Paddy O'Rourke Out!

[PAULD123]

The team were to a man determined to win, I don't believe that was down to Paddy. I also don't believe that they will maintain it. So when Armagh lose, Paddy will once again be vilified.

In truth Down came back and got a point ahead. If we had got a lucky break at that point (Hearty slip, dropped ball in defence, a lucky bounce) things could suddenly have changed and Paddy would now be under bigger pressure than ever. Armagh deserved to win but one (undeserved) lucky break could have swung it in our favour.

Paddy is far from out of the woods yet, unless he gets Armagh to an AI semi as a minimum I expect Armagh fans will be disappointed and if he fails to get to a quarter final they will be calling for his head.

(Probably correctly so)

[whitegoodman]

So u believe that the teams motivation had nothing to do with O Rourke??

U also believe that if Armagh win an Ulster title and are then beaten in the quarter final by say the losers of Kerry and Cork that Armagh supporters will be disappointed??

ABSOLUTE NONSENSE

All this stuff about lucky bounce or dropped balls is also a waste of time.  U could say that about virtually in match in the country.  Jes Down could have been beaten several times last year if ur thinking like that, would that have made wee James a poor manager or a bluffer as u like to call POR!!!!

The facts are that down were beaten by the better team on the day due to a fitter, more motivated and more tactically aware Armagh side and POR should be given some sort of credit for this and at least as much as mcgrane or mcconville who havnt  been involved in the setup longer than a wet wkend.

[PAULD123]

So u believe that the teams motivation had nothing to do with O Rourke??

U also believe that if Armagh win an Ulster title and are then beaten in the quarter final by say the losers of Kerry and Cork that Armagh supporters will be disappointed??

ABSOLUTE NONSENSE

All this stuff about lucky bounce or dropped balls is also a waste of time.  U could say that about virtually in match in the country.  Jes Down could have been beaten several times last year if ur thinking like that, would that have made wee James a poor manager or a bluffer as u like to call POR!!!!

The facts are that down were beaten by the better team on the day due to a fitter, more motivated and more tactically aware Armagh side and POR should be given some sort of credit for this and at least as much as mcgrane or mcconville who havnt  been involved in the setup longer than a wet wkend.

He didn't have them motivated before so why now? Yes I do believe that the motivation came from within and not from the bench. The players have been slated and written off by the media and I believe the reaction was their own. No point saying it is absolute nonsense because neither of us know how much on an influence POR  had. I have my opinion, you have yours and until it can be shown either way neither can be labelled nonesense in nice big captial letters.

Because we all know that if you put stuff in capitals it suddenly makes them more correct and true!!!!

[Applesisapples]

None but I'm not claiming to be able to do the same job as por ffs. Maybe the armagh county board should look here for their next manager saying as there are so many experts on here

At the end of the day, you lot got rid of POR as your manager because he wasn't able to make anything of the county side and the rumours and stories from Down were legend about his tactical abilities, coaching and the physical training.  So don't come out now and make out that he was one of Down's greatest coaches/managers.  he was one of a number of your AI winning sides who gave Down management a go and couldn't pull them out of the mire.  It would appear that the light at the end of tunnel with wee James may well just be another train coming straight down the line.

In fairness even God couldn't have done any thing with the panel POR had in Down.

[Applesisapples]

Take Your Points all he has done with yous boys is win a game against Down . No one said he was a great coach or manager if they did they didnt follow Down when he was manager . We couldnt wait to get rid of him just like all you boys until saturday night now he seems to be a folk hero with you all

No one is saying that. Most Armagh fans wanted him out from the start. Some such as myself had doubts which weren't helped by the Championship performances of last year and league this year. Many again attributed the overly defensive strategy to Donal Murtagh's influence. However if Saturday marks a return to last years league in terms of style and performance then POR deserves credit.

[mackers]

I could have stood on the sideline and waved both arms in urging the players forward and they would still have won so long as I had an experienced conditioning coach, an AI winning manager to coach the defence and give advice and the services of two of Armagh's most experienced and best players of the last twenty years available to coach the forwards and the midfield.

There is still a chaotic approach to the overall management but the combination of all those present was more than enough to put on a great display and hammer the old enemy.

In fairness TYP is it not good management to surround yourself with good coaches and advisers?  Don't get me wrong I'm not 100% convinced by him myself but we have to give him credit where credit is due. He has always preached about letting players express themselves and that's exactly what he did on Saturday night.  For too long in Armagh we have paralysed ourselves with defensive tactics. Is it an accident that our HF line played well when they were free of the overly defensive tactics?
He was correctly criticised during the League for a lack of cohesive forward play and that seems to have been addressed with Oisin coming in.
I'm not saying we are finished article and the jury is still out but to dismiss POR's input from Saturday night's win is OTT.

[Orangemac]

No one is saying that. Most Armagh fans wanted him out from the start. Some such as myself had doubts which weren't helped by the Championship performances of last year and league this year. Many again attributed the overly defensive strategy to Donal Murtagh's influence. However if Saturday marks a return to last years league in terms of style and performance then POR deserves credit.

Last years performances v Dublin and Monaghan were depressing,2 forwards in the oppositions half of the field and rugby style lateral handpassing.

