GAA All-Ireland vs GPA All-Ireland

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Hardy is correct to air this issue, it'll be upon us as a fait accompli before we know it, having sleepwalked the whole way in.

I don't trust the GPA's motives, and it would appear that that's an almost universal consensus – the suspicions are that it really is after pay-for-play, and for the elite few only.  As AZOffaly said, whether the proposed payments are actual reimbursements for monies disbursed in the pursuit of county duties (with receipts to prove it), or an allowance/grant to cover all potential expenses (non-receipted), is a critical distinction; if it's the former then that's fine, but the latter is the first step to professionalism for it will already be de facto professionalism.

And if it is de facto professionalism, we are all faced with a choice: are we prepared to cut our best county players loose in order to protect the amateur ethos of the organisation? Or would we be prepared to let pay-for-play/play-for-work permeate the whole organisation, as it surely would? 

Personally, I would let our best county players go in order to protect the very valuable amateur ethos of the GAA.  And were this to happen across the whole country, what we could well end up with would be a 'GPA All-Ireland' (just as there is a GPA Team of the Year), which would comprise only a subset of the current All-Ireland counties – only those counties with a critical mass of players good enough would be eligible.   The players in this elite would still play with their clubs, but it would be play-for-nothing, gratis, and that's why it would seem to work, at least initially.

But it should be resisted at all costs – the GAA can survive without this elite, but it will not survive professionalism, IMHO.

[realredhandfan]

I think its important this message is loud and clearly sent out. so im in.

[kilkennycat2004]

Also totally with you Fear ón Srath Bán

[Turfsmoke]

 I'd be with you re a GPA All-Ireland.

It would be the first virtual GAA game - no venue, no volunteer back-up, no one attending, but probably huge media interest given that in the Irish sports media the scale of their interest in somethnig seems to be in inverse proportion to the interest of spectators to the same thing.

Anyway, like it or not, it's on its way after Nicky Brennan's (and it has to be down to him) disgraceful sell-out re the grants issue.

What's that the Wexford men always said about Kilkenny men pissing on the powder?

[Hound]

Ah cop on for fooks sake.

Is the GAA paying the players? NO

Will the GAA start paying the players anytime soon? NO

If there was a vote at Congress about the GAA paying players, what would the yes vote be? 5%? Probably less!

If pretty much everyone is against the GAA paying players for playing, how the hell is it going to come in?

The GPA have every right to exist, and they have every right to ask for whatever they want for intercounty players, including pay-for-play, but they havent every right to get everything they ask for. If the grants come in it will be a huge victory and enormous credit will be due to the GPA for bringing in some reward for players without impinging on the GAA amateur ethos.

[Gnevin]

Ah cop on for fooks sake.

Is the GAA paying the players? NO

Will the GAA start paying the players anytime soon? NO

If there was a vote at Congress about the GAA paying players, what would the yes vote be? 5%? Probably less!

If pretty much everyone is against the GAA paying players for playing, how the hell is it going to come in?

The GPA have every right to exist, and they have every right to ask for whatever they want for intercounty players, including pay-for-play, but they havent every right to get everything they ask for. If the grants come in it will be a huge victory and enormous credit will be due to the GPA for bringing in some reward for players without impinging on the GAA amateur ethos.

Yeah what he said

[fearglasmor]

Ah cop on for fooks sake.

Is the GAA paying the players? NO

Wht sort of hypocritical shite is that ?  Like,  go to England for an abortion if you want, we dont allow it here.
The GAA, allegedly,  is supporting the payment of inter county players, without it ever being discussed. And getting the tax payer to do it for them, what sort of cute hoorism is that.
If the govt have a few million spare to splash out on sport I would rather they distributed it to national scholls around the country. And if my interests lay in the arts for example, I would wholly agrieved at my taxes funding guys playing an amateur  game they love.

On the question posed in the poll, it won't be an issue. If I was being paid to play intercounty football or hurling do you really think I would be putting my career at risk by playing with a bunch of amateurs as well. Fug off.

[aontroim abu]

FFS now Brennan has opened up a real can of  bitches worms. now the ladee footballers want their cut of the grants.

No payments to anyone please. guess which way i voted

[Guillem2]

Ladies footballers want paid? Your having a laugh! If the GPA want paid let the feckers feck off and start their own association for organising games.

[Lone Shark]

The ladies want, and does anyone here honestly believe that if they challenge this is a European court they won't get it?

Is the GAA paying the players? NO

Will the GAA start paying the players anytime soon? NO

If there was a vote at Congress about the GAA paying players, what would the yes vote be? 5%? Probably less!

