Rangers FC to go into administration

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I'd say it's more the case that "green, white & gold" rolls off the tongue more easily than "green, white and orange".

I think there's more to it than that. The flag was idealistic and the reality never lived up to the idealism.
How many Orangepeople identify with the tricolour? It is supposed to be their flag too.

The "Green, White and Gold" brigade always seemed to me to be the domain of 6 county folk, conservative Catholics and the ill-informed.

[rossie mad]

Dunno, I'm finding the whole thing fascinating on a number of levels. I've never really took an interest in soccer although there's pictures about of me wearing the hoops as a child. In fairness I can claim a tenuous link through my grandfather who lined out for them in the '20's before returning home as a founder member and player for the green and white hoops of the Highmoss Sarsfields. Always wondered if there was a link between the skips.

Anyhow, from a geeky point of view, the rangerstaxcase blog exemplifies the value of crowdsourced investigative journalism. Not only did the bloggers and commenters  "pull down the facade at Rangers” exposing the greed and corruption, but also the shear lunacy of the 'win at all costs mentality' of professional soccer. From what I've read, Rangers had a number of opportunities over the past decade to rein in the spending and get themselves on an even keel but they choose instead to spend millions more and gamble on European glory. They've bankrupted themselves in an attempt to buy bragging rights over their neighbours. Crazy. No notion of fairness or sportsmanship exist is this game, it's not even about winning, it's about dominating all around you. If the GAA ever goes professional, I'll cease to me a member the same day.

On a cultural level the contrast is amusing. Okay, I'm a fenian, so I'm going to be biased. I've never been to a soccer game and my only experience of soccer culture outside Ireland is the last couple of weeks on the "kerrydalestreet" and "rangermedia" forums. However, the cultural differences between the two boards is a bit mad. For example on "kerrydalestreet", swearing and cursing is banned while on "rangermedia" you'd do well to get through a post without someone f**king your sister, mother or daughter. "kerrydalestreet" has 'jelly and ice-cream',  "rangermedia" has 'vodka and charlie'. "kerrydalestreet" threads will usually run to 20 or 30 pages of discussion while on "rangermedia" you'll be lucky to get more than 3 and most of those will be inane adolescent rants which invariably end up in someone accused of being a 'bead-rattling tim paedophile' - one I read the other day had posters wishing a 9 year had his legs broken because he scored a goal against a Rangers youth team.

I didn't know until I read this thread that Celtic fans had a history of claiming establishment conspiracies against them but from reading the coverage of this story I have been genuinely amazed how the media have been giving an easy ride to the various players in the Rangers saga. A bigger dose of gangsters, chancers, gombeens, conmen, free-loaders, idiots and outright psychopaths has never to my knowledge ever blighted this earth but the Scottish media seems oblivious to them all - as do their politicians.

Excellant post

[seafoid]

I'd say it's more the case that "green, white & gold" rolls off the tongue more easily than "green, white and orange".

I think there's more to it than that. The flag was idealistic and the reality never lived up to the idealism.
How many Orangepeople identify with the tricolour? It is supposed to be their flag too.

The "Green, White and Gold" brigade always seemed to me to be the domain of 6 county folk, conservative Catholics and the ill-informed.

plus offaly people

[johnneycool]

What is Lennon going on about the media trying to drag him and Celtic players into the Rangers in Administration issue?

What has been said?

[haranguerer]

I'd say it's more the case that "green, white & gold" rolls off the tongue more easily than "green, white and orange".

I think there's more to it than that. The flag was idealistic and the reality never lived up to the idealism.
How many Orangepeople identify with the tricolour? It is supposed to be their flag too.

The "Green, White and Gold" brigade always seemed to me to be the domain of 6 county folk, conservative Catholics and the ill-informed.

You are one complete bollocks.

[Main Street]

What is Lennon going on about the media trying to drag him and Celtic players into the Rangers in Administration issue?

What has been said?

