Dublin vs Meath - Leinster Final

[Syferus]

Zulu it's not as if there's no coaching or coach development going on in Kildare. But you're talking about a county with the resources to employ six full-time coaches trying to compete with one that has about 60 (open to correction). One whose only sponsor gives 100k a year to one whose main sponsor alone gives 10 times that. One that nearly bankrupts itself building a centre of excellence to one that already has more than one comparable facility. We can nick the odd underage provincial title like we did last year but in the long run, over the long term, we're fcuked.
And we're probably one of the best off other Leinster counties. Where Offaly or Carlow or Laois, counties where there might be only two hundred able-bodied players in one age group full stop, even start, I don't know.

Well Laois hurling seems to have bounced back from a very low ebb and that's on the back of better organisation across the board as far as I know.

I accept all you're saying and I know well there is a lot of good things going on in Kildare GAA but if you need more CDA's then why not invest €1000 per year from each club and look for CP to match that? That would get you 3 more CDA's for a start, why not target your volunteer coaches for developmental assistance if as Dinny says they are enthusiastic but not great? You can go online and buy plenty of coaching resources which can then be emailed out to all coaches within the club for example.

Aren't Laois getting a yearly grant from HQ for their hurling development? Kinda proves Dinny's and Ohtoohtobe's points.

No, that was only agreed at congress this year so they weren't getting anything more than everybody else until now and it only works out at €60,000 for Laois I think as it's divided between 4 or 5 counties.

Fair enough, but even the fact their doing it at all indicates even the powers that be realise there's a montery imbalance that's effecting the games.

I think the end game that doesn't result in counties merging or being broken apart is using the cash cow that is Dublin GAA as the core of a franchise model where revenues are split more evenly and teams get enough money to fund something above threadbare training. A situation where some counties are forced to train in hotels because they have no all-weather pitches while other counties (not just Dublin) can call upon relatively opulent facilities will never be for the betterment of the game.

County level spending in particular has went insane over recent years and the likes of Mayo and Kildare have spent money they can't afford to sustainably to be where they are or were. I'd think a spending cap that is genuinely monitored and enforced would make a lot of counties happy and even for the likes of Dublin and Mayo it would allow them to spend money on other aspects of the sport because they wouldn't be able to mindlessly funnel to the money into county level preparation.

You're still going to have a situation where the likes of Dublin and Cork have comparatively massively playing resources but if it's no longer coupled with a significant monetary and infrastructure advantage it won't be the toxic mixture it appears to be becoming. The more teams we can get to be competitive the more exciting and the healthier the GAA will be overall. Otherwise people will start to lose interest and motivation to put in the effort it takes at county level. I think we can learn a lot from the enforced parity that you see in many American sports leagues.

[Zulu]

I appreciate that Dinny but I was talking about clubs doing this. If your club have a lot of enthusiastic but limited coaches then your club could invest in online coaching materials that can be distributed to all coaches, you can get a lot of coaching material for maybe €200, ask each coach to contribute €5 (not a bad deal €200 of material for €5) and it might cost the club €100 in a once off payment.

If you invited some top quality coaches to run through some practical sessions with them once every two months that would help too and shouldn't cost you anything as the county CDA's should organise for you. Even if you got top coaches from other sports and paid for that every now and then it would be money well spent. I fully appreciate that it is easier to throw out ideas than it is to organise and fund in reality. However, there are affordable and achievable things clubs and counties can do to improve their own situation, which is all they can do.

[Zulu]

Fair enough, but even the fact their doing it at all indicates even the powers that be realise there's a montery imbalance that's effecting the games.

But I'm not suggesting money isn't a factor, it certainly is, just that there are things you can do when you don't have huge amounts of money.

[Syferus]

Fair enough, but even the fact their doing it at all indicates even the powers that be realise there's a montery imbalance that's effecting the games.

But I'm not suggesting money isn't a factor, it certainly is, just that there are things you can do when you don't have huge amounts of money.

Totally agree with that point, sure look what we've managed to do with marshy pitches and a few pennies. Good (volunteer) coaches and smart board men will always have a huge impact on how a club or a county performs. I'd just hope that the GAA will take the edges off the other aspects so that those things can be more regularly deciding factors in results and success.