If pretty much everyone is against the GAA paying players for playing, how the hell is it going to come in?

Hound, here's how it's going to come in. Sometime down the road the Government will need to cut corners - something we haven't had to do in over a decade. When €3bn or so needs to be cut from the budget, subsidising the GAA to pay players will look like a very easy target. This may be as many as ten years away, it may be as few as three. I priced up odds on a housing crash there recently, and some very prominent figures were very quick to back all the worst scenarios. Some unpleasant material is destined for the fan very quickly.

So what happens when the Government pulls out of the deal? Do you honestly believe the GPA will just say "That was grand while it lasted, back to normal then" or will the make demands that the GAA make up the shortfall? Professionalism is like preganancy, there is no being "a little bit pregnant". Players will demand, players will strike, and supported by an Indo led media, who is not interested in learning the names of the second string players of counties, they'll just want Sean Cavanagh, Henry Shefflin and Sean Óg back, they'll win. Of course that will lead to extra big games to finance it by way of Setanta pay per view events, which of course will be closely followed by the realisation that the Kerrys Dublins and Corks of this world are revenue generating, while counties like Carlow, Fermanagh and Sligo aren't.

In the meantime some Sean Mulryan/JP McManus like character decides he'd like to buy an All Ireland for his county. Roscommon bring in Declan Browne, Barry Owens and Mattie Forde, of course when this is challenged the lads go to the courts. The lads claim restraint of trade, which the GAA has no comeback against - all rules must be subject to overall EU law. They claim that their own county may cease to exist in the future, so in order to protect their own futures they had to move.


Hound, if you can tell me why any of the above can't happen, I'd love to hear it, because I'm trying to work out how we can advocate these grants and still have 64 intercounty hurling teams in twenty years, but I just don't see it. Not alone do I not think it likely, I don't think it possible. Just because you'll always have your intercounty team doesn't mean that others are dispensable. 

[Turfsmoke]

Lone Shark, you're spot on.

Brilliantly put.

The tragedy is we're now on that road thanks to what Nickey Brennan has overseen this week.

Leading GAA players are now to get money for being leading GAA players no matter what way Brennan and co try to dress it up.

Well at least the GAA was good while it lasted.

RIP.

[DUBSFORSAM1]

So how come there is so much objection to county players getting govt grants but there is near silence on Club managers/county managers getting paid, all the support staff being paid, club players and county players being paid on the quiet etc......
One could argue that they are being paid in kind anyway by getting free equipment, free meals, holidays, training camps, medical treatment etc.....

[fearglasmor]

I don't think it's true that there has been silence on this board regarding payments to managers. In fact it is that very practice whis is the ultimate source of this cancer.

[Lone Shark]

Nobody likes all that stuff - you may or may not have noticed that around two months ago I put up a lengthy enough post saying how all these payments to managers etc. need to be stopped for this very reason. However the difference is that once the GAA drew a line in the sand at pay for play, we always had something to defend, a front, as it were. We could carry on the fight against under the table payments, but as long as they were under the table and not sanctioned by the GAA at the highest level then they didn't create a legal issue for us.

Equally nobody here wants the players to be left out of pocket, and all the things you mention are ways to make that happen - what we don't want is for the GAA to become an employer, even if they are not the ones signing the paycheque. That brings us into a whole new realm, one where we are bound first by employment and European law, and only by GAA rules if they don't go against that.

Look, if getting rid of paid managers is what it takes, then certainly I would love that to happen, as would most, I would say. However the biggest drawback in the GAA is that counties and clubs are not good at seeing the bigger picture. It appears we all want players to be punished for violent play, until it's our own player. We all think paid managers are a bad idea until that manager is the one who makes the breakthrough for our county. Until all counties refuse to look for that illicit advantage, we have a tough fight on our hands.

[LaurelEye]

The ladies want, and does anyone here honestly believe that if they challenge this is a European court they won't get it?

And a host of other sports - hockey, basketball, AIL rugby for a start - are going to be right there after them.

And given the hoops that existing sports grant recipients have to go through to get money in terms of reaching a required level of performance, they're not going to be happy at all with money being doled out to the likes of the Cavan hurlers.

Sometime down the road the Government will need to cut corners - something we haven't had to do in over a decade. When €3bn or so needs to be cut from the budget, subsidising the GAA to pay players will look like a very easy target. This may be as many as ten years away, it may be as few as three. I priced up odds on a housing crash there recently, and some very prominent figures were very quick to back all the worst scenarios. Some unpleasant material is destined for the fan very quickly.

I wouldn't even expect it to be as long as three years away. We could be looking at months. Once the election is out of the way, all bets are off.