What has been said by Celtic fc and Lennon re Rangers going into administration is banal, how it was twisted around by certain journalists (the 'two shítty sides of the same coin' advocates) and media outlets to make it look radically different, is another matter. So it's simple for Lennon, he will avoid the media for now, because inevitably every interview will skip over the football and rush to questions about Rangers' demise.

[ONeill]

Any examples?

[Nally Stand]

I'd say it's more the case that "green, white & gold" rolls off the tongue more easily than "green, white and orange".

I think there's more to it than that. The flag was idealistic and the reality never lived up to the idealism.
How many Orangepeople identify with the tricolour? It is supposed to be their flag too.

The "Green, White and Gold" brigade always seemed to me to be the domain of 6 county folk, conservative Catholics and the ill-informed.

You are one complete bollocks.

I assume you are merely reiterating something you knew long ago, and that it hasn't taken you until now to realise this?!

[Main Street]

Any examples?

From that quality discussion board, Kerrydale Street, there is a link to a Neil Lennon interview
http://soundcloud.com/celticresearch/lenny-radio-scotland/s-ukpjT
he did for BBCRS where Lennon tried to articulate as best he can, his stance and his reason for the press conference boycott.
Boycott being old rebel tactic from Fenian times, also rooted in the Celtic cultural ethos 
Traynor from the BBCRS was named by Lennon

Here is one (highly disputed by Celtic) earlier article by Traynor and Jackson  published by the Record

Feb 28 2012 Exclusive by James Traynor and Keith Jackson

THE Old Firm are locked in a cash feud after it emerged Celtic have reneged on a deal to hand over a £300,000 advance on tickets for next month's derby clash.

And Record Sport understands anxious Ibrox staff fear the move may force more job cuts at their stricken club at a time when administrators are trying to unearth enough money to keep the business running.

We revealed on December 6 how Celtic were breaking with tradition by demanding Rangers pay up front for their fans' tickets for the derby match at Parkhead at Christmas.

With the Ibrox finances unravelling under the disgraced Craig Whyte regime, Celtic feared they might be left out of pocket if Rangers went into administration.

Whyte reluctantly cobbled together the cash to avoid having an 8000-strong travelling support locked out of the biggest fixture of the festive period.

And according to sources, a verbal agreement was reached between the clubs that Celtic would also pay up front before their second visit of the season to Ibrox on March 25.

But last night that deal appeared to have broken down, just as Rangers' need for cash was becoming even more desperate.

The Parkhead club are due to receive 7300 tickets for Ibrox with their fans set to stump up £42-a-head for the pleasure of celebrating this season's title cakewalk at the home of their
bitter rivals.

That adds up to a sum of just over £300,000 and it's money Rangers need to get their hands on as quickly as possible.

Administrators Duff and Phelps are still trying to track down the missing millions from Whyte's £24.4m deal with Ticketus as they attempt to find enough money to cover next month's wage bill. And, as if the financial carnage at Ibrox was not already chaotic enough, the club was yesterday hit with a £50,000 fine from the PLUS Market due to Whyte's failure to disclose his seven-year directorship ban.

Head administrator Paul Clark is expected to hold a further round of crisis talks with manager Ally McCoist today as the club braces itself for even more bad news.

The fear among players and staff is that the axe is likely to fall tomorrow unless more funds are found immediately to cover the running costs.

McCoist, though, despite the latest in a long line of misinformed reports in Whyte's pet paper, the Scottish Sun, will refuse to select which players stay and which go.

Instead, the manager will attempt to broker a deal to save jobs by slashing his own salary and asking his first-team squad to do the same to help the club survive without the need for job losses.

Rangers had hoped the £300,000 from Celtic would help tide them over but the administrators will have to find cash from elsewhere if swingeing cuts are to be avoided. 

[Ulick]

Alex Thomson from Channel 4 News picking up on the story...

