United Ireland

[Maguire01]

Now one of the biggest obstacles to reconciliation is the elephant in the living room that brings out the denial merchants in droves every time it's mentioned: Segregated education.

I'd say the other is segregated housing.

[Eamonnca1]

Now one of the biggest obstacles to reconciliation is the elephant in the living room that brings out the denial merchants in droves every time it's mentioned: Segregated education.

I'd say the other is segregated housing.

And why are they choosing to live separately? Because they were reared separately and feel more comfortable among their own than in mixed company.  Segregated housing is a consequence of segregated education.

[glens abu]

In any sort of longer term persepective why on Earth would a SF voter not want a UI? Was he a smuggler?

As i've said, because they might be seen to be useful in dealing with local issues.

The fact is that the current arrangements with the Assembly are actually making 'Northern Ireland' work for a lot of people. Most people probably aren't terribly politically motivated and are quite happy as long as there's stability. I'd imagine the current stability would be a contributor to the fall in desire for a major constitutional upheaval and the level of instability that would bring.

Note that whilst 54% of the Catholic respondants to the survey described themselves as Nationalists (45% described themselves as neither Nationalists or Unionists), only 33% wanted a United Ireland. That leaves 21% apparently describing themselves as Nationalists, but content with the current constitutional position. The current political settlement has given a lot of nationalists the rights and recognitions they didn't have for so long and probably thought they never would have under partition. For some, that's clearly enough.

Maguire dont believe all you read in a survey.

[Eamonnca1]

Maguire dont believe all you read in a survey.

I'm gonna take a closer look at that survey. From the article in the Belfast Telegraph they did warn that sometimes people can appear more moderate in a survey than they do in the privacy of a voting booth.

[glens abu]

Maguire dont believe all you read in a survey.

I'm gonna take a closer look at that survey. From the article in the Belfast Telegraph they did warn that sometimes people can appear more moderate in a survey than they do in the privacy of a voting booth.

Always do in the North, sure for years they told us that Republicians had no support.Ballot box is what counts.

[glens abu]

In any sort of longer term persepective why on Earth would a SF voter not want a UI? Was he a smuggler?

As i've said, because they might be seen to be useful in dealing with local issues.

The fact is that the current arrangements with the Assembly are actually making 'Northern Ireland' work for a lot of people. Most people probably aren't terribly politically motivated and are quite happy as long as there's stability. I'd imagine the current stability would be a contributor to the fall in desire for a major constitutional upheaval and the level of instability that would bring.

Note that whilst 54% of the Catholic respondants to the survey described themselves as Nationalists (45% described themselves as neither Nationalists or Unionists), only 33% wanted a United Ireland. That leaves 21% apparently describing themselves as Nationalists, but content with the current constitutional position. The current political settlement has given a lot of nationalists the rights and recognitions they didn't have for so long and probably thought they never would have under partition. For some, that's clearly enough.

Maguire dont believe all you read in a survey.

Hmmm, this is an easy "Guess the reply" competition.

My guess - "Don't believe all you read in An Phoblacht".

ha ha your right sure we all push are own angle on all subjects.The big difference is the ballot box doesn't say only 16% of taigs want a UI

[Myles Na G.]

The SNP is the largest party in Scotland, courtesy of the most recent election. Nevertheless, the SNP isn't falling over itself to organise an independence referendum. Why? Because it knows that at the moment it would lose it by a distance. In the same way, there are a great many Irish nationalists who would give their vote to SF or the SDLP quite happily, but who would vote against a united Ireland in a  referendum polll if it was to be held tomorrow. It's the economy, stupid.

(Last comment aimed specifically at Barry McElduff, who was on different media outlets yesterday arguing -basically - that the poll was flawed and that all SF / SDLP voters would vote for a UI.)

[Tony Baloney]

In any sort of longer term persepective why on Earth would a SF voter not want a UI? Was he a smuggler?

As i've said, because they might be seen to be useful in dealing with local issues.

The fact is that the current arrangements with the Assembly are actually making 'Northern Ireland' work for a lot of people. Most people probably aren't terribly politically motivated and are quite happy as long as there's stability. I'd imagine the current stability would be a contributor to the fall in desire for a major constitutional upheaval and the level of instability that would bring.

