O'Donoughue starts ranting again...

[dublinfella]

Christ Dublinfella i've heard of planning alright, surely if the minister and council wanted it planning wouldnt be a minor issue. They managed to get planning for a 50k seater in the middle of ballsbridge i think they would solve this extension ...

but they dont. thats the point. plannig permission is in place for a 10,000 seater ground as per the SD county managers plan. the only delay on this project is a nuiscance suit from a club who have admitted they wont even use the place.

Well seems to me the free stadium thing is pretty much accurate, see below ...

How much of an investment towards the total cost of the operation have Sham Rovs actually staked?

The figure mentioned of SRFC's financial contribution to date is €2m

Of which €1.5 or €1.9m -came from Lotto Grants.
And guess what GAA lads - something to really piss you off - the Council had to pay almost €1.5m to get the lease back !!!!!! (Seriously  source- my "mole" in the SD Council.)
So the Lotto pays for 75 or 95% of the work done;then they get €1.5m to get off the stage and then they get a free Stadium which is estimated will cost €11m. I suspect with the Irish and Government way of doing things that will be about €15m+ before this saga is over.

So his mole says. That information is a whisper so you will understand me taking it with a pinch of salt. in 2005 the amount announced was €4m to complete it. now its €15+ because a bloke says it on the internet?

[lynchbhoy]

Christ Dublinfella i've heard of planning alright, surely if the minister and council wanted it planning wouldnt be a minor issue. They managed to get planning for a 50k seater in the middle of ballsbridge i think they would solve this extension ...

but they dont. thats the point. plannig permission is in place for a 10,000 seater ground as per the SD county managers plan. the only delay on this project is a nuiscance suit from a club who have admitted they wont even use the place.

Well seems to me the free stadium thing is pretty much accurate, see below ...

How much of an investment towards the total cost of the operation have Sham Rovs actually staked?

The figure mentioned of SRFC's financial contribution to date is €2m

Of which €1.5 or €1.9m -came from Lotto Grants.
And guess what GAA lads - something to really piss you off - the Council had to pay almost €1.5m to get the lease back !!!!!! (Seriously  source- my "mole" in the SD Council.)
So the Lotto pays for 75 or 95% of the work done;then they get €1.5m to get off the stage and then they get a free Stadium which is estimated will cost €11m. I suspect with the Irish and Government way of doing things that will be about €15m+ before this saga is over.

So his mole says. That information is a whisper so you will understand me taking it with a pinch of salt. in 2005 the amount announced was €4m to complete it. now its €15+ because a bloke says it on the internet?

come off it DF
have you ever heard of inflation ?
There is no way now unless you lads all volunteer to do the work for nothing that you will bring in a project for under 10M
I ams sure that it will be closer to 20 the way things have gone in recent years.

Also TD might not need to use the grounds, but they are obv fronting the concerns of the Dublin county board who WOULD use the grounds - if they COULD use the grounds (ie the pitch was big enough). TD would also be playing on it in a championship match I would guarantee you!


Planning perm is granted for a 10k stand - there is no problem with this being altered ...
the stand could remain where it is - in the middle of the pitch with the two ends elongated..
whats the problem there

only issue is if the main stand had to be toppled and re-built.
Still - it would be a great municipal resource for ALL sports in this event, and not just a stadium built for rovers for nothing - and the kids in the area maybe getting the odd game on it out of soccer season.....

[dublinfella]

come off it DF
have you ever heard of inflation ?
There is no way now unless you lads all volunteer to do the work for nothing that you will bring in a project for under 10M
I ams sure that it will be closer to 20 the way things have gone in recent years.

300% in 2 years? anyway, the contracts are signed, builders are ready to go. the costs have been fixed.

Also TD might not need to use the grounds, but they are obv fronting the concerns of the Dublin county board who WOULD use the grounds - if they COULD use the grounds (ie the pitch was big enough). TD would also be playing on it in a championship match I would guarantee you!

but you arent allowed 'front' for others in the Irish court system. you have to prove you are directly affected to sue. this is a profound tenent of our legal system. it was a major balls up by TD to admit this, one apparently the Rovers barrister was all over like a rash. The DCB should be taking this case if the stadium is wanted for the Dubs. Were they even aware TD were taking the case on their behalf?

Planning perm is granted for a 10k stand - there is no problem with this being altered ...
the stand could remain where it is - in the middle of the pitch with the two ends elongated..
whats the problem there

big problem with it being altered, planning permission would need to be reapplied for. another 2 years delay (see the pattern in TD delaying this). the stand apparently cannot remain and a gaa pitch be fitted in.

planning permission is for 2 stands of 3,000 and 2 stands of 2,000. remove two and reduce the other 2 and what have you?

only issue is if the main stand had to be toppled and re-built.

quite a significant 'issue' surely. you are ignoring the fact that foundations are in place for the entire venue as planned and planning process eould need to be redone and a new stadium designed. so there is quite a great deal more to this than just a bit of tinkering.


and we are still on the 'for nothing' argument.

