All-Ireland Minor Football Championship 2013

[Syferus]

Absolutely mighty. So many heroes today. Delighted, nothing like winning a big championship game. Now let's do it again.

let us know when you win an ould senior game

Bit below the belt for for you Indiana. I normally concur with most of your posts as they are intelligent but pragmatic. Love the current Dub template under Gavin but love Mayo (God forgive me more).

The Rossies have punched well above their (numerical) weight at underage level these last few seasons. Doing everything right. Senior success will eventually come through as a direct consequence.

Bit unfair of you to deride a heroic 14 man minor win v a fancied Kildare side today. You have population & resources that the rest of us only can dream off.

PS genuinely not picking a fight.... really do respect your posts.... but take umbrage to this one.

I don't see it impacting the senior team a whole lot. Same players from a few years back are still the key players today.

You're in danger of becoming like Galway at underage. You can get married to the whole idea of winning underage titles thing very quickly and in my opinion you are.

I'm not trying to pick a fight either but there has been little or no impact at senior level yet which would make me question where all the resources go.

The most laughable idea surrounding underage is this idea that there is a retarding effect by targetting underage success. If there is a magical way to develop players better by not giving a damn about the result of the games I've yet to see it applied.

Very few counties, even the money bag ones, have succeeded recently without some discerns le underage success. Even Donegal had a good bunch of U21s that reached an AI final to infuse into a talented if under-performing senior team.

Kerry are the exception but they are getting worried about the continued failure of their underage teams and in recent years have started to try and target success at underage. It's pretty clear the delay in doing so has contributed to the situation that finds young Kerry players unable to get a game ahead of mid-30s veterans, they've created a skill gap between the generations and where the younger players are going to end up being given the jersey because the stalwarts retired rather than them earning it from them. That's a symptom of problems with player development.

The Galway comparison is lazy and there are many different factors between the two counties but I'm sick of retreading this ground. Later maybe.

Nothing lazy about it. I'm from a county whose development systems you've largely copied at this stage. So I'm pretty well versed in the ins and outs of them.

All those minor hurling and u21 all-irelands have yielded nada for Galway at senior level. Its not a guarantee. We've only won 1 all-ireland senior title despite being strong at minor and u21 level since 2000 at football.

The danger is the senior team become a sideshow to the underage teams. I've seen it at hurling in dublin for example. where it definitely was the case for a couple of years.

I'll be honest and say I thought the Roscommon senior team this year against Mayo was very poor from a county that is now very well respected at underage level.

Even basic conditioning looked poor. If the underage systems are as good as you say they are then how come you're languishing in Div 3.

I could level the same at Cavan but the difference is Cavan went out in the championship and did the business.

So much wrong with the above but for now - Cavan got an incredibly favourable draw apart from a clearly somewhat over-rated Derry team.

They got into a groove of regular games while we waited on our hands playing challenge matches for ten weeks after beating (guess who) Cavan by ten to end the league and then another eight weeks to a match against the league finalists. The two teams we played are two of the top three on the year and will contest one of this year's AISFs.

We'd have been in much the same position as Cavan if we had their draw and if Cavan had ours I have little doubt they'd have flamed out in two games as well. Cavan have got confidence from a championship run but it's foolish to think they're a shining example of where we should be.

[INDIANA]

Absolutely mighty. So many heroes today. Delighted, nothing like winning a big championship game. Now let's do it again.

let us know when you win an ould senior game

Bit below the belt for for you Indiana. I normally concur with most of your posts as they are intelligent but pragmatic. Love the current Dub template under Gavin but love Mayo (God forgive me more).

The Rossies have punched well above their (numerical) weight at underage level these last few seasons. Doing everything right. Senior success will eventually come through as a direct consequence.

Bit unfair of you to deride a heroic 14 man minor win v a fancied Kildare side today. You have population & resources that the rest of us only can dream off.

PS genuinely not picking a fight.... really do respect your posts.... but take umbrage to this one.