Note that whilst 54% of the Catholic respondants to the survey described themselves as Nationalists (45% described themselves as neither Nationalists or Unionists), only 33% wanted a United Ireland. That leaves 21% apparently describing themselves as Nationalists, but content with the current constitutional position. The current political settlement has given a lot of nationalists the rights and recognitions they didn't have for so long and probably thought they never would have under partition. For some, that's clearly enough.

Maguire dont believe all you read in a survey.

Hmmm, this is an easy "Guess the reply" competition.

My guess - "Don't believe all you read in An Phoblacht".

ha ha your right sure we all push are own angle on all subjects.The big difference is the ballot box doesn't say only 16% of taigs want a UI

The ballot box says nothing about the percentage of people wanting a UI. You may infer this from results.

[Maguire01]

In any sort of longer term persepective why on Earth would a SF voter not want a UI? Was he a smuggler?

As i've said, because they might be seen to be useful in dealing with local issues.

The fact is that the current arrangements with the Assembly are actually making 'Northern Ireland' work for a lot of people. Most people probably aren't terribly politically motivated and are quite happy as long as there's stability. I'd imagine the current stability would be a contributor to the fall in desire for a major constitutional upheaval and the level of instability that would bring.

Note that whilst 54% of the Catholic respondants to the survey described themselves as Nationalists (45% described themselves as neither Nationalists or Unionists), only 33% wanted a United Ireland. That leaves 21% apparently describing themselves as Nationalists, but content with the current constitutional position. The current political settlement has given a lot of nationalists the rights and recognitions they didn't have for so long and probably thought they never would have under partition. For some, that's clearly enough.

Maguire dont believe all you read in a survey.

Hmmm, this is an easy "Guess the reply" competition.

My guess - "Don't believe all you read in An Phoblacht".

I had no intention of mentioning An Phoblacht. But i wonder if the same people would be arguing the validity of the survey if it had been closer to the outcome they'd like(?)

[Maguire01]

In any sort of longer term persepective why on Earth would a SF voter not want a UI? Was he a smuggler?

As i've said, because they might be seen to be useful in dealing with local issues.

The fact is that the current arrangements with the Assembly are actually making 'Northern Ireland' work for a lot of people. Most people probably aren't terribly politically motivated and are quite happy as long as there's stability. I'd imagine the current stability would be a contributor to the fall in desire for a major constitutional upheaval and the level of instability that would bring.

Note that whilst 54% of the Catholic respondants to the survey described themselves as Nationalists (45% described themselves as neither Nationalists or Unionists), only 33% wanted a United Ireland. That leaves 21% apparently describing themselves as Nationalists, but content with the current constitutional position. The current political settlement has given a lot of nationalists the rights and recognitions they didn't have for so long and probably thought they never would have under partition. For some, that's clearly enough.

Maguire dont believe all you read in a survey.

Hmmm, this is an easy "Guess the reply" competition.

My guess - "Don't believe all you read in An Phoblacht".

ha ha your right sure we all push are own angle on all subjects.The big difference is the ballot box doesn't say only 16% of taigs want a UI

Have I missed a referendum? If you think the c.42% SF/SDLP votes transfers directly into a 42% 'yes' vote in a border pole, you're deluded.

And it's not 16% of 'taigs' - it's 33%; 16% is the overall survey figure.

[Rossfan]

Spotted this on RTE :-

The first of two Sinn Féin conferences on the unification of Ireland is taking place in Dublin today.

1 of 1  Gerry Adams - Party understood the importance of addressing the concerns of unionists The first of two Sinn Féin conferences on the unification of Ireland is taking place in Dublin.

The events involve a range of participants from business, economic, sporting, cultural and political backgrounds.

Writer Brian Keenan, who was held hostage in Beirut for four years, and the former UDP politician and columnist David Adams, are among those taking part in the conference at the Rotunda in Dublin.

A second conference will be held in Cork next Saturday.

Announcing the events earlier this month, Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams said his party understood the importance of addressing the concerns of unionists in a meaningful way to allow them to find their place in a new, shared Ireland.

Mr Adams said the vast majority of citizens on this island supported the goal of a united Ireland.

