The Race for the ARAS.....

[Evil Genius]

I see the Spanish media is currently going ballistic over the fact that on a peace mission to the Basque country this week, Bertie Aherne charged £40000 for his contribution not including expenses.  Now they have also pointed out that Gerry Adams has contributed to this peace process over the years and what did he charge - zilcho, nothing!  Is this in any papers this morning?

I suspect he's already been paid:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/oct/06/northernireland.spain

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/colombian-army-fears-links-between-farc-eta-and-ira-666319.html

http://mattoid.com/data/Terrorism/basque_bombers_top_up_ira.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7634234.stm

yaaaawwwwnnnnn, christ is it bed time already?

If it's not keeping you up too late, I'm STILL waiting to find out directly from you whether eg Billy Wright is  is "no more to blame" for his victimhood than those poor people who were murdered by him (page 161, post #2414).

P.S. It's a simple Yes/No question, so there's no need for the deflection, ad hominem  attacks and whataboutery  etc which you used to avoid answering the last time 

[Applesisapples]

I see the Spanish media is currently going ballistic over the fact that on a peace mission to the Basque country this week, Bertie Aherne charged £40000 for his contribution not including expenses.  Now they have also pointed out that Gerry Adams has contributed to this peace process over the years and what did he charge - zilcho, nothing!  Is this in any papers this morning?

I suspect he's already been paid:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/oct/06/northernireland.spain

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/colombian-army-fears-links-between-farc-eta-and-ira-666319.html

http://mattoid.com/data/Terrorism/basque_bombers_top_up_ira.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7634234.stm

yaaaawwwwnnnnn, christ is it bed time already?

If it's not keeping you up too late, I'm STILL waiting to find out directly from you whether eg Billy Wright is  is "no more to blame" for his victimhood than those poor people who were murdered by him (page 161, post #2414).

P.S. It's a simple Yes/No question, so there's no need for the deflection, ad hominem  attacks and whataboutery  etc which you used to avoid answering the last time 

I thought I had clearly answered that in a previous post. Look back at it for the detail. But my position applies to Wright as much as it does to the Brits and the 'RA. Any way I had got distracted by Nally's defending SF on the use of partition for financial gain. Although what does single Wright out from others is his particular and deliberate targeting of innocent catholic's. But non the less as I said lets move on.

[Evil Genius]

I see the Spanish media is currently going ballistic over the fact that on a peace mission to the Basque country this week, Bertie Aherne charged £40000 for his contribution not including expenses.  Now they have also pointed out that Gerry Adams has contributed to this peace process over the years and what did he charge - zilcho, nothing!  Is this in any papers this morning?

This argument over the past few days has turned into partitionist versus non partitionist!  I see it as deeper than that.  Without disrespecting those of a partitionist mentality, I have found there to be a deeper cultural difference at play here.  Some Southerners have been so ensconced in a money culture, that they are immediately cynical about Adams and McGuinness taking only an average industrial wage and have levied at them some ignorant and unfair accusations about money.

I see it like this.  The celtic tiger promoted such a sense of individualism that people cannot comprehend it when they see people who don't care that much about monetary gain.  They scare them, they don't understand them!  When the country has been brought to its knees with the culture of Me Feinism, what do the Irish public do but fear and loath those who show them up for what they are.  For those who lived through the Celtic Tiger, it is easier to be partitionist than to face the fear of a social economiy where equality may be the order of the day! 

So what do they do?  Promote partitionism to stop it happening and bring back those in power who promote protecting the rich and bringing the country even further into the dustbin.  One thing the conflict did for Northerners was give them a much more civic pride in their own community and I for one thank God that I'm on this side of the border because of this.  MMcG will not get President!  The reason is nothing to do with his past, but because he can shine a light on this individualism that rots at Irelands core.  When will they learn - maybe never!  Its a shame

Thanks for that, Aoise. I must pass on this analysis to my sons and the rest of my family. They've been searching for ages for an analysis of what's wrong with them, why they're so unworthy and what they should do to aspire to the higher planes of moral rectitude peopled by yourself and the good people of the six counties, purified as you have been in the crucible of righteous conflict. I'm very grateful to you and your colleagues on these threads who have gone to the trouble in the last few days of pointing out to all of us down here how contemptible, shameful and undeserving we are and how indeed some of us are not even Irish by comparison with your good selves. I promise to try really, really hard to be better.

Be thankful you're only being lectured, condescended to and patronised, Hardy.

