We Need an All-Star thread

[blast05]

In terms of the importance of the various parts of a keepers game to the overall makeup of a keeper, i would rate:
40% on kickouts.
20% for communicator, organiser, leader, motivator etc to the backs.
15% for playing as a sweeper.
15% for ability to deal with a high ball.
10% on shot-stopper

Cluxton is by a country mile the best on the kickouts. The amount of keepers that just bang it down the middle is shocking .... and even when they do direct it involves a huge change in their run up - so much so that any outfielder play would be able to read it and cover 40 yards to where they expect the kickout will land (think the Cork keeper here or McConnell). As an aisde .... how long before we see a keeper confident enough to kick it out with either foot .... the tee has been used for a good few years now and i would have expected this to have happened before now.
Masterson is the best as a sweeper (sure enough he plays his club football in midfield.
For communicator, organiser, motivator etc i think Gary Connaughton would be best.
High ball ...... again Gary Connaughton but i can recall a mistake or 2 cos of being over-ambitious. Robert Hennelly may prove to be good on this on in time.
Shot stopper.... leave that to others to debate. I don't think its that important, moreso given that i think there isn't a whole lot between most top keepers on this one anyway. Some keepers are forced into action on this one more than others and thus get a reputation as good shot stoppers.

I don't particularly rate McConnell (completely 1-dimensional on kickouts) nor did i ever think much of Murphy (average keeper on a great team - had an opportunity to make 2 or 3 saves in high profile games throughout his career and is remembered cos of it) while David Clarkes kick outs were and are atrocious for this level .... yes, he can kick them long but just pray there isn't a wind. If he had been playing in the Connacht final, some of his kickouts into the wind would have been liable to end up as 'own points' !


All in ...... Cluxton or Masterson for me.

[Jinxy]

It was example, another one would have been Connaughton in '08, he was outstanding.

The laziness I refered to was before the quarter finals each year being told Cluxton deserved the all star.

Certainly this year Paul durcan is as strong a contender as Cluxton, other than the 45's has he had any saves to make?

Cluxton is an integral part of Dublins gameplan.
They would be significantly weakened if he had to be replaced.
Could you say the same about Donegal and Durcan?
Cluxton is in a different league altogether to him.

[blanketattack]

In terms of the importance of the various parts of a keepers game to the overall makeup of a keeper, i would rate:
40% on kickouts.
20% for communicator, organiser, leader, motivator etc to the backs.
15% for playing as a sweeper.
15% for ability to deal with a high ball.
10% on shot-stopper

The only stats that really count, All-Ireland medals:
Murphy 4
Cluxton 0

[Jinxy]

That stat is completely irrelevant actually.

[Jinxy]

In terms of the importance of the various parts of a keepers game to the overall makeup of a keeper, i would rate:
40% on kickouts.
20% for communicator, organiser, leader, motivator etc to the backs.
15% for playing as a sweeper.
15% for ability to deal with a high ball.
10% on shot-stopper

Cluxton is by a country mile the best on the kickouts. The amount of keepers that just bang it down the middle is shocking .... and even when they do direct it involves a huge change in their run up - so much so that any outfielder play would be able to read it and cover 40 yards to where they expect the kickout will land (think the Cork keeper here or McConnell). As an aisde .... how long before we see a keeper confident enough to kick it out with either foot .... the tee has been used for a good few years now and i would have expected this to have happened before now.
Masterson is the best as a sweeper (sure enough he plays his club football in midfield.
For communicator, organiser, motivator etc i think Gary Connaughton would be best.
High ball ...... again Gary Connaughton but i can recall a mistake or 2 cos of being over-ambitious. Robert Hennelly may prove to be good on this on in time.
Shot stopper.... leave that to others to debate. I don't think its that important, moreso given that i think there isn't a whole lot between most top keepers on this one anyway. Some keepers are forced into action on this one more than others and thus get a reputation as good shot stoppers.

I don't particularly rate McConnell (completely 1-dimensional on kickouts) nor did i ever think much of Murphy (average keeper on a great team - had an opportunity to make 2 or 3 saves in high profile games throughout his career and is remembered cos of it) while David Clarkes kick outs were and are atrocious for this level .... yes, he can kick them long but just pray there isn't a wind. If he had been playing in the Connacht final, some of his kickouts into the wind would have been liable to end up as 'own points' !


All in ...... Cluxton or Masterson for me.

Masterson loses points for bawling like a child.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

In terms of the importance of the various parts of a keepers game to the overall makeup of a keeper, i would rate:
40% on kickouts.
20% for communicator, organiser, leader, motivator etc to the backs.
15% for playing as a sweeper.
15% for ability to deal with a high ball.
10% on shot-stopper

The only stats that really count, All-Ireland medals:
Murphy 4
Cluxton 0

Thats a bit unfair BA, while I don't rate Cluxton as the best goalkeeper around, he certainly is a very good keeper. You can't just rate a player on All-Ireland medals.