I don't see it impacting the senior team a whole lot. Same players from a few years back are still the key players today.

You're in danger of becoming like Galway at underage. You can get married to the whole idea of winning underage titles thing very quickly and in my opinion you are.

I'm not trying to pick a fight either but there has been little or no impact at senior level yet which would make me question where all the resources go.

The most laughable idea surrounding underage is this idea that there is a retarding effect by targetting underage success. If there is a magical way to develop players better by not giving a damn about the result of the games I've yet to see it applied.

Very few counties, even the money bag ones, have succeeded recently without some discerns le underage success. Even Donegal had a good bunch of U21s that reached an AI final to infuse into a talented if under-performing senior team.

Kerry are the exception but they are getting worried about the continued failure of their underage teams and in recent years have started to try and target success at underage. It's pretty clear the delay in doing so has contributed to the situation that finds young Kerry players unable to get a game ahead of mid-30s veterans, they've created a skill gap between the generations and where the younger players are going to end up being given the jersey because the stalwarts retired rather than them earning it from them. That's a symptom of problems with player development.

The Galway comparison is lazy and there are many different factors between the two counties but I'm sick of retreading this ground. Later maybe.

Nothing lazy about it. I'm from a county whose development systems you've largely copied at this stage. So I'm pretty well versed in the ins and outs of them.

All those minor hurling and u21 all-irelands have yielded nada for Galway at senior level. Its not a guarantee. We've only won 1 all-ireland senior title despite being strong at minor and u21 level since 2000 at football.

The danger is the senior team become a sideshow to the underage teams. I've seen it at hurling in dublin for example. where it definitely was the case for a couple of years.

I'll be honest and say I thought the Roscommon senior team this year against Mayo was very poor from a county that is now very well respected at underage level.

Even basic conditioning looked poor. If the underage systems are as good as you say they are then how come you're languishing in Div 3.

I could level the same at Cavan but the difference is Cavan went out in the championship and did the business.

So much wrong with the above but for now - Cavan got an incredibly favourable draw apart from a clearly somewhat over-rated Derry team.

They got into a groove of regular games while we waited on our hands playing challenge matches for ten weeks after beating (guess who) Cavan by ten to end the league and then another eight weeks to a match against the league finalists. The two teams we played are two of the top three on the year and will contest one of this year's AISFs.

We'd have been in much the same position as Cavan if we had their draw and if Cavan had ours I have little doubt they'd have flamed out in two games as well. Cavan have got confidence from a championship run but it's foolish to think they're a shining example of where we should be.

Couldn't agree but there you are. I'm not going tp push the issue.

If you don't do something at senior level soon - won't matter what you're doing at underage.

[BallyhaiseMan]

Absolutely mighty. So many heroes today. Delighted, nothing like winning a big championship game. Now let's do it again.

let us know when you win an ould senior game

Bit below the belt for for you Indiana. I normally concur with most of your posts as they are intelligent but pragmatic. Love the current Dub template under Gavin but love Mayo (God forgive me more).

The Rossies have punched well above their (numerical) weight at underage level these last few seasons. Doing everything right. Senior success will eventually come through as a direct consequence.

Bit unfair of you to deride a heroic 14 man minor win v a fancied Kildare side today. You have population & resources that the rest of us only can dream off.

PS genuinely not picking a fight.... really do respect your posts.... but take umbrage to this one.

I don't see it impacting the senior team a whole lot. Same players from a few years back are still the key players today.

You're in danger of becoming like Galway at underage. You can get married to the whole idea of winning underage titles thing very quickly and in my opinion you are.

I'm not trying to pick a fight either but there has been little or no impact at senior level yet which would make me question where all the resources go.

The most laughable idea surrounding underage is this idea that there is a retarding effect by targetting underage success. If there is a magical way to develop players better by not giving a damn about the result of the games I've yet to see it applied.

