fer fecks sake.. MING!!!??

[spuds]

Is it ok if I go have my dinner now?

Are you Jackie Healy Rae ?

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Look at the pictures and you will see why you won't be within an asses roar of government in the Republic any time soon. They are what the electorate of the Republic remember when they see the word Sinn Féin beside a candidates name.

Did you not say a few pages back that it is the people in the north living in the past and not those in the 26??

I personaly remember the atrocities of the 1980's onwards, can you remember the 1920's?

You can't remember the atrocities of the 20's either. Which probably explains why you look at that time through such rose tinted glasses.

P.S. Do you remember the british army smashing through your house, laughing as they did so, before moving on to the next house? I do.

I remember a Northerner getting sick on my doorstep singing RA songs, does that count?

[trueblue1234]

The IRA waged a campaign against the guards?

The Guards were legitimate targets, if you want to be precise

Who is doing yoir research for you?
IRA Vols were forbidden from engaging in any form of confrontation with the Guards and did not regard them as legitimate targets.

So when unarmed Guards died, that was just one of those things

It's a long way from the IRA "waging war" on the Gardaí isn't it though? And it's no more "one of those things" than unarmed victims of the Old IRA were "one of those things" when looked through the rose tinted glasses of the Mayo's of this world.

Does not legitimise it in one way, however that was the 1920's and this is 2011. You are not comparing like with like, not becasue of the activities of the Old or Provisional IRA (despite the Provos caused alot more civilian deaths) but due to the fact you would find it hard to find a FG or FF member who was involved in terrorism, I'm not so sure it would be as difficult with Sein Féin.

Also the Old IRA, Die Hards and National Army while committing heinous acts, their raison d'etre was defeat of the enemy as opposed to the Provos which seemed to be death, destruction and terror. The Provos claimed to fight for a cause, but to most people outside the rose tinted Provo family it came across as hate fueled mayhem.

But again, why are the people of the 26 counties accused by our northern cousins of living in the past, when it is clearly the people of the 6 who are obsessed about events that happened nearly a century ago. Of course I must be a Blueshirt facist because in the ever so recent 1930's  a tiny tiny tiny minority of one of the many groups that went on to form Fine Gael indulged in childish Roman salutes in an ex-army association set up to defend desenters against IRA mobs who attacked political rallies of those that dare disagree with them, while Dev used the National Army to protect his party followers and left the rest at the mercy of the RA.

I'd say it was the above highlighted line that got NS back up. As the majority of attacks were on the British security forces it could be argued that they were equally as involved at defeating the enemy as the "old IRA". Therefore it would be hard to accept the acts of one  and not the other.

[Nally Stand]

Look at the pictures and you will see why you won't be within an asses roar of government in the Republic any time soon. They are what the electorate of the Republic remember when they see the word Sinn Féin beside a candidates name.

Did you not say a few pages back that it is the people in the north living in the past and not those in the 26??

I personaly remember the atrocities of the 1980's onwards, can you remember the 1920's?

You can't remember the atrocities of the 20's either. Which probably explains why you look at that time through such rose tinted glasses.

P.S. Do you remember the british army smashing through your house, laughing as they did so, before moving on to the next house? I do.

I remember a Northerner getting sick on my doorstep singing RA songs, does that count?

Yes, that is much much worse than armed foreign soldiers laughing as they smash up your family home, and then move on to your neighbours. Much worse. You must have spent minutes cleaning up that vomit?

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

The IRA waged a campaign against the guards?

The Guards were legitimate targets, if you want to be precise

Who is doing yoir research for you?
IRA Vols were forbidden from engaging in any form of confrontation with the Guards and did not regard them as legitimate targets.

So when unarmed Guards died, that was just one of those things

It's a long way from the IRA "waging war" on the Gardaí isn't it though? And it's no more "one of those things" than unarmed victims of the Old IRA were "one of those things" when looked through the rose tinted glasses of the Mayo's of this world.

Does not legitimise it in one way, however that was the 1920's and this is 2011. You are not comparing like with like, not becasue of the activities of the Old or Provisional IRA (despite the Provos caused alot more civilian deaths) but due to the fact you would find it hard to find a FG or FF member who was involved in terrorism, I'm not so sure it would be as difficult with Sein Féin.

Also the Old IRA, Die Hards and National Army while committing heinous acts, their raison d'etre was defeat of the enemy as opposed to the Provos which seemed to be death, destruction and terror. The Provos claimed to fight for a cause, but to most people outside the rose tinted Provo family it came across as hate fueled mayhem.

But again, why are the people of the 26 counties accused by our northern cousins of living in the past, when it is clearly the people of the 6 who are obsessed about events that happened nearly a century ago. Of course I must be a Blueshirt facist because in the ever so recent 1930's  a tiny tiny tiny minority of one of the many groups that went on to form Fine Gael indulged in childish Roman salutes in an ex-army association set up to defend desenters against IRA mobs who attacked political rallies of those that dare disagree with them, while Dev used the National Army to protect his party followers and left the rest at the mercy of the RA.

I'd say it was the above highlighted line that got NS back up. As the majority of attacks were on the British security forces it could be argued that they were equally as involved at defeating the enemy as the "old IRA". Therefore it would be hard to accept the acts of one  and not the other.

Ya didn't really come across that way to the rest us. Talk about him being allowed to read stuff into things, but he harangues me for 5 or 6 pages for the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64lBTR8JxUc   

[AZOffaly]

And this has what to do with Ming now? Jaysus, this is an all time record tangent.

