The Luke "Ming" Flanagan Thread

[lynchbhoy]

muppet - the idea of unions are great- in practice, I know that the unions (or some of them) in Ireland are a fecking disaster- worse than the unscrupulous employers.
eg the unions that rep chippies and brickies don't want to know about this scenario - even if the person fired/let go was full time employee -the unions would rather not waste their time on individual cases. they turn into fat cats.
personal family knowledge of these btw!!

so after seeing how they operate and seeing the people they let down, ive no time for most of them in this country.
that's imo.

[muppet]

muppet - the idea of unions are great- in practice, I know that the unions (or some of them) in Ireland are a fecking disaster- worse than the unscrupulous employers.
eg the unions that rep chippies and brickies don't want to know about this scenario - even if the person fired/let go was full time employee -the unions would rather not waste their time on individual cases. they turn into fat cats.
personal family knowledge of these btw!!

so after seeing how they operate and seeing the people they let down, ive no time for most of them in this country.
that's imo.

Believe me, I am not an advocate for unions. And I was a rep. Most are self-serving beyond belief. But it you have no choice.........

[lynchbhoy]

muppet - the idea of unions are great- in practice, I know that the unions (or some of them) in Ireland are a fecking disaster- worse than the unscrupulous employers.
eg the unions that rep chippies and brickies don't want to know about this scenario - even if the person fired/let go was full time employee -the unions would rather not waste their time on individual cases. they turn into fat cats.
personal family knowledge of these btw!!

so after seeing how they operate and seeing the people they let down, ive no time for most of them in this country.
that's imo.

Believe me, I am not an advocate for unions. And I was a rep. Most are self-serving beyond belief. But it you have no choice.........

yep ! a great idea...but ineffectual or corrupt in this country

[Lar Naparka]

You'll get some information on the Greyhound strike here.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0717/631390-greyhound-strike/

A demonstration is taking place in Dublin city centre in support of Greyhound workers in their month-long strike over pay.

The protest is at the offices of an employment company on Dawson Street which supplies agency staff to collect bins.

Workers have refused to accept pay cuts of up to 35% in order for them to return to work.

Greyhound has called on workers to return to talks at the Labour Relations Commission.

Meanwhile, Independent TD Joan Collins has rejected allegations from Greyhound that she incited illegal acts at another protest earlier this week.

The deputy said she strenuously denied this, adding that while she was involved in the protest, it was entirely peaceful and within the law.

She is calling on the company to retract its claims and apologise.

[macdanger2]

It is illegal to be fired and replaced by cheaper employment. If your fixed term contract has ended that is a different issue.

The first thing you learn is how to fight properly.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1114/69721-irishferries/

While I take your point on Irish Ferries the problem is that if you are an individual or very small numbers you don't have the collective power to fight this. Unions don't really give a toss about individuals (oh sh*t - i'm not trying to start another thread) as they are already cosy with governments, so really - you're on your own unless you are prepared to lose even more going the court routes, which most sane individuals will not do.

Most take the point of view that they will get another decent paid job soon. and they wait. and they wait. and they leave the country or take some demeaning job which puts them in a far worse position and makes them really struggle to keep their head above water.

It's pretty sad to see (hence my standpoint on immigration). I'm sure everyone knows someone in this situation.

I agree with the overall thrust of your argument fox but I completely disagree with your viewpoint on immigration. The problem is not workers from another country but employers in this country - Irish men and women - and this is where the govt needs to have better legislation.

[muppet]

You'll get some information on the Greyhound strike here.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0717/631390-greyhound-strike/

A demonstration is taking place in Dublin city centre in support of Greyhound workers in their month-long strike over pay.

The protest is at the offices of an employment company on Dawson Street which supplies agency staff to collect bins.

Workers have refused to accept pay cuts of up to 35% in order for them to return to work.

Greyhound has called on workers to return to talks at the Labour Relations Commission.

Meanwhile, Independent TD Joan Collins has rejected allegations from Greyhound that she incited illegal acts at another protest earlier this week.

The deputy said she strenuously denied this, adding that while she was involved in the protest, it was entirely peaceful and within the law.

She is calling on the company to retract its claims and apologise.

This could just be a clever sound-byte from Greyhound, but are the workers refusing to go to the LRC?

