NI's future in the United Kingdom could depend on Catholics - Robinson

[thejuice]

When a majority (Unionists) in one part of an island (Ireland) demand the right to self-determination for themselves etc, that is seeking "homeland" status.

Ah see, look what the Dubs started with their "Blue Wave".

[guy crouchback]

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Re: NI's future in the United Kingdom could depend on Catholics - Robinson
« Reply #86 on: Today at 03:19:42 PM »
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Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2011, 04:56:04 PM

    Northern Ireland is always going to be a bit of both British and Irish, isn't it?  If the GFA gives some sort of parity of esteem to Nationalists  as a minority then when the table are turned the Protestants will have to get the same treatment. The Brits are very kind to fund the whole charade. They broke it so they should fix it.

    I though David Adams' piece on Michael D was very good

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/1117/1224307704567.html

The position of (so-called) "Loyalists" like Davy Adams in the post-Troubles world is a curious one. For having been resoundingly and consistently rejected by their "own" community at the Polls, they are reduced to scrounging around for a wee bit of consideration whereever they can get it.

And seeing as no-one anywhere in the UK gives a flying fcuk about any of them, that seems to mean Da Republik - as eg Jackie McDonald and his "New Best Friend" Mary McAleese demonstrated:


What with Gerry Adams fleeing to Louth, it's suggests parallels with Mauretania welcoming the dregs of the Gadaffi regime, or Idi Amin retiring to Saudi Arabia.

In fact, I'm tempted to say you're welcome to this motley assortment of thugs, gangsters and murderers etc, except that I wouldn't wish them upon my worst enemy, never mind the (overwhelmingly) good people of the ROI.

while the people of the ''ROI'' are undoubtedly good to consider them overwhelmingly good is i believe a step too far. they're grand that's about it, myself included.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

So have I got this straight?

When a majority minority (Unionists) in one part of a country (Ireland) demand the right to self-determination through force of arms for themselves etc, that is seeking "homeland" status.

But when the majority (Nationalists) in the same country simultaneously demand the right to self-determination for themselves (and everyone else in the country), that is somehow different invalid.

Straight now, that's how it was for your lot.

[Applesisapples]

He never gives up. And him that got on to the first boat back to the mainland.

[Applesisapples]

Last nights spotlight basically stated that the ROI owns the North!! Sammy wants a seat on the board of an Irish Government body...NAMA...British my arse!!

[Eamonnca1]

Surely every "Fenian" [sic] is as pure and uncompromising as ever in resisting the Crown and  the Half Crown... 

That old chestnut again? Fenians should refuse to accept the money they have earned because it happens to have a picture of the Queen on it? If they were truly patriotic they'd somehow do all of their business in Euros?

*snore*

[Rossfan]

He's on a roll!

Only for yourself and Stew he'd have the page to himself...someone must have hit a nerve!

/Jim

He's back on the oul steroids again 
Jasus but that was some output today.

[bennydorano]

Something I remember clearly from stupid arguments I was involved in on OWC many moons ago, was that when we reached a time when a UI seemed a genuine possibility (and would be voted for) a lot of the contingent on OWC thought it very fair that at that point the boundaries of NI should be redrawn again to rather than (once again) accepting the will of the majority.

As a discussion site for NI football fans, OWC is no more representative of Unionist thinking than, say, a  discussion site for GAA fans is of Nationalist thinking.

Or did you not happen to notice eg the majority support Marty McGuinness got on here for his presidential bid, as against the 13% of the vote that he actually got? 

Just relaying some anecdotal evidence of unionist 'thinking'.  I mentioned it as it has always stuck in my mind that some people will preach 'till they are blue in the face that they are democrats but  then, when it doesn't suit them, they'll think nothing of moving the goalposts and might quite possibly arm themselves (again) to subvert the democratic will of the majority (again).  All hypothetical off course but still representative of a section of unionist thinking - and to be honest I'd say a right percentage of DUP, TUV, PUP and a sneaky percentage of UUP would think it's quite legitimate and why wouldn't they? It worked the first time or have you forgotten about Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan?

[deiseach]

You know, you really should stop listening to the voices in your head, and start studying the reality of what is happening all around you.