Very few counties, even the money bag ones, have succeeded recently without some discerns le underage success. Even Donegal had a good bunch of U21s that reached an AI final to infuse into a talented if under-performing senior team.

Kerry are the exception but they are getting worried about the continued failure of their underage teams and in recent years have started to try and target success at underage. It's pretty clear the delay in doing so has contributed to the situation that finds young Kerry players unable to get a game ahead of mid-30s veterans, they've created a skill gap between the generations and where the younger players are going to end up being given the jersey because the stalwarts retired rather than them earning it from them. That's a symptom of problems with player development.

The Galway comparison is lazy and there are many different factors between the two counties but I'm sick of retreading this ground. Later maybe.

Nothing lazy about it. I'm from a county whose development systems you've largely copied at this stage. So I'm pretty well versed in the ins and outs of them.

All those minor hurling and u21 all-irelands have yielded nada for Galway at senior level. Its not a guarantee. We've only won 1 all-ireland senior title despite being strong at minor and u21 level since 2000 at football.

The danger is the senior team become a sideshow to the underage teams. I've seen it at hurling in dublin for example. where it definitely was the case for a couple of years.

I'll be honest and say I thought the Roscommon senior team this year against Mayo was very poor from a county that is now very well respected at underage level.

Even basic conditioning looked poor. If the underage systems are as good as you say they are then how come you're languishing in Div 3.

I could level the same at Cavan but the difference is Cavan went out in the championship and did the business.

So much wrong with the above but for now - Cavan got an incredibly favourable draw apart from a clearly somewhat over-rated Derry team.

They got into a groove of regular games while we waited on our hands playing challenge matches for ten weeks after beating (guess who) Cavan by ten to end the league and then another eight weeks to a match against the league finalists. The two teams we played are two of the top three on the year and will contest one of this year's AISFs.

We'd have been in much the same position as Cavan if we had their draw and if Cavan had ours I have little doubt they'd have flamed out in two games as well. Cavan have got confidence from a championship run but it's foolish to think they're a shining example of where we should be.

You beat a 2nd string Cavan outfit whom had been on an organised session in Athlone on the Thursday night (as they were just finishing their hard pre championship training).
The only one of our championship opponents this year that i could say for sure that you would beat are London. You talk some amount of dung. Anyway i'm delighted for the likes of ross matt and Ross fan on their victory today. Hopefully they can go on and win it now.

[Syferus]

Absolutely mighty. So many heroes today. Delighted, nothing like winning a big championship game. Now let's do it again.

let us know when you win an ould senior game

Bit below the belt for for you Indiana. I normally concur with most of your posts as they are intelligent but pragmatic. Love the current Dub template under Gavin but love Mayo (God forgive me more).

The Rossies have punched well above their (numerical) weight at underage level these last few seasons. Doing everything right. Senior success will eventually come through as a direct consequence.

Bit unfair of you to deride a heroic 14 man minor win v a fancied Kildare side today. You have population & resources that the rest of us only can dream off.

PS genuinely not picking a fight.... really do respect your posts.... but take umbrage to this one.

I don't see it impacting the senior team a whole lot. Same players from a few years back are still the key players today.

You're in danger of becoming like Galway at underage. You can get married to the whole idea of winning underage titles thing very quickly and in my opinion you are.

I'm not trying to pick a fight either but there has been little or no impact at senior level yet which would make me question where all the resources go.

The most laughable idea surrounding underage is this idea that there is a retarding effect by targetting underage success. If there is a magical way to develop players better by not giving a damn about the result of the games I've yet to see it applied.

Very few counties, even the money bag ones, have succeeded recently without some discerns le underage success. Even Donegal had a good bunch of U21s that reached an AI final to infuse into a talented if under-performing senior team.

Kerry are the exception but they are getting worried about the continued failure of their underage teams and in recent years have started to try and target success at underage. It's pretty clear the delay in doing so has contributed to the situation that finds young Kerry players unable to get a game ahead of mid-30s veterans, they've created a skill gap between the generations and where the younger players are going to end up being given the jersey because the stalwarts retired rather than them earning it from them. That's a symptom of problems with player development.