The dangers of Rangers tax shambles
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/dangers-rangers-tax-shambles/850

Monday 12 March 2012 6:33 pm
Alex Thomson

Last week I asked for non-Rangers and Celtic fans in Scotland to give me their observations on the current Ibrox detox. Several hundred emails later, I surface to bring you the first of a series of blogs.

First of all, a big thank you for the hundreds of emails and tweets. It is clear that very few Scottish football fans are of the Ahmedinejad tendency – almost nobody wishes to see Rangers "wiped off the map". But when it does come to proper and fitting punishment, a strong consensus exists, of which more later.

What comes through strongly is the belief that the Rangers debacle is a genuine opportunity to rebuild Scottish football on a more interesting and fairer model. Ramsey spoke for almost everyone when he wrote: "Most see this as the perfect opportunity to better the league and the game as a whole." A chance to recreate genuine competition in the SPL and consider wider matters beyond the "the self-interest of not just the old firm but the entire SPL."
The key observation, though, is that the current focus on owner Craig Whyte and declaration of his not being "fit and proper" to run a football club is missing the point.

As non-Old Firm fans see it, the decade or more long practice at Rangers of allegedly paying players one amount for tax purposes, but another larger amount to save around £45m on tax via so-called employee benefit trusts, began way before Whyte. Legal or illegal. A least one former director has publically confirmed this too.

Rosaleen said: "It all stemmed from before Whyte's arrival, and yet nobody up here from the media is doing any serious investigating beyond him!"

Though that doesn't square with recent significant revelations in both the Sun and Mail shedding light on Rangers' alleged practice of paying stars one sum, but telling the authorities they were paying another, to save millions in tax. We await judgement from a tax tribunal as to whether or not this practice was legal. That this actually happened is not apparently in dispute, it is the legality that is under question.

And here we get to a huge groundswell of opinion from aggrieved fans beyond the Glasgow cauldron (pace Partick Thistle). Because the rules clearly state that you have to tell the authorities full details of player contracts or they are ineligible. If Rangers did not do this – and it is still an "if" pending that tribunal – a decade of silverware, championships and glory is under possible forfeit. The stakes could not be higher.

If that is the case, Tony writes: "In effect Rangers have fielded many players over many years in all competitions who were ineligible to play. This is confirmed by former Rangers director Hugh Adam last week and is subject to a current commission of inquiry by the Scottish Premier League."

And it was also confirmed by Mr Adam, who told the Mail the practice had gone on for longer than a decade and predated the SPL.

What many fans cannot understand, though, is how key individuals in the game were serving both as directors of Rangers FC and on the Scottish FA and SPL. The job of directors – beyond trotting along to Ibrox and sitting in the box in a suit – is to oversee proper governance of the football club.

Campbell Ogilvie, for instance, is current president of the SFA and was not only a director of Rangers during the period under investigation, but also company secretary of the club. It was his job to know about contractual arrangements with players.

So far Mr Ogilvie has not stood aside from his current role whilst the SPL investigation is under way. How many such contracts were signed? How many did he see? Did he know about them at all? If he did, did he sanction them being signed off? If he didn't – why wasn't he doing his job? Is there not a conflict of interest in his current position?

We are currently putting these and other questions to Mr Ogilvie via the SFA, but as things stand we are told he is not doing any interviews but is "distancing himself from the current investigations". When we asked if he has formally stood aside, pending the outcome of the investigation, we were told he has not.

As one fan put it: "If it is held to be true that Rangers, in implementing an unlawful tax evasion scam on a huge scale, fielded ineligible payers, whilst those responsible were serving as directors of the regulatory and licensing bodies, we can say with certainty that the game of football in Scotland has been corrupt for 15 years or so."

One Clydebank supporter put it thus: "I am now reading that I've been ploughing my hard-earned cash into a league that has effectively been rigged in favour of one big side ... but now I'm expected to just move on."

This is the key area fans want some answers about and where – right or wrong – they feel they are being short-changed by what they see – time and time again – as an over-cosy relationship between the Old Firm, the SFA and SPL, and the Glasgow media.

