What - no discussion about the GAA backing pay for play?

[Hardy]

I hope you're right, Seanie, but I have my doubts. That's nearly too clever even for a GAA administration that's as clever as a fox who has just been appointed professor of cunning at Cambridge university (with apologies to Blackadder). I'd be afraid that the coyness is because they're organising a fait accompli that can't be overturned by the members/congress. Also, I'm not convinced that a decision by the government to give grants to GAA players would need a rule change if, for instance, it was in the form of an annual payment to the GPA (which already receives funds from all sorts of people) to be disbursed as it sees fit.

[magpie seanie]

Good point but if that's the case its up to the GAA to enforce its own rules. If it doesn't, we're fucked.

You are probably reading this correctly. I'm just being optimitic only to be crushed with defeat again. I'm from Sligo you know....

[fearglasmor]

if, for instance, it was in the form of an annual payment to the GPA (which already receives funds from all sorts of people) to be disbursed as it sees fit.

We are all at the disadvantage of trying to discuss something which hasn't been made public and that in itself is suspicious.
But I can't see how any grant scheme could be administered by the GPA. Would it mean only GPA members get it?
What is the cut off point for naming a panel for the year, what is the year even.
Would the county boards not have to co operate with the GPA by supplying official panels for administration.

[Hardy]

Even if it's not administered by the GPA, though, I can still imagine it being implemented without needing a rule change. If a player can get money from endorsements by virtue of his status as a player, he can surely get money from the government by the same token.

But, as you suggest, the whole thing is fraught with all sorts of implications. What sort of pressure will a county manager be under now, in deciding whether to drop somebody from the panel? Now he's effectively sacking someone from a part-time job. So managers may make the case that their (theoretically) unpaid position is untenable if their decisions are affecting people's livelihoods.

There are ways of looking at this that make it look like a proposal designed to fail, as Seanie suggests, all right. For instance, if the selection of players to panels involves an entitlement to government money, won't there have to be a transparent procedure, form-filling in triplicate and all the rest of it? The same when he's dropped. And cue the discrimination case when somebody is dropped if he perceives it's because he's from the wrong parish.

And how can the government justify these payments to individuals, as opposed to grants to the organisation? They might make the case that it's government's business to support and encourage aspects of national culture. But doing this by paying participants directly could surely be construed as discriminatory by the EU. Wouldn't it only take a Polish resident, say, (suppose he's a handball player or participates in whatever is the Polish national sport) to complain that his national culture is being discriminated against if he can't get 3,000 a year to enable his participation in his national sport.

[fearglasmor]

http://www.gaelicplayers.com/images/stories/documents/gaa-gpa_agreement.pdf


Not sure if this has been aired already, apoligies for the repeat if it has.

[LaurelEye]

RTE Radio 1 seems to be reporting that O'Donoghue has said No to the deal (though I see no mention of it on the RTE News or ireland.com websites). More details promised on the sports news with Des Cahill at 6.30.

Update: Confirmed at 5.30. The Government is willing to give extra money to the GAA for things such as the Sports Capital Fund, which would allow the GAA to divert money towards player welfare, but it is not itself willing to provide the money directly for fear of setting a precedent.

You know, some of us remember making these sort of points about precedents, etc. a long time ago on a GAABoard far, far away...

[magickingdom]

thats a pity, it really fell because everyone was going to look for these grants. if the government had any balls they would tell the rest of the sporting organisations to buzz off. the gaa is unique to ireland and deserves some special treatment.

[Hardy]

This is the first I've heard of this (on the go all day) and if it's true it's truly great news. It should be the end of the pay-for-play threat, for now, anyway, given what the GPA is said to have stated recently: I read somewhere the other day* (meant to post it here but forgot) that the GPA had stated that they would not come back to the GAA looking for money if the government rejected their grants scheme. So that's that, on the face of it, though I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the sniffing after money starts again from some other angle. And I think I know what it'll be but that's for another day.

For now, I'm inclined to think that this was a masterful piece of manoeuvring by Nicky Brennan – line up with the GPA, present a joint proposal to the government that you know will never fly, but only after extracting an undertaking from the GPA that this is it and if it fails, there's no coming back looking for it another way.