The Galway comparison is lazy and there are many different factors between the two counties but I'm sick of retreading this ground. Later maybe.

Nothing lazy about it. I'm from a county whose development systems you've largely copied at this stage. So I'm pretty well versed in the ins and outs of them.

All those minor hurling and u21 all-irelands have yielded nada for Galway at senior level. Its not a guarantee. We've only won 1 all-ireland senior title despite being strong at minor and u21 level since 2000 at football.

The danger is the senior team become a sideshow to the underage teams. I've seen it at hurling in dublin for example. where it definitely was the case for a couple of years.

I'll be honest and say I thought the Roscommon senior team this year against Mayo was very poor from a county that is now very well respected at underage level.

Even basic conditioning looked poor. If the underage systems are as good as you say they are then how come you're languishing in Div 3.

I could level the same at Cavan but the difference is Cavan went out in the championship and did the business.

So much wrong with the above but for now - Cavan got an incredibly favourable draw apart from a clearly somewhat over-rated Derry team.

They got into a groove of regular games while we waited on our hands playing challenge matches for ten weeks after beating (guess who) Cavan by ten to end the league and then another eight weeks to a match against the league finalists. The two teams we played are two of the top three on the year and will contest one of this year's AISFs.

We'd have been in much the same position as Cavan if we had their draw and if Cavan had ours I have little doubt they'd have flamed out in two games as well. Cavan have got confidence from a championship run but it's foolish to think they're a shining example of where we should be.

You beat a 2nd string Cavan outfit whom had been on an organised session in Athlone on the Thursday night (as they were just finishing their hard pre championship training).
The only one of our championship opponents this year that i could say for sure that you would beat are London. You talk some amount of dung. Anyway i'm delighted for the likes of ross matt and Ross fan on their victory today. Hopefully they can go on and win it now.

That's verging on little man complex. The usual internet forum tactic of attacking the poster rather than the point is also in full force, cute.

The two teams are nearly identical in their recent form - we made an AIQFs only a few years ago - and where exactly is Cavan's provincial crown? If you want to be brutal we have more to show for our underage success than Cavan do right now.

All I said was that both teams are in the same space. They are and any objective look at the situation would tell you that much.

This is not the place to continue this discussion. Set up a D3 2014 thread. That is unless Cavan have got a bye to D2 for their championship exploits?

[BallyhaiseMan]

Absolutely mighty. So many heroes today. Delighted, nothing like winning a big championship game. Now let's do it again.

let us know when you win an ould senior game

Bit below the belt for for you Indiana. I normally concur with most of your posts as they are intelligent but pragmatic. Love the current Dub template under Gavin but love Mayo (God forgive me more).

The Rossies have punched well above their (numerical) weight at underage level these last few seasons. Doing everything right. Senior success will eventually come through as a direct consequence.

Bit unfair of you to deride a heroic 14 man minor win v a fancied Kildare side today. You have population & resources that the rest of us only can dream off.

PS genuinely not picking a fight.... really do respect your posts.... but take umbrage to this one.

I don't see it impacting the senior team a whole lot. Same players from a few years back are still the key players today.

You're in danger of becoming like Galway at underage. You can get married to the whole idea of winning underage titles thing very quickly and in my opinion you are.

I'm not trying to pick a fight either but there has been little or no impact at senior level yet which would make me question where all the resources go.

The most laughable idea surrounding underage is this idea that there is a retarding effect by targetting underage success. If there is a magical way to develop players better by not giving a damn about the result of the games I've yet to see it applied.

Very few counties, even the money bag ones, have succeeded recently without some discerns le underage success. Even Donegal had a good bunch of U21s that reached an AI final to infuse into a talented if under-performing senior team.