One oft-repeated refrain is: "The media in Glasgow keep telling us how much Scottish football needs Rangers – what they mean is how much they need Rangers, not Scottish football."

Nobody likes a cheat in sport. And here it's claimed we have one in the shape of the loudest, biggest club with what some see as a tawdry history of bigotry, violent fans and a frankly supremacist culture. So when the bully and the cheat gets his come-uppance, there will be some vitriol.

If anything, though, I was surprised by the considered responses most made to Rangers' implosion.

But of course there's real anger out there: "We have been duped ... for 15 years," wrote one fan, "and we are now sinking the boot into the perpetrators of the deceit. They have had a few days of pain. We've suffered nearly two decades. To hell with them and all who support them or feel sorry for them. They are cheats, simple as that."

Well, it is for the HMRC and the tribunal process to decide if Rangers FC was in fact and law a criminal and cheating organisation in the period under examination. But we can say there's already evidence starting to emerge in public to support that as yet unproven allegation.

With the clock ticking at Ibrox, fans across Scotland are not short of ideas about what should happen. But as I said, remarkably few want Rangers wiped from the face of the earth. They just want existing rules implemented – a near-revolutionary suggestion, it would seem, given the current unfolding saga at the top of the Scottish game.

Coming up next: Crime and Punishment – What to do with Rangers Football Club; should they be found guilty; and is liquidation the only way out?

Follow @alextomo on Twitter.

[Ulick]

More from @alextomo on Twitter today:
alex thomson (@alextomo)
13/03/2012 10:45
#rangers SFA say President Campbell Ogilvie is 'distancing himself from the current Rangers investigation' but did not explain how.

alex thomson (@alextomo)
13/03/2012 10:45
SFA told #c4news Campbell Ogilvie 'did not know' about EBT contract when he was Rangers FC secretary?

alex thomson (@alextomo)
13/03/2012 10:46
When we asked why not - thaty was his job - SFA said they didn't know.

alex thomson (@alextomo)
13/03/2012 10:47
SFA say their President and fmr Ranger secretary Campbell Ogilvie will not be interviewed by c4news about what he knew...

alex thomson (@alextomo)
13/03/2012 10:47
SFA say their President Campbell Ogilvie 'has no plans to stand aside from his job pending current Rangers probes...

alex thomson (@alextomo)
13/03/2012 10:59
Interesting SFA have just accused me of 'lying', 'pig-headedness' and then put the phone down mid-conversation....

alex thomson (@alextomo)
13/03/2012 11:00
all because I put their own statement back to them that Campbell Ogilvie denied knowing about EBTs at Rangers...

alex thomson (@alextomo)
13/03/2012 11:00
And suggested there might be a perceived conflict of interest in his current position until the investigations are complete

[LondonCamanachd]

I would not quite put you on the same shelf with McNee, but don't provoke me

I'll take offence to that.

I'm a far better journalist. 

[LondonCamanachd]

if Celtic and Rangers were wiped of the planet, there would still be massive problems in scotland with violence and tribalism- would you not agree?

They wouldn't be any where near as severe.  it costs the police £2.4 million to police the old firm fixture.  Domestic violence increases massively around the fixture.

The Old Firm aren't independent of Scotland's social problems, rather, they act as an intensifier and mulitplier by throwing extra bigotry and tribalism into areas where poverty, alcoholism etc are already rife.

[LondonCamanachd]

also what point are you making or trying to make by saying this 'Kevin Lynch players' - is there any particular reason why you point this out?

The two posters identiying themselves as Kevin Lynch players have shown themselves to be ignorant on Scottish football, and Scotland in general.

[Croí na hÉireann]

also what point are you making or trying to make by saying this 'Kevin Lynch players' - is there any particular reason why you point this out?

The two posters identiying themselves as Kevin Lynch players have shown themselves to be ignorant on Scottish football, and Scotland in general.