[Zulu]

I agree, I want to see all counties maximising their potential and they need money to do that but it isn't there for everybody at the moment so in the meantime counties need to be a bit smarter and a bit more inventive. IMO counties like Kildare and Meath should be high priority counties for investment and I can never understand why the GAA have never taken an active role in developing a high population county like Wicklow.

[Dinny Breen]

I appreciate that Dinny but I was talking about clubs doing this. If your club have a lot of enthusiastic but limited coaches then your club could invest in online coaching materials that can be distributed to all coaches, you can get a lot of coaching material for maybe €200, ask each coach to contribute €5 (not a bad deal €200 of material for €5) and it might cost the club €100 in a once off payment.

If you invited some top quality coaches to run through some practical sessions with them once every two months that would help too and shouldn't cost you anything as the county CDA's should organise for you. Even if you got top coaches from other sports and paid for that every now and then it would be money well spent. I fully appreciate that it is easier to throw out ideas than it is to organise and fund in reality. However, there are affordable and achievable things clubs and counties can do to improve their own situation, which is all they can do.

Everything I agree with but Dublin are getting financial assistance to make this happen, the return on their investment is a full-time coach, that's a lot easier to sell to a finance committee that is struggling to keep the clubs head above the water than we may see some improvements in the under-age coaching and in 10-15 years we'll reap the benefits and oh we'll be doing the county team a great service by developing the stars of tomorrow today.

[Bingo]

I appreciate that Dinny but I was talking about clubs doing this. If your club have a lot of enthusiastic but limited coaches then your club could invest in online coaching materials that can be distributed to all coaches, you can get a lot of coaching material for maybe €200, ask each coach to contribute €5 (not a bad deal €200 of material for €5) and it might cost the club €100 in a once off payment.

If you invited some top quality coaches to run through some practical sessions with them once every two months that would help too and shouldn't cost you anything as the county CDA's should organise for you. Even if you got top coaches from other sports and paid for that every now and then it would be money well spent. I fully appreciate that it is easier to throw out ideas than it is to organise and fund in reality. However, there are affordable and achievable things clubs and counties can do to improve their own situation, which is all they can do.

I can say what you are saying and we've applied a lot of what we you are saying in our club and its starting to pay dividends. But, like everything, you need the right people willing to take the whistle and gear. Its like playing football, you can coach someone all you like but they might never be any good no matter how keen they are. You need someone with the right skill set and people round him that will add to his role. Explayers are best suited to this but others can also certainly offer a lot as well.

Clubs will also be drawing from a smaller pool, your best coaches often are drawn to senior teams and then to other clubs for some travel expenses  that they wouldn't get off their own clubs.

In Monaghan we have a small pool of county coaches but they are very active and organise some excellent workshops for coaches. We'd get people to attend as best we can but some clubs don't bother. In Monaghan this is probably easier to manage.

Sometimes the size of the Meaths and Kildare might make it harder rather than easier to get round all the coaches and clubs. But I like Monaghans set up - they provide the material and the clubs go to them for it. A centre of excellence and a base for the county really helps this.

[Zulu]

You're probably right Dinny but I'd question any committee that isn't supporting it's underage development as best they can. Yes, it might be 10 years before you see a benefit at senior level and even then it's not guaranteed but surely that's what every club must try to do anyway? Producing county players may not float every club committees boat but if your producing high quality county players then you have very high quality club players.

We've probably talked this one out but if I was involved in a club in Kildare I would be seeking to maximise the potential of the kids we have by trying to produce better quality coaches. If it can be done cheaply all the better but if it needs funding the I would be looking to generate that money if at all possible. You have as much time with players from 6 to 14 as they have as adult players 22-30 for many. If you have a technically well developed good in game decision maker at 14 then it will be fairly easy to get a good quality senior.

[Zulu]

I can say what you are saying and we've applied a lot of what we you are saying in our club and its starting to pay dividends. But, like everything, you need the right people willing to take the whistle and gear. Its like playing football, you can coach someone all you like but they might never be any good no matter how keen they are. You need someone with the right skill set and people round him that will add to his role. Explayers are best suited to this but others can also certainly offer a lot as well.