Kerry are the exception but they are getting worried about the continued failure of their underage teams and in recent years have started to try and target success at underage. It's pretty clear the delay in doing so has contributed to the situation that finds young Kerry players unable to get a game ahead of mid-30s veterans, they've created a skill gap between the generations and where the younger players are going to end up being given the jersey because the stalwarts retired rather than them earning it from them. That's a symptom of problems with player development.

The Galway comparison is lazy and there are many different factors between the two counties but I'm sick of retreading this ground. Later maybe.

Nothing lazy about it. I'm from a county whose development systems you've largely copied at this stage. So I'm pretty well versed in the ins and outs of them.

All those minor hurling and u21 all-irelands have yielded nada for Galway at senior level. Its not a guarantee. We've only won 1 all-ireland senior title despite being strong at minor and u21 level since 2000 at football.

The danger is the senior team become a sideshow to the underage teams. I've seen it at hurling in dublin for example. where it definitely was the case for a couple of years.

I'll be honest and say I thought the Roscommon senior team this year against Mayo was very poor from a county that is now very well respected at underage level.

Even basic conditioning looked poor. If the underage systems are as good as you say they are then how come you're languishing in Div 3.

I could level the same at Cavan but the difference is Cavan went out in the championship and did the business.

So much wrong with the above but for now - Cavan got an incredibly favourable draw apart from a clearly somewhat over-rated Derry team.

They got into a groove of regular games while we waited on our hands playing challenge matches for ten weeks after beating (guess who) Cavan by ten to end the league and then another eight weeks to a match against the league finalists. The two teams we played are two of the top three on the year and will contest one of this year's AISFs.

We'd have been in much the same position as Cavan if we had their draw and if Cavan had ours I have little doubt they'd have flamed out in two games as well. Cavan have got confidence from a championship run but it's foolish to think they're a shining example of where we should be.

You beat a 2nd string Cavan outfit whom had been on an organised session in Athlone on the Thursday night (as they were just finishing their hard pre championship training).
The only one of our championship opponents this year that i could say for sure that you would beat are London. You talk some amount of dung. Anyway i'm delighted for the likes of ross matt and Ross fan on their victory today. Hopefully they can go on and win it now.

That's verging on little man complex. The usual internet forum tactic of attacking the poster rather than the point is also in full force, cute.

The two teams are nearly identical in their recent form - we made an AIQFs only a few years ago - and where exactly is Cavan's provincial crown? If you want to be brutal we have more to show for our underage success than Cavan do right now.

All I said was that both teams are in the same space. They are and any objective look at the situation would tell you that much.

This is not the place to continue this discussion. Set up a D3 2014 thread. That is unless Cavan have got a bye to D2 for their championship exploits?

Listen i'm not going to get into an argument with you over this and start throwing insults all over the shop and derail the thread  and i don't claim to know Roscommon football like the natives but i feel Indiana is correct in his assertion. Very little came from that Roscommon minor winning team of 2006, a couple of senior quarter finals appearances and a few round 4 qualifying exits should not be considered successful for such a proud and obsessed  footballing county with a talented young bunch available to them.
I would be very disappointed if a quarter final, was the furthest this group of Cavan players would get to,during their IC careers.
It is too early however to make a judgement on the Connacht under 21 winners of 2010,2011 and minor winners of 2011,2012,but certainly Roscommon should be making a move next year and anything less than say a last 12 spot should be considered a dissapointment. Now back to the minors

[ross4life]

INDIANA moving on from the sly digs at Syferus I'm sure you would agree for county of our size and pick with little or no money it's a fine achievement to win anything at any level  & like said on this thread in page 2 underage success is no guarantee of senior success continued failure at under age practically guarantees failure at senior level.

Thanks to the huge work at underage level we have the best talent available to us for over a decade, our target is to get out of div 3 then take it from there if in say five years we are still in div 3 and no Connacht title won then no doubt in my mind we'll have underachieved.