EG, I gave you a pass the last time you played the man and not the ball with respect to me. Twice is careless.

I've explained the 'reality' of history and the present day, i.e. that Unionism reserves the right at all times to resist being forced into a united Ireland. All the talk of majorities/greater numbers/consent are a smoke screen for that reality.  You're free to disagree, although that means you believe that once 50% +1 of the population of Northern Ireland support an end to the Union the now-minority community will meekly accept the democratic will. Forgive me for being so . . . sceptical

As it happens, I think Ulster Unionist had a point back in the day. If the United Kingdom could be broken up, why not Ireland? The answer is that it can be, and it was. However, perhaps you would care to explain why Cyprus and South Africa must be kept whole. Or Northern Ireland, for that matter

[Main Street]

He's on a roll!

Only for yourself and Stew he'd have the page to himself...someone must have hit a nerve!

/Jim

He's back on the oul steroids again 
Jasus but that was some output today.

It's not steroids, it's the chronic insecurity and the fear -  the adrenal glands get overstimulated.

[Myles Na G.]

Something I remember clearly from stupid arguments I was involved in on OWC many moons ago, was that when we reached a time when a UI seemed a genuine possibility (and would be voted for) a lot of the contingent on OWC thought it very fair that at that point the boundaries of NI should be redrawn again to rather than (once again) accepting the will of the majority.

Seems about right. They insist they're entitled to a homeland, something that respectable opinion in Albion scoffs at when articulated by Turkish Cypriots or white South Africans.

So have I got this straight?

When a majority (Unionists) in one part of an island (Ireland) demand the right to self-determination for themselves etc, that is seeking "homeland" status.

But when the majority (Nationalists) in another part of the same island simultaneously demand the right to self-determination for themselves, that is somehow different?

You know, you really should stop listening to the voices in your head, and start studying the reality of what is happening all around you.

This would be a good place to start:
http://www.nio.gov.uk/agreement.pdf

If a majority of the people in the north east of England decided they wanted to establish their own Geordie homeland (and in population terms, their 'country' would be larger than NI), do you think they would be permitted to do so? Do you think they should be allowed to do so? What about the South West of England, which would be about the same size as NI and which boasts its own language and has always felt 'different' from the rest of England? Serious questions.

[ziggysego]

Something I remember clearly from stupid arguments I was involved in on OWC many moons ago, was that when we reached a time when a UI seemed a genuine possibility (and would be voted for) a lot of the contingent on OWC thought it very fair that at that point the boundaries of NI should be redrawn again to rather than (once again) accepting the will of the majority.

Seems about right. They insist they're entitled to a homeland, something that respectable opinion in Albion scoffs at when articulated by Turkish Cypriots or white South Africans.

So have I got this straight?

When a majority (Unionists) in one part of an island (Ireland) demand the right to self-determination for themselves etc, that is seeking "homeland" status.

But when the majority (Nationalists) in another part of the same island simultaneously demand the right to self-determination for themselves, that is somehow different?

You know, you really should stop listening to the voices in your head, and start studying the reality of what is happening all around you.

This would be a good place to start:
http://www.nio.gov.uk/agreement.pdf

If a majority of the people in the north east of England decided they wanted to establish their own Geordie homeland (and in population terms, their 'country' would be larger than NI), do you think they would be permitted to do so? Do you think they should be allowed to do so? What about the South West of England, which would be about the same size as NI and which boasts its own language and has always felt 'different' from the rest of England? Serious questions.

Well the Unionist majority in the North-Eastern part of Ireland were able to break away from the rest of the island, so I don't see the difference.

[deiseach]

If the Geordies armed themselves to the teeth demanding their independence, would you send your children to kill and be killed to prevent it?

[armaghniac]

Talk of the United Kingdom breaking up and comparing it with Ireland is not comparing like with like. Ireland was colonised and coerced into the UK, this coercion has to end, comparisons with other places are neither here not there.

[Evil Genius]

He never gives up. And him that got on to the first boat back to the mainland.

"First boat back"?

I was born in the UK, brought up in the UK, live in the UK and expect to die in the UK.

Just like eg Gerry Adams Sr., Joe Cahill, Brian Keenan, Martin Meehan and the rest...