lee is saying? - "Didn't lay a finger on him"
I would have thought if someone was coming charging at you then you would put your two hands out in front of you to deflect them away from you so they fall to the ground or something like that.
From my memory,  Marsden lifts his fist up and swings out at him. I would like to see it again though to remind myself.

You are now mincing my words. What I said was that if you look at the picture that was posted a few pages back, Marsden doesn't have a hand on Jordan, which is clear for all to see. It is Jordan who has the clenched fist.

Of course contact was made. Jordan ran at him like a deranged idiot, and Diarmaid put his hands up. Both of them. He didn't swing. I was at the game and remember it clear as day. I have never seen someone swing with both hands (or fists) simultaneously.

Whether he caught him in the face is irrelevant because it was an instinctive reaction and there was no malice, unlike Jordan. The subsequent theatrics led to White, who did not see the incident nor consulted his officials, sending Marsden off.

I must run at a few boys some night outside Hagan's to see what reaction I get