[INDIANA]

INDIANA moving on from the sly digs at Syferus I'm sure you would agree for county of our size and pick with little or no money it's a fine achievement to win anything at any level  & like said on this thread in page 2 underage success is no guarantee of senior success continued failure at under age practically guarantees failure at senior level.

Thanks to the huge work at underage level we have the best talent available to us for over a decade, our target is to get out of div 3 then take it from there if in say five years we are still in div 3 and no Connacht title won then no doubt in my mind we'll have underachieved.

Wasn't meant to be a sly dig. I think I phrased it wrong. I think you've done remarkably well at underage level but you should be seeing something now at senior level. Otherwise all the work goes to waste.

[Sleater]

I was in Longford for the Monaghan - Tipp semi final. A good tight game with Monaghan's substitions shading it against a good Tipp team. The Monaghan management recongnised they ahve problemns win defence and especially midfield but after yesterday's performance, that is still an issue. The return of Cremartin's Mark Magee from long term injury is a huge boost as his physicality, fielding and mobility and experience (full back on last year's team) is badly needed in the middle of the pitch. Dessie Ward and Mickey Murnaghan, worked hard but neither are midfielders at this level. Defensively Mervyn Brown helped tigthen the half back line up, though the corner back positions are still a problem. Full back Kevin Loughran must feel like he's fighting the battle on his own back there. Up front yesterday, the ball going into the Monaghan forward was very poor, with passes balloning wildly into the air, especially in the first half. The McCarthy/McMahon axis which has proved so deadly for Monaghan had a meagre supply to work off, but when decent ball was supplied in the second half they again delivered.

For the Mayo semi final - the Monaghan mangement will need to start Magee as for the third straight game they've been wiped out of it in the middle of the pitch. Against Mayo that wouldn't be good enough and they can't reply on the forwards to simply rack up a huge tallies like they did in Ulster to cover up deficienes in midfield and defence.

[Dinny Breen]

INDIANA moving on from the sly digs at Syferus I'm sure you would agree for county of our size and pick with little or no money it's a fine achievement to win anything at any level  & like said on this thread in page 2 underage success is no guarantee of senior success continued failure at under age practically guarantees failure at senior level.

Thanks to the huge work at underage level we have the best talent available to us for over a decade, our target is to get out of div 3 then take it from there if in say five years we are still in div 3 and no Connacht title won then no doubt in my mind we'll have underachieved.

Wasn't meant to be a sly dig. I think I phrased it wrong. I think you've done remarkably well at underage level but you should be seeing something now at senior level. Otherwise all the work goes to waste.

Indiana, instead of been so aggressive and negative can you offer constructive criticism as to why you believe Roscommon aren't bridging the gap from under-age success to senior. There's a clear defined pathway for players but sometimes I believe history and culture (obviously speaking from experience here) is as much a barrier as just not having good footballers. Roscommon are mentally dwarfed by Mayo and Galway same way Kildare mentally freeze at senior level against Dublin.

Losing Fergal O'Donnell as senior manager has not helped imho, contrasting Kildare and Roscommon yesterday it was easy to see which side was the better managed. At senior I think O'Donnell could really have created a legacy if allowed over 5-10 years, too often now the only barometer of success at senior level is an All-Ireland.

[Syferus]

INDIANA moving on from the sly digs at Syferus I'm sure you would agree for county of our size and pick with little or no money it's a fine achievement to win anything at any level  & like said on this thread in page 2 underage success is no guarantee of senior success continued failure at under age practically guarantees failure at senior level.

Thanks to the huge work at underage level we have the best talent available to us for over a decade, our target is to get out of div 3 then take it from there if in say five years we are still in div 3 and no Connacht title won then no doubt in my mind we'll have underachieved.

Wasn't meant to be a sly dig. I think I phrased it wrong. I think you've done remarkably well at underage level but you should be seeing something now at senior level. Otherwise all the work goes to waste.