[RMDrive]

Cluxton is the best keeper I've seen. The only keeper in recent memory with a similar ability to pick passes and kickouts was Ronan Gallagher of Fermanagh, but Cluxton is a major step-up in all other aspects of the game.

I do like Donegal's current netminder. He's a throwback to the days when goalkeepers were reliable big lumps of men who could kick a ball really far. After a match I could imagine him immediately bypassing the changing room to sink a couple of pints of stout, washed down with a few cigs.

Give me a Cluxton ahead of him any day though. I'd prefer to play with 15 footballers rather than 14 and a keeper.

Papa plays full forward for his club, scoring 1-03 in a recent game IIRC. Plenty of football in all our boys 

[blanketattack]

In terms of the importance of the various parts of a keepers game to the overall makeup of a keeper, i would rate:
40% on kickouts.
20% for communicator, organiser, leader, motivator etc to the backs.
15% for playing as a sweeper.
15% for ability to deal with a high ball.
10% on shot-stopper

The only stats that really count, All-Ireland medals:
Murphy 4
Cluxton 0

Thats a bit unfair BA, while I don't rate Cluxton as the best goalkeeper around, he certainly is a very good keeper. You can't just rate a player on All-Ireland medals.

I do rate him, I just think he's hyped up too much because of his kickouts. Kickouts don't matter too much if you're leaving in 5 goals against the likes of Meath. The media love him and I think he got an undeserved All-Star in '02 because of this. Declan O'Keeffe had a terrific year, saving 2 penalties and about 10 point blank saves in the c'ship plus great kickouts as well but it was given to the media darling Cluxton instead.
Also I don't know if Cluxton has the bottle, when in possession of the ball in '07 against Kerry 30 yards out, he panicked and kicked the ball to a Kerry player which ended up with a Kerry point and stopped Dublin's momentum.

[Hardy]

In terms of the importance of the various parts of a keepers game to the overall makeup of a keeper, i would rate:
40% on kickouts.
20% for communicator, organiser, leader, motivator etc to the backs.
15% for playing as a sweeper.
15% for ability to deal with a high ball.
10% on shot-stopper

Cluxton is by a country mile the best on the kickouts. The amount of keepers that just bang it down the middle is shocking .... and even when they do direct it involves a huge change in their run up - so much so that any outfielder play would be able to read it and cover 40 yards to where they expect the kickout will land (think the Cork keeper here or McConnell). As an aisde .... how long before we see a keeper confident enough to kick it out with either foot .... the tee has been used for a good few years now and i would have expected this to have happened before now.
Masterson is the best as a sweeper (sure enough he plays his club football in midfield.
For communicator, organiser, motivator etc i think Gary Connaughton would be best.
High ball ...... again Gary Connaughton but i can recall a mistake or 2 cos of being over-ambitious. Robert Hennelly may prove to be good on this on in time.
Shot stopper.... leave that to others to debate. I don't think its that important, moreso given that i think there isn't a whole lot between most top keepers on this one anyway. Some keepers are forced into action on this one more than others and thus get a reputation as good shot stoppers.

I don't particularly rate McConnell (completely 1-dimensional on kickouts) nor did i ever think much of Murphy (average keeper on a great team - had an opportunity to make 2 or 3 saves in high profile games throughout his career and is remembered cos of it) while David Clarkes kick outs were and are atrocious for this level .... yes, he can kick them long but just pray there isn't a wind. If he had been playing in the Connacht final, some of his kickouts into the wind would have been liable to end up as 'own points' !


All in ...... Cluxton or Masterson for me.

If shot stopping is only of 10% importance in a goalie's job, I reckon he shouldn't be spending 100% of his time on the goal line. I'm not saying you're wrong but if you're right there's a case to be made for making much better use of our goalkeepers as general purpose defenders ranging all through the defensive area, sweeping, double-teaming the target man, acting as defensive midfielder or whatever. It'd be interesting to see it tried and see if the positive benefits (if any) outweighed the (10%?) increase in the risk of conceding goals.

[Jinxy]

There was very little Cluxton could do about any of those goals in the Meath game.
He basically had no full back line in front of him.

[Gold]

Deserves it for this alone

Brilliant!

