Do they serve soup at Windsor Park?

[Cáthasaigh]

That's a rational and sensible argument and I don't disagree with any of it.

I do take issue with your view on the GFA referendum. I don't think people were conned.  If anything I'd suggest they knew more about it than most other things they vote on.

Few people have actually read the GFA or understand that it's actually intended to copperfasten British rule, too many have been deluded by lying politicians who glame it's a 'blueprint for unity' or whatever rubbish the shinners are spinning these days. The GFA was the product of Gerry Adams, Bertie Ahern and Tony Blair; three of the least trustworthy politicians imaginable so it has 'conjob' written all over it. People voted for the GFA as they were essentially given a choice 'GFA or war', if you were against the GFA you were pro-violence and this tactic crossed the border in the form of Fianna Fáil's 'vote yes for peace' campaign. The passing of the GFA and surrender of articles 2+3 was a classic case of manufactured consent and the Irish people got the worst out of it.

[Maguire01]

You don't need to have read that GFA from cover to cover to understand it. The basic principle (in terms of the constitutional issue) is that once a majority of the population in the 6 counties, plus a majority in the 26 counties, want a united Ireland, that will happen. It's not rocket science, so to suggest that the Irish people were conned is more than a bit disingenuous.

And Articles 2 and 3 didn't actually do very much in 60 odd years to advance unification, so I don't see that as a massive 'surrender'.

[Cáthasaigh]

You don't need to have read that GFA from cover to cover to understand it. The basic principle (in terms of the constitutional issue) is that once a majority of the population in the 6 counties, plus a majority in the 26 counties, want a united Ireland, that will happen. It's not rocket science, so to suggest that the Irish people were conned is more than a bit disingenuous.

And Articles 2 and 3 didn't actually do very much in 60 odd years to advance unification, so I don't see that as a massive 'surrender'.

There's nothing in it about a majority in the 26C. What it states is that a British SOS can call a referendum if s/he feels that it is likely to be successful and you can be sure that MI5 will be soclally engineering against such an eventuality. The internal referendum for the 6 is antidemocratic and enshrines a minority veto. The GFA contains absolutely no guarantee of a UI and recent statements by British PMs have clearly indicated that a UI will never be on the British agenda.

People were conned because they were and are still told that it would lead to unity when in effect it copperfastened British rule and constitutional sovereignty over the 6 was surrendered to the British with the result that what was internationally recognised as a dispute over territory between Britain and Ireland was henceforth a regional dispute within the UK.

[ziggysego]

So if th 6 counties voted for a 32 county, Irish Republic, you'd reject it because it wasn't a 32 county referendum?

[Eamonnca1]

Quite.

What do you think of Charles Stewart Parnell?

From what little I know of him he was a decent Irishman taken down by the British and Catholic establishments. His relevance to this debate?

OK then, how do you feel about SDLP people taking their seats in Westminster?

[Eamonnca1]

Few people have actually read the GFA or understand that it's actually intended to copperfasten British rule, too many have been deluded by lying politicians who glame it's a 'blueprint for unity' or whatever rubbish the shinners are spinning these days. The GFA was the product of Gerry Adams, Bertie Ahern and Tony Blair; three of the least trustworthy politicians imaginable so it has 'conjob' written all over it. People voted for the GFA as they were essentially given a choice 'GFA or war', if you were against the GFA you were pro-violence and this tactic crossed the border in the form of Fianna Fáil's 'vote yes for peace' campaign. The passing of the GFA and surrender of articles 2+3 was a classic case of manufactured consent and the Irish people got the worst out of it.

Translation: I don't like the way the people voted so I'm going to ignore their wishes.

[Maguire01]

You don't need to have read that GFA from cover to cover to understand it. The basic principle (in terms of the constitutional issue) is that once a majority of the population in the 6 counties, plus a majority in the 26 counties, want a united Ireland, that will happen. It's not rocket science, so to suggest that the Irish people were conned is more than a bit disingenuous.

And Articles 2 and 3 didn't actually do very much in 60 odd years to advance unification, so I don't see that as a massive 'surrender'.

There's nothing in it about a majority in the 26C. What it states is that a British SOS can call a referendum if s/he feels that it is likely to be successful and you can be sure that MI5 will be soclally engineering against such an eventuality. The internal referendum for the 6 is antidemocratic and enshrines a minority veto. The GFA contains absolutely no guarantee of a UI and recent statements by British PMs have clearly indicated that a UI will never be on the British agenda.

People were conned because they were and are still told that it would lead to unity when in effect it copperfastened British rule and constitutional sovereignty over the 6 was surrendered to the British with the result that what was internationally recognised as a dispute over territory between Britain and Ireland was henceforth a regional dispute within the UK.

Now we've established that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Few people have actually read the GFA

Yes, and you're one of them. The revised Article 3 reads as follows:

1. It is the firm will of the Irish nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island.

[Eamonnca1]

The GFA was all about the perpetuation of British rule in Ireland and anyone who classes themselves as a GAA supporter and cannot recognise that it was desiigned to ensure that an all Ireland would only exist in Croke Park finals is sorely deluded and unworthy of the mantle of the courageious men and women who established our national games.

[Cáthasaigh]

So if th 6 counties voted for a 32 county, Irish Republic, you'd reject it because it wasn't a 32 county referendum?

Hardly. Do you see a successful 6 county referendum happening any time soon?

[Cáthasaigh]

Translation: I don't like the way the people voted so I'm going to ignore their wishes.

Translation: Achtung, your opinion is verboten.

Fascist much?

[Cáthasaigh]

OK then, how do you feel about SDLP people taking their seats in Westminster?

I haven't much in the way of feelings for the stoops, they don't represent me and neither do the shinners; who will join them in Westminster in due course.

[Cáthasaigh]

Yes, and you're one of them. The revised Article 3 reads as follows:

1. It is the firm will of the Irish nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island.

What you're talking about here is seperate referenda. If there was a unilateral referendum in the 26 tomorrow and the people voted for unity they would be ignored. The only referendum that matters to the GFA is the one which can only be called when the British decide it can happen. The whole island should vote together in one referendum.

[magpie seanie]

I think you are wrong about the British position in this. I reckon if they could get out without being accused of causing a conflict they'd be gone in jig time. They don't give a shit about the 6 counties and would be glad to be shot of them.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Translation: I don't like the way the people voted so I'm going to ignore their wishes.

Translation: Achtung, your opinion is verboten.

Fascist much?

Cat you do realise you are the one coming across sounding like a fascist nutter.

[Eamonnca1]

Translation: I don't like the way the people voted so I'm going to ignore their wishes.

Translation: Achtung, your opinion is verboten.

Fascist much?