Indiana, instead of been so aggressive and negative can you offer constructive criticism as to why you believe Roscommon aren't bridging the gap from under-age success to senior. There's a clear defined pathway for players but sometimes I believe history and culture (obviously speaking from experience here) is as much a barrier as just not having good footballers. Roscommon are mentally dwarfed by Mayo and Galway same way Kildare mentally freeze at senior level against Dublin.

Losing Fergal O'Donnell as senior manager has not helped imho, contrasting Kildare and Roscommon yesterday it was easy to see which side was the better managed. At senior I think O'Donnell could really have created a legacy if allowed over 5-10 years, too often now the only barometer of success at senior level is an All-Ireland.

Ferg rarely disappoints, the teams he's managed love him. The seniors were openly hoping he'd return after he left and trust me, that's about the first time I've ever seen that happen here.

It wasn't a situation where anyone wanted him to leave, the board tried their best to convince him to stay (he'd thought about leaving post-2010 but decided to give it another year) - he has a young family and was thrust into the senior job too early after the Maughan era ended in a near-complete team implosion. He's a very humble guy and most everyone has a soft spot for him. He was the captain in 2001 so almost all our big days over the last decade have had his fingerprints on them in some way. Definitely one of the finest managers we've produced in some time.

After not getting our defence right throughout the league and under-performing in the championship I couldn't not see Fergie (who has the 2011 Connacht-winning manager Ross Shannon and Ballagh's Mayo-winning manager Mark Dowd as selectors, with David Casey who's a selector for our U21s helping out too) and the team drawing out a big performance. Didn't know if it'd it be enough but boy was it ever.

At senior appointing Des last year was a mistake but John Evans has done a very good job steadying the ship this year after a very late appointment. He's likely to get a year or two's extension unless next year is a disaster. After that it'll probably be the turn of one of the underage managers, either Nigel Dineen or maybe a return for Fergie.

[INDIANA]

INDIANA moving on from the sly digs at Syferus I'm sure you would agree for county of our size and pick with little or no money it's a fine achievement to win anything at any level  & like said on this thread in page 2 underage success is no guarantee of senior success continued failure at under age practically guarantees failure at senior level.

Thanks to the huge work at underage level we have the best talent available to us for over a decade, our target is to get out of div 3 then take it from there if in say five years we are still in div 3 and no Connacht title won then no doubt in my mind we'll have underachieved.

Wasn't meant to be a sly dig. I think I phrased it wrong. I think you've done remarkably well at underage level but you should be seeing something now at senior level. Otherwise all the work goes to waste.

Indiana, instead of been so aggressive and negative can you offer constructive criticism as to why you believe Roscommon aren't bridging the gap from under-age success to senior. There's a clear defined pathway for players but sometimes I believe history and culture (obviously speaking from experience here) is as much a barrier as just not having good footballers. Roscommon are mentally dwarfed by Mayo and Galway same way Kildare mentally freeze at senior level against Dublin.

Losing Fergal O'Donnell as senior manager has not helped imho, contrasting Kildare and Roscommon yesterday it was easy to see which side was the better managed. At senior I think O'Donnell could really have created a legacy if allowed over 5-10 years, too often now the only barometer of success at senior level is an All-Ireland.

I think Kildare are a slightly different case as they've only started. Kildare should be right up there with dublin every year.  With the population base, clubs etc. But they've neglected the underage totally until recently.

First point- Club structure is vital to supplement the underage structure. And I think that's where both lose out.

Roscommon are dominated like Armagh by one big club and Kildare don't seem to make any impact at club level in recent years either.

You'll only get 3/4 players off any underage team and probably less off a minor team. Minor is less of an indicator. u21 is better- they're playing against men.

But you'll pick up a few from club level if the structures are good enough. Dublin club football is very strong- unfortunately for the wrong reasons in some cases. But lads like Kilkenny and Costello are from Div 3 clubs. That only augurs well for the strength of club football in Dublin.