Game set and match. For now.

* Edit - just read the GAA/GPA agreement linked by fearglasmor above and the undertaking is contained in the agreement.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

This is the first I've heard of this (on the go all day) and if it's true it's truly great news. It should be the end of the pay-for-play threat, for now, anyway, given what the GPA is said to have stated recently: I read somewhere the other day (meant to post it here but forgot) that the GPA had stated that they would not come back to the GAA looking for money if the government rejected their grants scheme. So that's that, on the face of it, though I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the sniffing after money starts again from some other angle. And I think I know what it'll be but that's for another day.

For now, I'm inclined to think that this was a masterful piece of manoeuvring by Nicky Brennan – line up with the GPA, present a joint proposal to the government that you know will never fly, but only after extracting an undertaking from the GPA that this is it and if it fails, there's no coming back looking for it another way.

Game set and match. For now.

Agree Hardy, that's put the tin-hat on the whole escapade, for now at least. Go h-iontach! 

[magickingdom]

i would not be in favour of pay for play but if the gov were going to fund this like they do for some of the olympic sports with grants to individuals then it was ok imo..

[dublinfella]

thats a pity, it really fell because everyone was going to look for these grants. if the government had any balls they would tell the rest of the sporting organisations to buzz off. the gaa is unique to ireland and deserves some special treatment.

thats attitude is so ludicrous it borders on offensive.

the scheme has been in place for years essentially to subsidise olympic athletes that cant afford to give the levels of dedecation required on the prize money available without them moving overseas. the state pay the top 1% a few grand which can allow them remain full time.

its the gpa that went 'looking' for grants already available to irish international competetors. its not a GAA scheme those pesky runners and skiers were trying to fleece. 

what a bizarre interpretation of whats going on.

thats before we get onto the fact that the 'uniqueness' of the GAA is its amateruism.

this whole thing is a sad indictment of the hypocricy that pervades GAA thinking sometimes. if the GAA hand a player some money the amateur ethos is shattered. if the state hand over money its somehow ok as the organisation is still amateur despite ever intercounty player getting a wedge. piss or get off the pot lads, we either allow payment to the elite or we dont regardless of the sources. none of this wishy washy half way house shite.

if this is allowed I guarantee that all the top counties football sides will be full time professionals by virtue of subvention from the state and sponsors. Not a penny direct from the county boards but it will be them deciding who gets the largesse.

[magpie seanie]

I echo Hardy's sentiments entirely. Seems my machiavellian imagination wasn't too far off the mark.

if the state hand over money its somehow ok as the organisation is still amateur despite ever intercounty player getting a wedge.

I know that you've exhibited poor debating skills/etiquette and show all the hallmarks of a slow learner on other threads so I'll try and be clear. Read back over this thread and you'll find that most people DON'T think its ok.

[dublinfella]

I echo Hardy's sentiments entirely. Seems my machiavellian imagination wasn't too far off the mark.

if the state hand over money its somehow ok as the organisation is still amateur despite ever intercounty player getting a wedge.

I know that you've exhibited poor debating skills/etiquette and show all the hallmarks of a slow learner on other threads so I'll try and be clear. Read back over this thread and you'll find that most people DON'T think its ok.

but some do. see magic kingdoms post.

there is nothing worse than a smartarse thats wrong.

[stephenite]

but some do. see magic kingdoms post.

there is nothing worse than a smartarse thats wrong.

You're right there is nothing worse than a smartarse who's wrong - Seanie never said that everyone here think it's OK, he said most. Not all, not everyone but most. And he's right,not wrong - smartarse

[dublinfella]

but some do. see magic kingdoms post.

there is nothing worse than a smartarse thats wrong.

You're right there is nothing worse than a smartarse who's wrong - Seanie never said that everyone here think it's OK, he said most. Not all, not everyone but most. And he's right,not wrong - smartarse

for fucks sake....

I quoted magickingdom stating that he wanted the other sports to leave the GAA's scheme alone.

Im then told that my response to that mentalism is irrelevent because no-one wants this to happen.

Even though Im replying to someone who does.

Just when you thought the pettiness on this site couldnt get any worse.