[Lar Naparka]

You'll get some information on the Greyhound strike here.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0717/631390-greyhound-strike/

A demonstration is taking place in Dublin city centre in support of Greyhound workers in their month-long strike over pay.

The protest is at the offices of an employment company on Dawson Street which supplies agency staff to collect bins.

Workers have refused to accept pay cuts of up to 35% in order for them to return to work.

Greyhound has called on workers to return to talks at the Labour Relations Commission.

Meanwhile, Independent TD Joan Collins has rejected allegations from Greyhound that she incited illegal acts at another protest earlier this week.

The deputy said she strenuously denied this, adding that while she was involved in the protest, it was entirely peaceful and within the law.

She is calling on the company to retract its claims and apologise.

This could just be a clever sound-byte from Greyhound, but are the workers refusing to go to the LRC?

Ah, it's too complicated for me to get the whole story but the workers it seems are members of SIPTU and Greyhound got a temporary injunction against 60 workers and their union, preventing them from interfering with lorries etc going in and out of the recycling plant.
From today's Irish Times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/high-court-grants-injunction-over-greyhound-waste-dispute-1.1835800

High Court grants injunction over Greyhound waste dispute
Company says it regrets unofficial industrial action by collection crews in Dublin

The High Court has granted a temporary injunction preventing workers blocking trucks entering and leaving a premises of a waste disposal company that collects 110,000 household's bins in Dublin.
The court heard the workers placed a blockade outside Greyhound Recycling's depot in Clondalkin, Dublin as part of a dispute with their employer over pay.
The company claims the unofficial action is illegal and sought the orders after one person was injured after being struck by a bin lorry.
Today at the High Court Mr Justice Max Barrett granted the company a temporary injunction preventing sixty
Greyhound employees, the trade union Siptu (which represents Greyhound's workers) and anyone who has notice of the orders from interfering with access and egress from the plant.
The order was granted on an ex parte basis (where only one side was represented in court).
The matter was adjourned to Thursday of this week. Earlier the judge remarked after viewing video footage of the protest that the workers' actions seemed "perfectly peaceful".
Seeking the injunctions , barrister Louis McEntaggart BL for Greyhound said the blockade commenced at Greyhound's depot early this morning when workers stood in front of lorries trying to enter and leave the facility at Knockmitten Lane, Clondalkin.
Cars were parked in a manner that was hindering bin trucks from getting in and out of the facility, counsel said.
Greyhound has a contract to collected 110,000 bins per week from households in Dublin.
As a result of the blockade, which the company says is unlawful and were contrary to the 1990 Industrial Relations Act, no collections were made today, he said.
Drivers of the bin lorries who attempted to get in and out of the depot were subject to intimidation by the protesters, counsel said.
The company had a major concern about health and safety. Already one person involved in the blockade was injured after being struck by a truck, counsel said Counsel said it also had concerns that what was occurring has been "mischaracterised" on social media.
The dispute had been called a lock out of workers on Facebook. Counsel said this was not the case, and that any employee who wished to return to work was perfectly entitled to do so.
Counsel said the workers action has arisen in a dispute over workers pay. It is accepted there is a trade dispute between Greyhound and its employees on the issue, which had gone before both the Labour Court and the Labour Relations Committee, counsel said.
Workers had held a meeting about the company's restructuring plans last weekend. The company did not know the outcome of that meeting. While industrial action was on the agenda at the meeting Greyhound was not given any prior notice of any industrial action.

[muppet]

Greyhound claim it is unofficial industrial action.

If that is the case then is precisely how not to fight.

If they comply with the straightforward requirements of the 1990 Industrial Relations Act, then there would be no injunction. Unless of course they want to strike, but for whatever reason SIPTU or whoever is stopping them.

But unofficial industrial action is dangerous as the strikers can be sued for any losses incurred.

[foxcommander]

I agree with the overall thrust of your argument fox but I completely disagree with your viewpoint on immigration. The problem is not workers from another country but employers in this country - Irish men and women - and this is where the govt needs to have better legislation.

I know what I sound like but I've taken the viewpoint from my childhood of trying to support your fellow Irishman where possible (starting with buying Guaranteed Irish copy books at school). Maybe the notion of our country's/GAA ideals have disappeared into the cesspit Ireland is becoming.

If it wasn't so easy for employers to discard their irish/EU workers we wouldn't have an issue, especially if they were offered a fair (and I don't mean astronomical) wage in relation to the job they do.
I despise those who have exploited their workers just to add a few extra thousand in the bank for themselves when they have more than enough.