The conference comes after the results of a Life and Times Survey showed 52% of Catholics in Northern Ireland want it to remain part of the United Kingdom.

Many GAA Board contributors going ?

[Evil Genius]

In any sort of longer term persepective why on Earth would a SF voter not want a UI? Was he a smuggler?

As i've said, because they might be seen to be useful in dealing with local issues.

The fact is that the current arrangements with the Assembly are actually making 'Northern Ireland' work for a lot of people. Most people probably aren't terribly politically motivated and are quite happy as long as there's stability. I'd imagine the current stability would be a contributor to the fall in desire for a major constitutional upheaval and the level of instability that would bring.

Note that whilst 54% of the Catholic respondants to the survey described themselves as Nationalists (45% described themselves as neither Nationalists or Unionists), only 33% wanted a United Ireland. That leaves 21% apparently describing themselves as Nationalists, but content with the current constitutional position. The current political settlement has given a lot of nationalists the rights and recognitions they didn't have for so long and probably thought they never would have under partition. For some, that's clearly enough.

Maguire dont believe all you read in a survey.

Hmmm, this is an easy "Guess the reply" competition.

My guess - "Don't believe all you read in An Phoblacht".

ha ha your right sure we all push are own angle on all subjects.The big difference is the ballot box doesn't say only 16% of taigs want a UI

Actually, the big difference is that when people vote in an election (W'minster, Stormont, council etc), they aren't voting in a referendum on a UI, they are voting on a whole variety of issues, for a whole variety of reasons.

Whereas this Opinion Poll was asking people how they would vote in a Referendum on a UI. As such, the latest results only confirm the trend from previous Polls, eg 2009:
http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2009/Political_Attitudes/NIRELND2.html

Conclusion?

It's over, you've lost, come back to us again in 2116... 

[SuperMac]

Actually, the big difference is that when people vote in an election (W'minster, Stormont, council etc), they aren't voting in a referendum on a UI, they are voting on a whole variety of issues, for a whole variety of reasons.

Whereas this Opinion Poll was asking people how they would vote in a Referendum on a UI. As such, the latest results only confirm the trend from previous Polls, eg 2009:
http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2009/Political_Attitudes/NIRELND2.html

Conclusion?

It's over, you've lost, come back to us again in 2116...   

The opinion poll is a load of bollox - This is the same 'accurate' survey that puts 2010 political party support at - DUP 18%, SDLP 17%, UUP 16%, Sinn Fein 11%, Alliance 10%
http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2010/Polit.../POLPART2.html

But how people actually voted in 2010 - DUP 24.96%, SDLP 16.47%, UUP 15.19%, SF 25.52

And here's how people have voted over the last 40 years -

1969 – Unionists 67.4%  Nationalists 18.8%
2010 – Unionists 50.6%  Nationalists  41.9%
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/politics/election/electsum.htm

British occupation has two, at most three decades left. If we can wait 8 centuries that time will fly by.
Tick ,tock ,tick, tock   

[Applesisapples]

This United Ireland business is complicated. I would guess that a lot of voters North and South would be swayed by what it would mean to them financially. I may be a supporter of a UI but I'll bet you mine wouldn't look the same as that proposed by others. The GFA has however put in place a system that is designed to work either as part of the UK or as part of a UI and will protect the interests of the minority in both cases. It is not inconceivable that Nationalist in 15 to 20 years time may use a majority should they have one to make the north more Irish in it's symbolism. I think though that when a UI happens it will be to the material advantage of a majority in both parts of Ireland and may even be within a unified "British Isles". The problem now facing SF and to a lesser extent the SDLP is to define a vision of Ireland that works for all, that makes people better off and guarantees them a future. Even a lot of Unionists would go for that. Again as an Irishman I would be more concerned with the use of Unionist symbols and flags to represent the North, I wouldn't want new flags or symbols but recognition given to my political and cultural identity on an equal basis. I could probably live with that within the union, until the time for unity was right. There in lies a challenge to the Unionist population can you reach out?

[Eamonnca1]

It's over, you've lost, come back to us again in 2116... 

Sorry to interrupt yer gloating but how are you getting on with your efforts to march down the Garvaghy Rd this weather?