Couldn't agree more Bingo. I coach the coaches in my club and most are ex-players or even current players but I doubt some of them will ever make good coaches. Coaching is certainly a skill that some people have to a greater degree than others but you don't need to be brilliant at U8 level for example but you still need to know what you're doing and have the ability to recognise when you're not doing things well. A bit of organisation, education, enthusiasm and a plan can go a long way at club level.

[Dinny Breen]

You're probably right Dinny but I'd question any committee that isn't supporting it's underage development as best they can. Yes, it might be 10 years before you see a benefit at senior level and even then it's not guaranteed but surely that's what every club must try to do anyway? Producing county players may not float every club committees boat but if your producing high quality county players then you have very high quality club players.

We've probably talked this one out but if I was involved in a club in Kildare I would be seeking to maximise the potential of the kids we have by trying to produce better quality coaches. If it can be done cheaply all the better but if it needs funding the I would be looking to generate that money if at all possible. You have as much time with players from 6 to 14 as they have as adult players 22-30 for many. If you have a technically well developed good in game decision maker at 14 then it will be fairly easy to get a good quality senior.

I venture into GAA coaching next year as I'm going to take on my daughter's u7 team. I will be picking your brains   My own philosophy is for under-age is skills development and will be staying away from competitive games as much as possible.

[Jinxy]

That and laps.
Get them running lots of laps.

[Zulu]

You're probably right Dinny but I'd question any committee that isn't supporting it's underage development as best they can. Yes, it might be 10 years before you see a benefit at senior level and even then it's not guaranteed but surely that's what every club must try to do anyway? Producing county players may not float every club committees boat but if your producing high quality county players then you have very high quality club players.

We've probably talked this one out but if I was involved in a club in Kildare I would be seeking to maximise the potential of the kids we have by trying to produce better quality coaches. If it can be done cheaply all the better but if it needs funding the I would be looking to generate that money if at all possible. You have as much time with players from 6 to 14 as they have as adult players 22-30 for many. If you have a technically well developed good in game decision maker at 14 then it will be fairly easy to get a good quality senior.

I venture into GAA coaching next year as I'm going to take on my daughter's u7 team. I will be picking your brains   My own philosophy is for under-age is skills development and will be staying away from competitive games as much as possible.

Good man, PM your email and I'll save you €200 of coaching resources!!

[Rossfan]

That and laps.
Get them running lots of laps.

And NO BLOODY HANDPASSING 

[Jinxy]

Dublin are actually pretty homogenous in terms of body type/shape.
O'Gara would be a notable exception but in general they are very similar.
We, like a lot of teams, have a mixture of tall lads, small lads and then lads who are in between.
The problem with that is:
a) you can run the legs off the tall lads
b) you can out-muscle the small lads

We were having a discussion after the game yesterday about which Meath players would make the Dublin team.
In all honesty, I could identify one who would start and one who would probably make the squad.
Donal Keoghan is one of the best corner backs in the country and I think Donnacha Tobin has the potential to develop into a really excellent footballer.
They are good enough and athletic enough to play in that Dublin team.
Note they both conform to the Dublin player 'type', i.e. they are the right height, fast, strong and comfortable on the ball.

[Syferus]

Dublin are actually pretty homogenous in terms of body type/shape.
O'Gara would be a notable exception but in general they are very similar.
We, like a lot of teams, have a mixture of tall lads, small lads and then lads who are in between.
The problem with that is:
a) you can run the legs off the tall lads
b) you can out-muscle the small lads

We were having a discussion after the game yesterday about which Meath players would make the Dublin team.
In all honesty, I could identify one who would start and one who would probably make the squad.
Donal Keoghan is one of the best corner backs in the country and I think Donnacha Tobin has the potential to develop into a really excellent footballer.
They are good enough and athletic enough to play in that Dublin team.
Note they both conform to the Dublin player 'type', i.e. they are the right height, fast, strong and comfortable on the ball.

Do they have a bit of bite, though?