Down V Armagh - Newry 26th Feb

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Despite not having been at the match and having only watched the first half on TV, I'll still make a few points;

A one point defeat to last year's All Ireland finalists away from home is far from a disgraceful result.

Down looked much the better side in the first half.

Many on this board are all happy to indulge in lazy personal sterotypes about amatuer footballers.

Down appear to be more natural confident and natural on the ball than us. I refuse to believe this is down to genetics.

Fundamentally our problems tonight appear to have lain in the same difficulty that has haunted us for the past 5 years - if Stevie doesn't do it who will?

There are numerous individuals within our own county who are at least "one point" a better manager than the current imcumbent

They have to come to the Cathedral City the next time.

We might well have Jamie Clarke and Ronan available at the Athletic Grounds.

Up the orchard!

[mountainboii]

From an Armagh point of view, thought that match was pretty much in line with the league so far. A few good things, plenty of shite. Down were probably a few points the better team, seeming to find scoring opportunities much easier. They work harder, have more pace and look better drilled.

Thought McEvoy did alright. McKeever did a decent job on Clarke. Dyas was reasonable. Midfield competed well, but there were longs spells when Down had the upperhand in the breaking ball stakes. McDonnell had a few moments. Swift contributed at times too but suffered from being shifted about.

But I also thought a lot of the defence struggled. Mallon and Duffy were poor. Donaghy was rounded a bit too easily for a couple of scores near the end. Moriarty wasn't very impressive either. Forward play was desperate too for the most part. Grugan and O'Rourke had stinkers, nothing stuck with either. Mallon had a decent opening half hour but literally did not touch the ball for the 25 minutes before he went off. Padden does some decent things but seems very limited, stamina seems to be an issue too. Just still too dependent on McDonnell.

Depressing to be moaning about the management as usual but changes were made disappointingly slowly again. The time to hook off Mallon, O'Rourke and Grugan was when we were a point up and pressing hard, not fifteen minutes later after Down had regained the momentum and the lead.

The Cross lads will obviously add something to us for the summer, but there are problems in the half forwards and on the line that they won't make much difference to.

[Throw ball]

Down were alot better than this time last year and was very impressed. On saying that if they are as good as some Down people think they should be beating an Armagh team with so many players missing and Stevie missing more than normal much handier than this. The defence has been criticised but to keep a potent forward line as good as Down's to 12 points with a non existent half forward line unable to help is no mean feat. I think the whole full back line got yellow cards as a result of being unable to cope with the speed of overlapping players - desperation rather than dirt for our Down posters. Again if Swift or Stevie didn't show for the ball no one did.
As for the point or wide for Armagh, I was in the stand and it was never a point.
I think Grugan will be a great player but he found Down's physical players to much tonight. Before the Dublin game I though the best course of action would be to introduce him gradually with cameo performances in the league. I haven't really changed my mind. MOR too seemed to struggle with the physical element and if Sludden had have been ref he would have got a fortune of frees.
The one worrying thing for me was that Down seemed a lot sharper and faster both physically and mentally than Armagh. If this is due to inexperience or training I do not know - although I suspect one. Although POR will be criticised he has brought Armagh forward over the last year or so. He may not be the Messiah but he may be John the Baptist. ( A religious metaphor as it is a Sunday!)
Although Down posters will say they had players missing if I am not mistaken only Benny and Ambroise were not available for selection. Therefore those picked must currently be considered the best for now. Armagh through Cross and injuries had twelve missing. Although all would not start their presence would improve the bench also.
For the Down supporter who thought Pat gave them nothing I thought he gave Armagh nothing so he must have been fair enough.
As for those who said Armagh were dirty go catch yourself on there was no difference for either team. Down were just better at it. As for Swift, I did not seem him elbow anyone but given the off the ball abuse he got on a number of occasions anyone might lose their temper and to start calling him petty names is very childish.

[David McKeown]

I thought as a team this was one of the worst Armagh performances I'd seen over the last number of years. There were some good individual performances however that saved the result from being a disaster. The performance as a team was shocking. Very little creativity and no real game plan. Coming out with the ball on numerous occasions no one bar maybe Paul Duffy was showing for the ball, there was no running off the shoulder and the forwards didn't seem to know whether the ball would be in high or in front. In the first half defenders seemed to be marking space instead of their men and only reacted when the ball was on the way to a free man. In attack I lost count of the number of times Armagh gave the ball to an attacker who was surrounded by three men. All that said Down are decent side but they aren't great and will need to improve a lot to get back to last years level IMO.