If Armagh continue to play like they did on Saturday with a half forward line, fast kick passing out of defence and evidence of a game plan then I expect most supporters will be happy enough. Short of winning Ulster or reaching an AI semi final POR may not convince many of his doubters but Saturday has set the benchmark for future performances.

[Fuzzman]

Great to read the positive responses to the return of attacking football from Armagh.
I know its easier to admit this after you've just won (AGAIN) over yer big rivals.

I know for a while all the talk was about "I'd rather won ugly than lose every year" but with so many teams playing with this win at all costs attitude then our game was really becoming a horrible negative game to watch.
I hate to say Spillane was right but there was far too much emphasis but on stopping the other teams from scoring or having any space.

As a neutral I still don't think PoR has the makings of a great manager and is too dependant on those around him. However, I know its only one game but you could see the Armagh players seem to have a new lease of life and enjoyed playing for the jersey again.

[PAULD123]

A lot of people both Armagh and Down who went to the game have said that they expect Armagh to lose to Derry. I have to say I don't see it myself but then again I am not familiar with Derry this season.

If it does happen then paddy will be under pressure again. It will be interesting to see if Armagh can produce a similar performance to Saturday's in their next game. A lot of people have said to me that they don't think they can. For the record, I personally see no reason why they can't.

Though one reason may be that Derry will probably have a better midfield than ours, which was pretty terrible.

[naka]

A lot of people both Armagh and Down who went to the game have said that they expect Armagh to lose to Derry. I have to say I don't see it myself but then again I am not familiar with Derry this season.

Paul most of the guys i have been speaking to think we will go to an Ulster final, I for one can`t see us losing to Derry but it will be tough. The down game has taken these guys on a fair way not just in the manner of the victory but the belief that they are a decent side (which a lot didnt have )
Training is really on the up 

[Applesisapples]

Great to read the positive responses to the return of attacking football from Armagh.
I know its easier to admit this after you've just won (AGAIN) over yer big rivals.

I know for a while all the talk was about "I'd rather won ugly than lose every year" but with so many teams playing with this win at all costs attitude then our game was really becoming a horrible negative game to watch.
I hate to say Spillane was right but there was far too much emphasis but on stopping the other teams from scoring or having any space.

As a neutral I still don't think PoR has the makings of a great manager and is too dependant on those around him. However, I know its only one game but you could see the Armagh players seem to have a new lease of life and enjoyed playing for the jersey again.

As an O'Rourke sceptic I would disagree with the point on relying on backroom staff, the sign of a good manager is picking the right people to advise. I think the main difference this year has been the use of McGrane and McConville. I know Donal Murtagh was successful with Cross but his influence produced the over defensive game plan we witnessed last year. I'm still a sceptic but we'll see after Derry whether POR is going to prove us all wrong.
As an aside I would rather we stayed positive and lost to Derry and continue to develop this style of play tahn revert to type and win only to be demolished in an Ulster final. Down and Cork in this years league and the championship games fro last year prove that we can't play the defensive blanket to any great effect.

[our_fella]

PAULD123

you talk some absolute tripe. having spoken to a member of the starting 15 from Saturday, he assured me that POR was hell-bent on beating Down and made that very clear during each training session. And to question why only now is he motivating? How would you know? Ask any Armagh fan, their main aim for this year was to stay up, and POR achieved that without the services of the Cross contingent.

[BarryBreensBandage]

All this talk about Armagh being crap - what do you reckon the 1st round score will be?
Do you seriously reckon Armagh will be trounced? Do you think Paddy O'Rourke or the players will let that happen?
I reckon three to four in it, but I honestly can't say which team will win.
Down stuffed Armagh last year in the Marshes, yet Armagh made them look very ordinary in the final.

I refer to my quote above from earlier on in the year, so can say that I wasn't that surprised on Saturday night, still felt like dung though.

The defeats to the main teams in the league should have been a wake up call to the management regarding defence.

[Applesisapples]

All this talk about Armagh being crap - what do you reckon the 1st round score will be?
Do you seriously reckon Armagh will be trounced? Do you think Paddy O'Rourke or the players will let that happen?
I reckon three to four in it, but I honestly can't say which team will win.
Down stuffed Armagh last year in the Marshes, yet Armagh made them look very ordinary in the final.

I refer to my quote above from earlier on in the year, so can say that I wasn't that surprised on Saturday night, still felt like dung though.

The defeats to the main teams in the league should have been a wake up call to the management regarding defence.

Saturday put paid to the myth that Armagh do not have the players to compete at the highest level. So it's now up to Paddy and Co to prove that they are up to it too.

[haveaharp]

All this talk about Armagh being crap - what do you reckon the 1st round score will be?
Do you seriously reckon Armagh will be trounced? Do you think Paddy O'Rourke or the players will let that happen?
I reckon three to four in it, but I honestly can't say which team will win.
Down stuffed Armagh last year in the Marshes, yet Armagh made them look very ordinary in the final.

I refer to my quote above from earlier on in the year, so can say that I wasn't that surprised on Saturday night, still felt like dung though.

The defeats to the main teams in the league should have been a wake up call to the management regarding defence.

Saturday put paid to the myth that Armagh do not have the players to compete at the highest level. So it's now up to Paddy and Co to prove that they are up to it too.

That's based on the assumption that Down are at / somewhere near / the highest level. I'm not convinced.