[Romeo]

come off it DF
have you ever heard of inflation ?
There is no way now unless you lads all volunteer to do the work for nothing that you will bring in a project for under 10M
I ams sure that it will be closer to 20 the way things have gone in recent years.

You obviously haven't been paying attention to how much volunteering goes on at the 'New' Rovers, not to mention the community spirit!

[Lone Shark]

come off it DF
have you ever heard of inflation ?
There is no way now unless you lads all volunteer to do the work for nothing that you will bring in a project for under 10M
I ams sure that it will be closer to 20 the way things have gone in recent years.

You obviously haven't been paying attention to how much volunteering goes on at the 'New' Rovers, not to mention the community spirit!

Let's get this straight Romeo - is that you saying explicitly that Shamrock Rovers members will be volunteering their time during the construction of the stadium, with no direct personal quid pro quo? How many people, how many hours and what kind of work are we talking about here?

Either this is very interesting new information, or else I suspect that your point was, well, pointless.

[lynchbhoy]

300% in 2 years? anyway, the contracts are signed, builders are ready to go. the costs have been fixed.

but you arent allowed 'front' for others in the Irish court system. you have to prove you are directly affected to sue. this is a profound tenent of our legal system. it was a major balls up by TD to admit this, one apparently the Rovers barrister was all over like a rash. The DCB should be taking this case if the stadium is wanted for the Dubs. Were they even aware TD were taking the case on their behalf?

big problem with it being altered, planning permission would need to be reapplied for. another 2 years delay (see the pattern in TD delaying this). the stand apparently cannot remain and a gaa pitch be fitted in.

planning permission is for 2 stands of 3,000 and 2 stands of 2,000. remove two and reduce the other 2 and what have you?

quite a significant 'issue' surely. you are ignoring the fact that foundations are in place for the entire venue as planned and planning process eould need to be redone and a new stadium designed. so there is quite a great deal more to this than just a bit of tinkering.


and we are still on the 'for nothing' argument.
[/quote]

If the prices were fixed 2 years ago, just wait to you see how this price did not indlude etc etc etc and it will not be the 4million you and the rovers lads believe it is.
If this is brought in on that cost - then I will be amazed (as will most of the Dublin's building community) - and I will be dying to know how you managed it! Honestly.
Might not be allowed to 'front' but as part of the same organisation this is not really illegal I suppose - the reasoning all is tied into the last point - to be addressed at the end.
OK with the planning - thats cut and dried, the only alternative for this is having one 3000 and maybe the two 2000 stands at either end - which I believe what you think and will need further planning permission (Would take time but I'd say they would get it).

The crux is with the funding.
If Rovers and gov came out with the line that this is going to be a soccer/rugby stadium that can be used by the community for whatever games /events they wanted - then fair enough.
They are trying to say this is a municipal stadium that all sports can use including Gaelic football- therefore its a public sports ground.

As senior Gaelic football cannot be played in this, it is not an All sports municipal stadium, but a soccer (and potentially rubgy) community stadium.
Lawn bowls and tennis could also be played there, but as they dont take up a whole lot of room, but as the playing surface could never be good enough for them,they are equally excluded.
Likewise cricket and athletics.

The gov realised that they are paying for this project - and I have heard previous financial testimony many months ago saying more or less what Rossfan says about the grants given torovers and that they didnt have a penny to their name themselves - only what had been granted to them.
So the gov know that by building a stadium for this project, it sets a dangerous precedent in the country - with the thoughts of rectification ringing in their tiny minds - creating the 'community/municipal' aspect to the project to try and hide their gaffe.

The GAA obv see this and dont like the lie going out that they are included in this project.
They are not.
Playing kiddies games is damn all. These can be played on almost any green site around Dublin - and freq are (my local area being a prime example where a small 'park' is used by St Thomas Castleknock for all their underage games/training for boys and girls hurling and football) so the stadium is not going to really be used by them - a pure token gesture.

I can understand why rovers fans are peed off with this as they want their own grounds and this hold up is annoying.

The gov should call it what it is - a rovers stadium
Rovers should accept that their funding is completely Gov based.
The gov should help push through the rathcoole planning permission
the gov then should get ready for the onslaught of GAA stadia funding requests.

[Romeo]

come off it DF
have you ever heard of inflation ?
There is no way now unless you lads all volunteer to do the work for nothing that you will bring in a project for under 10M
I ams sure that it will be closer to 20 the way things have gone in recent years.

You obviously haven't been paying attention to how much volunteering goes on at the 'New' Rovers, not to mention the community spirit!

Let's get this straight Romeo - is that you saying explicitly that Shamrock Rovers members will be volunteering their time during the construction of the stadium, with no direct personal quid pro quo? How many people, how many hours and what kind of work are we talking about here?

Either this is very interesting new information, or else I suspect that your point was, well, pointless.

If you were to believe some of the comments, maybe it will happen with all the 'Peace to all men' attitude of the 'New Rovers'

[tayto]

Judicial review granted. 20th April date set.