As for McEaneney I am far from a fan and last nights performance did nothing to change my mind.

As to the substitutions, to me they seemed like they were scripted in advance of the game and not reactionary at all. I've said it before that I think Armagh are a couple of years away from being a very good team but they need a better manager to get there.

[Groucho]

I dont feel too dispondent after that for some reason. A game that could have gone any way a serious amount of misses on both sides.

A few positives, I thought we bossed MF from start to finish, Toner and Vernon had great games and look to be settling in as a formidable pairing, some top drawer defending (and some woeful defending). I was in the stand on Armagh's 50 for the first half and I have to say i've never seen Paul Duffy play a worse half of football, totally cleaned by Danny Hughes, to be fair to him he bucked up in the second half. I said last week that i thought Armagh's HB line was our weakest line, a bit of an improvement but still watery looking and porous at times.

Some poor decision making again form the line, I've read there posters giving off about not making changes quick enough, but I was of the opinion that there shouldn't have been any changes bar Lavery coming on - every other subsitution weakened us. It's a year (or 2) too early for Grugan - far too light. Would never have took Brian Mallon off, i thought he looked very dangerous. Stevie missed a few chances as well but gave Dan Gordon all sorts of headaches.

Very apparent that Down have so much more speed in their team, but they also seem sharper and more aware, Armagh were very laboured looking at times, no speed of thought.

Championship will be interesting, certainly both teams will hold no fear of the other. If we could get Jamie and Ronan Clarke in that forward line we'd be well fit for most teams, Still work to be done in the HB line and still a need for a CHF, thought MOR did very little this evening.

Marty Clarke was very good, thought McKeever on him did well too thou.

Mallon never touched the ball in the second half.

Boss midfield all day long if you want but useless if you can't translate the possession into scores. Also Down looked a lot fitter than Armagh.

[bennydorano]

We brought on 4 subs, 2 of them didn't physically touch a ball, they weakened us immeasurably.  We did the exact  same in a Mckenna cup match, thats why I would've left Mallon on( aside from the fact that he has more to offer than the boys that came on). I'd imagine he came off as he's had a niggly injury as well & maybe wasn't 100%

[fan01]

Some strange posts on here tonight , IMO thought we were very comfortable biggest 1 point win I've seen in a while . Armagh tried to play football in the first half but reverted to type in second turning up the physical stakes which in the past we would have been unable to cope with. We hit 3/4 uprights , post , and created 3/4 goal chances . A glance at the benches was the biggest difference however , I wonder how Armagh would have dealt with stevie pulling out minutes before throw in . Others have pointed to cross players and R Clarke missing , true but we started the match missing benny , ambrose , d raff , dan mc cartan and p mc comiskey. Lastly I thought c mc keever was the biggest w**nker on the Armagh but I think he has a rival in g swift .

there is only one w**nker playin last night and that has to be the so called Marty Clarke, Mckeever done enough to keep him at bay.  What about the down no.11 kneeling on finnian Moriaty neck...the red and black tinted glasses was on when this report was written.

[Dubh driocht]

Some strange posts on here tonight , IMO thought we were very comfortable biggest 1 point win I've seen in a while . Armagh tried to play football in the first half but reverted to type in second turning up the physical stakes which in the past we would have been unable to cope with. We hit 3/4 uprights , post , and created 3/4 goal chances . A glance at the benches was the biggest difference however , I wonder how Armagh would have dealt with stevie pulling out minutes before throw in . Others have pointed to cross players and R Clarke missing , true but we started the match missing benny , ambrose , d raff , dan mc cartan and p mc comiskey. Lastly I thought c mc keever was the biggest w**nker on the Armagh but I think he has a rival in g swift .

there is only one w**nker playin last night and that has to be the so called Marty Clarke, Mckeever done enough to keep him at bay.  What about the down no.11 kneeling on finnian Moriaty neck...the red and black tinted glasses was on when this report was written.

fan01, the reason he is the so called Marty Clarke is because that is his name. I will say that again for you. That is his name.
I don't think anyone needs to say anything else to you

[fan01]