Those of us "Nordies" who fail to share Aoise's mindset have had to endure "sticks and stones" as well...

[Billys Boots]

I see the Spanish media is currently going ballistic over the fact that on a peace mission to the Basque country this week, Bertie Aherne charged £40000 for his contribution not including expenses.  Now they have also pointed out that Gerry Adams has contributed to this peace process over the years and what did he charge - zilcho, nothing!  Is this in any papers this morning?

This argument over the past few days has turned into partitionist versus non partitionist!  I see it as deeper than that.  Without disrespecting those of a partitionist mentality, I have found there to be a deeper cultural difference at play here.  Some Southerners have been so ensconced in a money culture, that they are immediately cynical about Adams and McGuinness taking only an average industrial wage and have levied at them some ignorant and unfair accusations about money.

I see it like this.  The celtic tiger promoted such a sense of individualism that people cannot comprehend it when they see people who don't care that much about monetary gain.  They scare them, they don't understand them!  When the country has been brought to its knees with the culture of Me Feinism, what do the Irish public do but fear and loath those who show them up for what they are.  For those who lived through the Celtic Tiger, it is easier to be partitionist than to face the fear of a social economiy where equality may be the order of the day! 

So what do they do?  Promote partitionism to stop it happening and bring back those in power who promote protecting the rich and bringing the country even further into the dustbin.  One thing the conflict did for Northerners was give them a much more civic pride in their own community and I for one thank God that I'm on this side of the border because of this.  MMcG will not get President!  The reason is nothing to do with his past, but because he can shine a light on this individualism that rots at Irelands core.  When will they learn - maybe never!  Its a shame

Thanks for that, Aoise. I must pass on this analysis to my sons and the rest of my family. They've been searching for ages for a proper explanation of what's wrong with them, why they're so unworthy and what they should do to aspire to the higher planes of moral rectitude peopled by yourself and the good people of the six counties, purified as you have been in the crucible of righteous conflict. I'm very grateful to you and your colleagues on these threads who have gone to the trouble in the last few days of pointing out to all of us down here how contemptible, shameful and undeserving we are and how indeed some of us are not even Irish by comparison with your good selves. I promise to try really, really hard to be better.

Wow, a new low!  But not wholly unexpected - and they claim we don't/won't understand them. 

[Ulick]

Thanks for that, Aoise. I must pass on this analysis to my sons and the rest of my family. They've been searching for ages for a proper explanation of what's wrong with them, why they're so unworthy and what they should do to aspire to the higher planes of moral rectitude peopled by yourself and the good people of the six counties, purified as you have been in the crucible of righteous conflict. I'm very grateful to you and your colleagues on these threads who have gone to the trouble in the last few days of pointing out to all of us down here how contemptible, shameful and undeserving we are and how indeed some of us are not even Irish by comparison with your good selves. I promise to try really, really hard to be better.

No don't, Aoise is obviously incorrect as the Staters were mostly miserable self-serving peasants well before before the Celtic Tiger came to town.

[Applesisapples]

I see the Spanish media is currently going ballistic over the fact that on a peace mission to the Basque country this week, Bertie Aherne charged £40000 for his contribution not including expenses.  Now they have also pointed out that Gerry Adams has contributed to this peace process over the years and what did he charge - zilcho, nothing!  Is this in any papers this morning?

This argument over the past few days has turned into partitionist versus non partitionist!  I see it as deeper than that.  Without disrespecting those of a partitionist mentality, I have found there to be a deeper cultural difference at play here.  Some Southerners have been so ensconced in a money culture, that they are immediately cynical about Adams and McGuinness taking only an average industrial wage and have levied at them some ignorant and unfair accusations about money.

I see it like this.  The celtic tiger promoted such a sense of individualism that people cannot comprehend it when they see people who don't care that much about monetary gain.  They scare them, they don't understand them!  When the country has been brought to its knees with the culture of Me Feinism, what do the Irish public do but fear and loath those who show them up for what they are.  For those who lived through the Celtic Tiger, it is easier to be partitionist than to face the fear of a social economiy where equality may be the order of the day! 