Seems the judge hasnt fallen for this "new when it suits us" Shamrock Rovers stuff.

[ludermor]

There is no way a builder will have fixed there rates 2 years ago. The contract would have been void by now.
The price of steel doubled in 2005/2006.

[Bord na Mona man]

While I believe Shamrock Rovers are unworthy of such largess, I think the GAA should leave them to it.
Are we too worried about principals over the practical implications?
If the GAA gets its way, I don't think the stadium will be a particularly good asset to have.
There would be too much demand on the facilities from all sides. The pitch would be rubbish with so many games. I believe that trying to put soccer and GAA pitches on the one space will never work.

Remarking the pitch every second night when one code plays a game there, would be a complete pain.
Goal posts would need to be taken constantly erected and taken down since there would (and should) be several teams getting the usage of the facilities. There would be so many logistical problems that I'd much rather stick to having GAA grounds for GAA games and let the others to do their own thing.

Why are people so drawn on this particular site? I think people are more concerned with blocking Rovers, than acquiring an asset (of dubious value) for the GAA. Are there not plenty of other green field site in Dublin where a GAA ground can be built?
There is the Rathcoole project, but I'm sure there could be plenty of other sites that could be used.
Let the precedent be set by Shamrock Rovers. Other GAA projects should then demand almost total funding from local councils. The real injustice would be if GAA projects didn't get the same level of funding.

This case has the resonance of someone who works for a living taking a couch potato to court because they feel he doesn't deserve his social welfare payments. If you are the big dog, you have to get used to these things.

[tayto]

Well i've said it before but Tallaght is much easier to get to then Rathcoole, it'd be as easy for me to get to Parnell Park.

More like someone who works taking the couch potato to court because he's getting a five bedroom house with swimming pool built for him as reward for his incompetitance.

[Bord na Mona man]

Well i've said it before but Tallaght is much easier to get to then Rathcoole, it'd be as easy for me to get to Parnell Park.

Grand, but Croke Park is easier to get to for Northside soccer fans, but it's hardly reason enough to make it the permanent home for the Irish soccer team?
There are plenty of other green spaces in Tallaght that have nothing on them except shopping trolleys and burnt out cars. Would you settle for a GAA stadium on one of these instead?

[bottlethrower7]

bord na mona, its a facility in an area of Dublin where its badly needed. The GAA were told they could be part of it, then that was reneged on. A facility that the GAA have access to is needed and if John O'Donoghue wants to build us a seperate one, well and good, we'll happily leave the other one for whoever else wants it. Thats not on the cards. Rathcoole isn't touted for that use either, and as tayto says, its not a great location for a lot of south dublin to access. Tallaght on the other hand has a multitude of GAA clubs within a 6-7 mile radius.

This issue has nothing to do with Shamrock Rovers. Its to do with the GAA in that locality pushing for what they were once promised.

[tayto]

Well i've said it before but Tallaght is much easier to get to then Rathcoole, it'd be as easy for me to get to Parnell Park.

Grand, but Croke Park is easier to get to for Northside soccer fans, but it's hardly reason enough to make it the permanent home for the Irish soccer team?
There are plenty of other green spaces in Tallaght that have nothing on them except shopping trolleys and burnt out cars. Would you settle for a GAA stadium on one of these instead?

But you're not comparing like with like, Croke Park is owned by the GAA this is a municipal faciltiy, dont want to go through this again.

If the DCB get to pay 2 million [a dubious 2 million at that] and get an 11 million stadium from SDCC then i'd be happy enough. But it Won't happen of course, the GAA will have to stump up at least half the cash if not more.

[Bord na Mona man]

bord na mona, its a facility in an area of Dublin where its badly needed. The GAA were told they could be part of it, then that was reneged on. A facility that the GAA have access to is needed and if John O'Donoghue wants to build us a seperate one, well and good, we'll happily leave the other one for whoever else wants it. Thats not on the cards. Rathcoole isn't touted for that use either, and as tayto says, its not a great location for a lot of south dublin to access. Tallaght on the other hand has a multitude of GAA clubs within a 6-7 mile radius.

This issue has nothing to do with Shamrock Rovers. Its to do with the GAA in that locality pushing for what they were once promised.

Grand, but really I don't see the attraction in this particular site.
By all means put the heat on Zero O'Donoghue and expose his buffoonery, but I'd hope the strategy is to squeeze a better site for GAA purposes, rather than simply to get into the Tallaght site.
I'd hope there is some sort of bargaining going on in the background and that the sole strategy of Dublin GAA is not just to pursue the case via the courts.

At a push, I would have agreed with the original plan of the DCB to take over the site and let Rovers senior team in the odd time, because of the opportunistic value of it and that the GAA would have the running of it. But since then Rovers have been clever in managing to re-invent their image as some sort of caring community based club with all the talk of youth teams and the like playing in the new ground.
The best time to get onto the site was when Rovers were welching on debts, not paying players, falsifying accounts and leaving any unfortunate businesses that dealt with them out of pocket.