Some strange posts on here tonight , IMO thought we were very comfortable biggest 1 point win I've seen in a while . Armagh tried to play football in the first half but reverted to type in second turning up the physical stakes which in the past we would have been unable to cope with. We hit 3/4 uprights , post , and created 3/4 goal chances . A glance at the benches was the biggest difference however , I wonder how Armagh would have dealt with stevie pulling out minutes before throw in . Others have pointed to cross players and R Clarke missing , true but we started the match missing benny , ambrose , d raff , dan mc cartan and p mc comiskey. Lastly I thought c mc keever was the biggest w**nker on the Armagh but I think he has a rival in g swift .

there is only one w**nker playin last night and that has to be the so called Marty Clarke, Mckeever done enough to keep him at bay.  What about the down no.11 kneeling on finnian Moriaty neck...the red and black tinted glasses was on when this report was written.

fan01, the reason he is the so called Marty Clarke is because that is his name. I will say that again for you. That is his name.
I don't think anyone needs to say anything else to you

the same applys to our ciaran mckeever and garth swift. they are no w**nkers.

[Leo]

Deft analysis from Dubh Driocht & Mourne Rover leaves little room for more comment. However having been critical of McKernan in his last two games I take my hat off to him for  a really rumbustious and clever performance last night. I was impressed with Colgan when he came on against Galway and more so last night, looks leaner and keener, could be a big asset later in the year.
Hughes was phenomenal and showed real leadership.
But is it possible that we had one or two handpasses too many at times?
Hats off too to Down GAA and the facilities at Pairc Esler - it is a class ground.

[Sheedy]

on the night i thought down were clearly the better team and should have won by more than 1 point. bad decision making at times and some poor shooting cost us an even bigger win. big dan was immense and is really growing into the fullback role. downs subs all made decent contributions and when we get ambrose, wee dee rafferty, dan mc cartan and benny back to full fitneess there'll be some serious competion for places.

[lawnseed]

its not going to happen for por and that means he will get the road before sept. why wait i say dump him now. armagh have not improved at all, they have no method or plan, as said here the subs seem to be planned before the game even starts

[whitegoodman]

It just shows how different people see different things in matches.  I thought that was one of murtaghs best games for down.  He won every ball that went into him, uncharacteristically laid the ball off on many occassions and set up numerous chances, lavertys point and lavertys goal chance to name but 2.

Agee about big Dan, we are having a few struggles at midfield but there is no way i would take him out of FB, he provides a presence that we havnt had since the brian burns days and is surprising me with his defensive qualities.

Correct me if i am wrong but armagh would have arguable 4 (Hearty, Kearnan, Clarke and Clarke) and down would have at least 4 (McCartan, Rafferty, Rodgers, Coulter) not to mention Garvey and McCumisky to come into the starting line up for athletic grounds. 

Both Rodgers and R Clarke are in a race against time to be ready and would both needs games under their belt in the national league if either are going to have an impact come championship.

[whitegoodman]

its not going to happen for por and that means he will get the road before sept. why wait i say dump him now. armagh have not improved at all, they have no method or plan, as said here the subs seem to be planned before the game even starts

R u for real, have u ever seen this happen in county football, its not the f**king premiership. Armagh have played 3 league games, won 1 and 2 tight defeats.  I mean Jesus H Christ give the man a break. 

There are alot of armagh fans that just want to blame POR no matter what happens.  Some wanted subs brought on alot earlier and others are saying the subs made no impact and were no better than what was already on the field.  I actually think that if armagh could find a couple of break ball winners in the half forward line and a fully fit ronan clarke they would be very hard to beat as they are defensively strong and decent at midfield.  POR obviously knows that they are struggling in the half forward line as he is trying out numerous players on this line over the last year and a bit.  Is it his fault that armagh are currently struggling to churn out decent half forwards.  I mean is there half fowards in armagh club football that he is ignoring?!!?

These type of rediculous statements grind my balls!!! 

[mackers]

While I'd agree that Down were the better team they weren't as dominant as some of the Down posters or Ross Carr in his analysis on Setanta would have us believe. Our main problem continues to be our HF line. Grugan and MOR had a decent shift against Monaghan but were very poor last night. The worry would be that this will affect Grugan's confidence in the long term as he should solve this problem for us in the long term along with Nippy Swift.
We rarely supported the man in possession, in fairness it was something that Down did very well, with their HB's storming forward at every opportunity. This is something that Paul Duffy normally does well but his poor form from the Monaghan match continued.
We have to target the match in Castlebar and the home match with Galway to keep us up. C'mon Kilmacud Crokes!!