So what do they do?  Promote partitionism to stop it happening and bring back those in power who promote protecting the rich and bringing the country even further into the dustbin.  One thing the conflict did for Northerners was give them a much more civic pride in their own community and I for one thank God that I'm on this side of the border because of this.  MMcG will not get President!  The reason is nothing to do with his past, but because he can shine a light on this individualism that rots at Irelands core.  When will they learn - maybe never!  Its a shame

Thanks for that, Aoise. I must pass on this analysis to my sons and the rest of my family. They've been searching for ages for a proper explanation of what's wrong with them, why they're so unworthy and what they should do to aspire to the higher planes of moral rectitude peopled by yourself and the good people of the six counties, purified as you have been in the crucible of righteous conflict. I'm very grateful to you and your colleagues on these threads who have gone to the trouble in the last few days of pointing out to all of us down here how contemptible, shameful and undeserving we are and how indeed some of us are not even Irish by comparison with your good selves. I promise to try really, really hard to be better.

Hardy you can ignore Aoise I posted above on this. Basically the vast majority of Northern Nationalists would not hold that view. It was a wealthy minority in the South who lost the run of themselves in the Tiger Years and they had equivilents in the North as well. but as I pointed out we only caught the tail of the tiger so not as many were involved. But you only have to look at the NI developers in Nama to see that the greed did not recognise any border.

[Ulick]

Hardy you can ignore Aoise I posted above on this. Basically the vast majority of Northern Nationalists would not hold that view. It was a wealthy minority in the South who lost the run of themselves in the Tiger Years and they had equivilents in the North as well. but as I pointed out we only caught the tail of the tiger so not as many were involved. But you only have to look at the NI developers in Nama to see that the greed did not recognise any border.

Yeah right jack...

[Evil Genius]

If it's not keeping you up too late, I'm STILL waiting to find out directly from you whether eg Billy Wright is  is "no more to blame" for his victimhood than those poor people who were murdered by him (page 161, post #2414).

I thought I had clearly answered that in a previous post.

No you had not.

Look back at it for the detail.

I have done. As I said earlier, it was transparently an ad hominem  mix of deflection and whataboutery, designed to avoid giving a straight answer to a straight question.

But my position applies to Wright as much as it does to the Brits and the 'RA.

I was not asking you to compare the position of Wright and the Brits/IRA.

Any way I had got distracted by Nally's defending SF on the use of partition for financial gain.

OK. Now can you get back to my question?

Although what does single Wright out from others is his particular and deliberate targeting of innocent catholic's.

No-one is denying that Wright singled out entirely innocent people.

What I am trying to get at is this.  In your original post on this matter (Pg.159, #2383), you stated:
"No hierarchy of victims and no one more to blame than the next and every single death is a tragedy"

Are you saying that Billy Wright, himself a victim of The Troubles, is "no more to blame" for his own death than those Catholics he murdered?

But non the less as I said lets move on.

Is that a "Pat Finucane Move On" or a "Mary Travers Move On"? 

Either way,  a simple "Yes" or "No" from you and we can both move on...

[Declan]

Boylesports pay out on Higgins presidency bid
Friday, October 21, 2011 - 10:00 AM



Boylesports Bookmakers has announced that its paying out early on Labour's Michael D Higgins becoming the next President.

They have said he has been heavily backed from the moment his name was thrown into the ring.

The pay-out will cost Boyesport €125,000.

Sean Gallagher is currently second favourite and should he win, they will face with an additional pay-out of €100,000.

[Hardy]

Thanks for that, Aoise. I must pass on this analysis to my sons and the rest of my family. They've been searching for ages for a proper explanation of what's wrong with them, why they're so unworthy and what they should do to aspire to the higher planes of moral rectitude peopled by yourself and the good people of the six counties, purified as you have been in the crucible of righteous conflict. I'm very grateful to you and your colleagues on these threads who have gone to the trouble in the last few days of pointing out to all of us down here how contemptible, shameful and undeserving we are and how indeed some of us are not even Irish by comparison with your good selves. I promise to try really, really hard to be better.

No don't, Aoise is obviously incorrect as the Staters were mostly miserable self-serving peasants well before before the Celtic Tiger came to town.

Spoken like a true socialist.

[Tubberman]

I see the Spanish media is currently going ballistic over the fact that on a peace mission to the Basque country this week, Bertie Aherne charged £40000 for his contribution not including expenses.  Now they have also pointed out that Gerry Adams has contributed to this peace process over the years and what did he charge - zilcho, nothing!  Is this in any papers this morning?

This argument over the past few days has turned into partitionist versus non partitionist!  I see it as deeper than that.  Without disrespecting those of a partitionist mentality, I have found there to be a deeper cultural difference at play here.  Some Southerners have been so ensconced in a money culture, that they are immediately cynical about Adams and McGuinness taking only an average industrial wage and have levied at them some ignorant and unfair accusations about money.