[blast05]

In terms of the importance of the various parts of a keepers game to the overall makeup of a keeper, i would rate:
40% on kickouts.
20% for communicator, organiser, leader, motivator etc to the backs.
15% for playing as a sweeper.
15% for ability to deal with a high ball.
10% on shot-stopper

Cluxton is by a country mile the best on the kickouts. The amount of keepers that just bang it down the middle is shocking .... and even when they do direct it involves a huge change in their run up - so much so that any outfielder play would be able to read it and cover 40 yards to where they expect the kickout will land (think the Cork keeper here or McConnell). As an aisde .... how long before we see a keeper confident enough to kick it out with either foot .... the tee has been used for a good few years now and i would have expected this to have happened before now.
Masterson is the best as a sweeper (sure enough he plays his club football in midfield.
For communicator, organiser, motivator etc i think Gary Connaughton would be best.
High ball ...... again Gary Connaughton but i can recall a mistake or 2 cos of being over-ambitious. Robert Hennelly may prove to be good on this on in time.
Shot stopper.... leave that to others to debate. I don't think its that important, moreso given that i think there isn't a whole lot between most top keepers on this one anyway. Some keepers are forced into action on this one more than others and thus get a reputation as good shot stoppers.

I don't particularly rate McConnell (completely 1-dimensional on kickouts) nor did i ever think much of Murphy (average keeper on a great team - had an opportunity to make 2 or 3 saves in high profile games throughout his career and is remembered cos of it) while David Clarkes kick outs were and are atrocious for this level .... yes, he can kick them long but just pray there isn't a wind. If he had been playing in the Connacht final, some of his kickouts into the wind would have been liable to end up as 'own points' !


All in ...... Cluxton or Masterson for me.

If shot stopping is only of 10% importance in a goalie's job, I reckon he shouldn't be spending 100% of his time on the goal line. I'm not saying you're wrong but if you're right there's a case to be made for making much better use of our goalkeepers as general purpose defenders ranging all through the defensive area, sweeping, double-teaming the target man, acting as defensive midfielder or whatever. It'd be interesting to see it tried and see if the positive benefits (if any) outweighed the (10%?) increase in the risk of conceding goals.

How many times can you recall thinking to yourself after a goal was scored 'if the keeper had better reflexes he would have saved that' ..... or if he was more agile or whatever ? Very seldom for me anyway which is part of the rationale behind the low weighting i have given.
I disagree with only spending 10% of his time on the goal line cos of a 10% weighting .... if that was the case then you wouldn't have managers from the opposition giving out about the 5 balls they landed in the keepers hands - more celebrating the 5 goals ! .....i.e.: keepers don't spend such a relatively high percentage of their time in and around the goals to dive full length to pluck the ball out of the top corner - that's very much the exception.
However, i would agree with your logic of the need for a keeper in the modern game to act as a sweeper - anywhere within a 50m radius of the goals. And while not going as far as double teaming on the danger forward, that he could if required stand one side of say the full forward if it was say Donaghy with the full back the other side and depending on the direction/type of the ball that comes in then either the fullback or keeper play it with the other one dropping back into goals.

[thewobbler]

blast05, it's an interesting suggestion for Donaghy, but I wouldn't encourage any keeper to follow it. The thing about Star is that if all he has to do is get a fist on a ball, then he's going to outjump anybody and everybody, including every keeper in the land. It's when he has to catch the ball to continue the attack that it gives full-backs half a chance. If a goal is left unminded, then any ball dropping within 20 yards of it lends itself to a fist. He's not going to direct too many of them into the net, but it only takes one for the tactic never to be tried again!

[blast05]

blast05, it's an interesting suggestion for Donaghy, but I wouldn't encourage any keeper to follow it. The thing about Star is that if all he has to do is get a fist on a ball, then he's going to outjump anybody and everybody, including every keeper in the land. It's when he has to catch the ball to continue the attack that it gives full-backs half a chance. If a goal is left unminded, then any ball dropping within 20 yards of it lends itself to a fist. He's not going to direct too many of them into the net, but it only takes one for the tactic never to be tried again!

Ah now i was hardly suggesting that the keeper stand there and watch as Donaghy gets a flick on the ball on the 14 yards line and the ball rolls into the goals.
What i was suggesting as a possibility worth considering was that during open play, that the keeper play to one side of the full forward and the full back to the other. Depending on the ball that is played in either the keeper or the full back contest the ball against the full forward. If is straight into the full forward along the ground or chest high then the faster of the keeper or full back play it, if its to the left then which ever of the 2 of them was playing on the left, same to the right and if its a perfect high ball down the centre then which ever of them is better in the air. At all times, the player who is not contesting the ball with the full forward quickly drops back to the goal area .... and if he has to act as goalkeeper until the next break in play or whenever then so be it.

And if we see more keepers playing as 'sweepers' and if some time were to be inventive enough to have rotating keepers similar to example above, then would it not be time for the keeper to have the same colour jersey as everyone else ? The only thing a keeper can do that outfield players can not do (that i can think of) is pick the ball of the ground in the small box (and jersey identification helps here i guess for a referee) .... and if they get rid of the square ball rule then no need ?

[Hardy]

The only other rule specific to the keeper (that I can think of) is that you can't charge him in the small square. I have no idea what the logic behind that is and don't see why it shouldn't be scrapped too.