[macdanger2]

I agree with the overall thrust of your argument fox but I completely disagree with your viewpoint on immigration. The problem is not workers from another country but employers in this country - Irish men and women - and this is where the govt needs to have better legislation.

I know what I sound like but I've taken the viewpoint from my childhood of trying to support your fellow Irishman where possible (starting with buying Guaranteed Irish copy books at school). Maybe the notion of our country's/GAA ideals have disappeared into the cesspit Ireland is becoming.

If it wasn't so easy for employers to discard their irish/EU workers we wouldn't have an issue, especially if they were offered a fair (and I don't mean astronomical) wage in relation to the job they do.
I despise those who have exploited their workers just to add a few extra thousand in the bank for themselves when they have more than enough.

If you consider the motivations of those involved, the non-Irish worker who (allegedly) undercuts an Irish worker to get money to feed his family and the Irish business owner who (allegedly) exploits foreign workers when he's unlikely to be on the breadline. I know which group I'd have more sympathy for.

Personally I believe in solidarity with your fellow human beings above solidarity with EU nationals alone

[foxcommander]

Personally I believe in solidarity with your fellow human beings above solidarity with EU nationals alone

Good luck with that. I'm sure it will be reciprocated.

[macdanger2]

Personally I believe in solidarity with your fellow human beings above solidarity with EU nationals alone

Good luck with that. I'm sure it will be reciprocated.

No more or less than your "support for my fellow Irishmen" I'll wager

[foxcommander]

Personally I believe in solidarity with your fellow human beings above solidarity with EU nationals alone

Good luck with that. I'm sure it will be reciprocated.

No more or less than your "support for my fellow Irishmen" I'll wager

Yes, we're a right shower of jealous petty begrudging small-minded retards 

But I can dream that one day collectively we'll get off our high horses and put that aside to build a proper country that is run for the benefit of the irish people. That our families will return to the shores with the prospect of having a decent standard of living.

[Lar Naparka]

I agree with the overall thrust of your argument fox but I completely disagree with your viewpoint on immigration. The problem is not workers from another country but employers in this country - Irish men and women - and this is where the govt needs to have better legislation.

I know what I sound like but I've taken the viewpoint from my childhood of trying to support your fellow Irishman where possible (starting with buying Guaranteed Irish copy books at school). Maybe the notion of our country's/GAA ideals have disappeared into the cesspit Ireland is becoming.

If it wasn't so easy for employers to discard their irish/EU workers we wouldn't have an issue, especially if they were offered a fair (and I don't mean astronomical) wage in relation to the job they do.
I despise those who have exploited their workers just to add a few extra thousand in the bank for themselves when they have more than enough.

If you consider the motivations of those involved, the non-Irish worker who (allegedly) undercuts an Irish worker to get money to feed his family and the Irish business owner who (allegedly) exploits foreign workers when he's unlikely to be on the breadline. I know which group I'd have more sympathy for.

Personally I believe in solidarity with your fellow human beings above solidarity with EU nationals alone

Agreed but you'll find it isn't not the majority view.
My experience is that the vast majority who are not middle class, third level educated and  don't hold down steady jobs of some sort will not agree..
Do a vox pop in a supermarket or pub or with any crowd and you'll be asked what planet you came from. I know  because I've done it.
What I find ironic, I nearly said funny, is the fact that some of those who came here in the beginning when the economy started to pick up are now up in arms about the unregulated immigration as they see it.
Those who came ten 8 to 10 years ago and who've now settled down, have education costs and mortgages etc. feel the pinch as much as the native Irish do.
I really can't blame the destitute immigrants and it's dodging the issue to blame employers for everything. Who or what allows them to flaunt the laws of the land with seeming impunity?

For justice too be done it must be seen to be done and I don't see much logic or transparency in the way immigration and work--related issues are handled here.
On the one hand, there seems to be an unregulated flow of immigrants from non-EEA countries and on the other there are those who have to wait for months and even years in places like the old Butlin's in Mosney while waiting for their claims for political asylum are being processed.

[Syferus]

Ming looks to have brought FitzMaurice home in the Roscommon by-election today. Speaks volumes to how highly he's thought of in the county that a Tuam councillor was able to win this one off the back of Ming's support.