I see it like this.  The celtic tiger promoted such a sense of individualism that people cannot comprehend it when they see people who don't care that much about monetary gain.  They scare them, they don't understand them!  When the country has been brought to its knees with the culture of Me Feinism, what do the Irish public do but fear and loath those who show them up for what they are.  For those who lived through the Celtic Tiger, it is easier to be partitionist than to face the fear of a social economiy where equality may be the order of the day! 

So what do they do?  Promote partitionism to stop it happening and bring back those in power who promote protecting the rich and bringing the country even further into the dustbin.  One thing the conflict did for Northerners was give them a much more civic pride in their own community and I for one thank God that I'm on this side of the border because of this.  MMcG will not get President!  The reason is nothing to do with his past, but because he can shine a light on this individualism that rots at Irelands core.  When will they learn - maybe never!  Its a shame

Thanks for that, Aoise. I must pass on this analysis to my sons and the rest of my family. They've been searching for ages for a proper explanation of what's wrong with them, why they're so unworthy and what they should do to aspire to the higher planes of moral rectitude peopled by yourself and the good people of the six counties, purified as you have been in the crucible of righteous conflict. I'm very grateful to you and your colleagues on these threads who have gone to the trouble in the last few days of pointing out to all of us down here how contemptible, shameful and undeserving we are and how indeed some of us are not even Irish by comparison with your good selves. I promise to try really, really hard to be better.

Hardy you can ignore Aoise I posted above on this. Basically the vast majority of Northern Nationalists would not hold that view. It was a wealthy minority in the South who lost the run of themselves in the Tiger Years and they had equivilents in the North as well. but as I pointed out we only caught the tail of the tiger so not as many were involved. But you only have to look at the NI developers in Nama to see that the greed did not recognise any border.

Apples, you come across as level-headed, reasonable, and willing to see the positives and faults on both sides of the border.
Thank God for that, because the likes of Ulick and Nally have had me seriously questioning if there is any way the people on this island could ever be united such are the differences of opinion on almost all matters, and in Ulick's case at least, downright contempt for the 'other side'.
It seems now that war is over within the 6 counties, he's ready to wage war against the south 

[Evil Genius]

Apples, you come across as level-headed, reasonable, and willing to see the positives and faults on both sides of the border.

Aye, so long as you don't mention any "hierarchy of victims"...

Thank God for that, because the likes of Ulick and Nally have had me seriously questioning if there is any way the people on this island could ever be united such are the differences of opinion on almost all matters,

I thought it was my job to make you question it, not the Shinners...

... and in Ulick's case at least, downright contempt for the 'other side'.

But don't you realise, now that Donagh Ulick and his Shinner mates are 'New Best Friends' with the likes of Peter Robinson, Gregory Campbell and Willie McCrea etc, they've had to "move on" in order to find someone else upon whom to vent their bile and hatred. 

It seems now that war is over within the 6 counties, he's ready to wage war against the south 

Aye, well, if he fails this new "war" so miserably as he failed the last one, then you've nothing to worry about.

Well except, maybe, a new volume of this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lost-Lives-Children-Northern-Troubles/dp/184018227X

[Ulick]

Thanks for that, Aoise. I must pass on this analysis to my sons and the rest of my family. They've been searching for ages for a proper explanation of what's wrong with them, why they're so unworthy and what they should do to aspire to the higher planes of moral rectitude peopled by yourself and the good people of the six counties, purified as you have been in the crucible of righteous conflict. I'm very grateful to you and your colleagues on these threads who have gone to the trouble in the last few days of pointing out to all of us down here how contemptible, shameful and undeserving we are and how indeed some of us are not even Irish by comparison with your good selves. I promise to try really, really hard to be better.

No don't, Aoise is obviously incorrect as the Staters were mostly miserable self-serving peasants well before before the Celtic Tiger came to town.

Spoken like a true socialist.

Grma, comrade. In the 19th century socialist John O'Gorman wrote of "impecunious peasant proprietary" being the most reactionary force in Ireland and compared the country to a "shuttlecock between the political tricksters" while thousands were out of work. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose...

[Ulick]

Duffy is about to play the Helen Lucy Burke / Norris interview: www.rte.ie

[sheamy]

Duffy is about to play the Helen Lucy Burke / Norris interview: www.rte.ie

lock up your nephews!