Blueshirts and Shinners can't see eye to eye shocker. I hope we don't have a thread for all of these 'discussions' 

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

And this has what to do with Ming now? Jaysus, this is an all time record tangent.

Blueshirts and Shinners can't see eye to eye shocker. I hope we don't have a thread for all of these 'discussions' 

Now now AZOffaly, I can't call them Sein Féin-I.R.A. but you can call me a Blueshirt,    You obviously had the good sense to avoid reading the thread.

[seafoid]

A great post by Ed Moloney 
http://thebrokenelbow.com/

Sinn Fein would have to grow and develop – and be led – like a normal political party. The problem for Sinn Fein is that it is not a normal political party. It came to life as an offshoot of the IRA and it continues to behave, particularly in the way it handles its internal affairs, as an offshoot of the IRA, where obedience to an all-controlling leadership comes before all else.
The symptoms of this were visible in the years after the 2007 electoral setback with a series of resignations from party ranks in both parts of Ireland – perhaps twenty in all – and most damagingly in Dublin. Perhaps the most telling of these was the defection of Dublin councillor Killian Forde to the Labour Party in January 2010, a rising star who many predicted would go far. He chose his words carefully when he resigned but their import was unmistakable:

"The leadership of the party appeared to not recognise or were unwilling to accept that changes are long overdue. These changes were essential to transform the party into one that values discussions, accommodates dissent and promotes merit over loyalty and obedience. It is only logical that if you disagree with the direction of the party and are unable to change it there is no option but to leave."

He didn't put a name to the problem but we all know who he was talking about. Last week Gerry Adams was chosen as leader of the new, expanded Sinn Fein group in the Dail, replacing the dull but dependable Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin. He was picked for the job in the same way as Sadam Hussein was in Iraq, Hosni Mubarak in Egypt and Josef Stalin in Soviet Russia, with no rival or dissent worthy of the name and success absolutely assured. His selection has to be ratified by the Sinn Fein Ard Comhairle and it surely will be, as all his wishes have been.

[AZOffaly]

Seafoid? Do we really want another 'normal' political party? I think the normal parties are hardly the templates for the ideal political system. (I realise I'm sounding like I'm defending Sinn Féin here).

[trueblue1234]

A great post by Ed Moloney 
http://thebrokenelbow.com/

Sinn Fein would have to grow and develop – and be led – like a normal political party. The problem for Sinn Fein is that it is not a normal political party. It came to life as an offshoot of the IRA and it continues to behave, particularly in the way it handles its internal affairs, as an offshoot of the IRA, where obedience to an all-controlling leadership comes before all else.
The symptoms of this were visible in the years after the 2007 electoral setback with a series of resignations from party ranks in both parts of Ireland – perhaps twenty in all – and most damagingly in Dublin. Perhaps the most telling of these was the defection of Dublin councillor Killian Forde to the Labour Party in January 2010, a rising star who many predicted would go far. He chose his words carefully when he resigned but their import was unmistakable:

"The leadership of the party appeared to not recognise or were unwilling to accept that changes are long overdue. These changes were essential to transform the party into one that values discussions, accommodates dissent and promotes merit over loyalty and obedience. It is only logical that if you disagree with the direction of the party and are unable to change it there is no option but to leave."

He didn't put a name to the problem but we all know who he was talking about. Last week Gerry Adams was chosen as leader of the new, expanded Sinn Fein group in the Dail, replacing the dull but dependable Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin. He was picked for the job in the same way as Sadam Hussein was in Iraq, Hosni Mubarak in Egypt and Josef Stalin in Soviet Russia, with no rival or dissent worthy of the name and success absolutely assured. His selection has to be ratified by the Sinn Fein Ard Comhairle and it surely will be, as all his wishes have been.

Great post my eye. It could be completely reversed by someone who wanted to defend SF. They could highlight the strong leadership, lack of friction between members etc as a strength of SF.

Then to link Hussein, Mubarak and Stalin with SF on such a weak point just looks agenda driven.

[Nally Stand]

When it comes to writing an impartial analysis of SF I wouldn't pay much heed on Ed. His "parallels" of Adams with Mubarak and Sadam Hussein says it all as far as his view is concerned. And dragging back the long gone issue of Killian Forde? Honestly! And Forde was just another careerist politician who saw a better pasture in Labour (whom he moved to after claiming that SF were moving to much to the centre - there's logic for you) and who despite having been elected as a SF Councillor, then refused to vacate his seat, won on a SF ticket. I hope this heroic leftist is happy in bed with FG now.

[seafoid]

AZ

I think obergrupperführer McDowell might be looking into starting something new  There may be a big reshaping of politics now that FF is toast.  If Labour arse up being in Government there may be some interesting stuff happening on the left.
I agree that the 3 main parties don't have much to offer but let's see how the new Government gets on.

The SF organisational model is out of date. They do have some interesting policies though.

[Billys Boots]

Yes, Moloney has a 'history' with the Republican movement, in much the same way as Nally Stand has a 'history' with the British Army.  Is Moloney going to be allowed to express his 'agenda-driven' thoughts on the matter, like we're expected to allow Nally Stand to do? 

[Nally Stand]

Yes, Moloney has a 'history' with the Republican movement, in much the same way as Nally Stand has a 'history' with the British Army.  Is Moloney going to be allowed to express his 'agenda-driven' thoughts on the matter, like we're expected to allow Nally Stand to do?

Of course he is allowed, I am openly pro-SF. I am merely highlighting that what Seafoid refers to as a good article, is one written by a man with a vested anti SF agenda.

(Oh and you still haven't answered my previous question  )

[Puckoon]

Interesting name for the blog he wrote that piece on. Broken elbow. Hmmm.