The second point and crux however is this.

The underage teams can make the senior team become a sideshow. Its happened in Laois and it was the same in Dublin for a while. This year none of our senior u21 panelists trained with the u21's. And we lost to Longford. But I wouldn't change the fact they didn't train. The senior team is number one and always should be.

I'm not sure it is in every county.

[Declan]

That must be a decent Roscommon team because on the couple of occasions I saw that Kildare team they impressed me

[Syferus]

INDIANA moving on from the sly digs at Syferus I'm sure you would agree for county of our size and pick with little or no money it's a fine achievement to win anything at any level  & like said on this thread in page 2 underage success is no guarantee of senior success continued failure at under age practically guarantees failure at senior level.

Thanks to the huge work at underage level we have the best talent available to us for over a decade, our target is to get out of div 3 then take it from there if in say five years we are still in div 3 and no Connacht title won then no doubt in my mind we'll have underachieved.

Wasn't meant to be a sly dig. I think I phrased it wrong. I think you've done remarkably well at underage level but you should be seeing something now at senior level. Otherwise all the work goes to waste.

Indiana, instead of been so aggressive and negative can you offer constructive criticism as to why you believe Roscommon aren't bridging the gap from under-age success to senior. There's a clear defined pathway for players but sometimes I believe history and culture (obviously speaking from experience here) is as much a barrier as just not having good footballers. Roscommon are mentally dwarfed by Mayo and Galway same way Kildare mentally freeze at senior level against Dublin.

Losing Fergal O'Donnell as senior manager has not helped imho, contrasting Kildare and Roscommon yesterday it was easy to see which side was the better managed. At senior I think O'Donnell could really have created a legacy if allowed over 5-10 years, too often now the only barometer of success at senior level is an All-Ireland.

I think Kildare are a slightly different case as they've only started. Kildare should be right up there with dublin every year.  With the population base, clubs etc. But they've neglected the underage totally until recently.

First point- Club structure is vital to supplement the underage structure. And I think that's where both lose out.

Roscommon are dominated like Armagh by one big club and Kildare don't seem to make any impact at club level in recent years either.

You'll only get 3/4 players off any underage team and probably less off a minor team. Minor is less of an indicator. u21 is better- they're playing against men.

But you'll pick up a few from club level if the structures are good enough. Dublin club football is very strong- unfortunately for the wrong reasons in some cases. But lads like Kilkenny and Costello are from Div 3 clubs. That only augurs well for the strength of club football in Dublin.

The second point and crux however is this.

The underage teams can make the senior team become a sideshow. Its happened in Laois and it was the same in Dublin for a while. This year none of our senior u21 panelists trained with the u21's. And we lost to Longford. But I wouldn't change the fact they didn't train. The senior team is number one and always should be.

I'm not sure it is in every county.

While Brigids dominate senior other clubs have been the ones feeding underage county teams (the only Brigids starter on this minor team is the goalkeeper) and winning underage county titles for years now. With good management Brigids will have plenty of competition at county level in the years ahead.

[Syferus]

Outright betting:

Roscommon 15/8
Mayo 2/1
Tyrone 10/3
Monaghan 10/3

Oh dear lordy.

When have we ever, ever been All-Ireland favourites at any grade?

Cue the Tyrone manager fruitlessly trying to pile pressure on us by saying we're the big favourites etc. Keep the heads down and don't listen to a word of it, lads. Don't expect a team under Fergie to believe the hype so this is only an amusing anecdote.

[GalwayBayBoy]

That must be a decent Roscommon team because on the couple of occasions I saw that Kildare team they impressed me

Connacht is very strong at underage again this year by the looks of it. Galway won the minor league in Connacht but lost to Mayo after extra-time after the Galway keeper had a bit of a nightmare under the high ball. No second chance in Connacht either until the final obviously. Mayo are strong, Roscommon are strong. 3 of the 5 or 6 best teams may well have been in Connacht this year